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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I think most people would like to see more experienced candidates in this post 9/11 world...
But Obama has only been a Senator for two years. If, as your surmise, most people want experience these days, why would they vote for Obama over Guiliani, McCain or Clinton?
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Well, not everyone can be so exalted as the left, but I'm glad you have all become content to look down on us with pitty rather than disdain.
Let me know if I can be of any more assistance.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I think most people would like to see more experienced candidates in this post 9/11 world...
But Obama has only been a Senator for two years. If, as your surmise, most people want experience these days, why would they vote for Obama over Guiliani, McCain or Clinton?
Good point. Although I would include the adulterer Guiliani in with Obama for lacking a voteing record.
Fair play!
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But Guiliani had eight years as a mayor and a number of other years as U.S. attorney. That still seems like more experience.
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Not to mention that he held an entire city together during what is (arguably) America's darkest hour....
That, and he was pretty funny that time he hosted Saturday Night Live....
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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But Obama did a thirty second bit on ESPN's Monday Night Football opening segment a week or two ago.
Between that and his two years as a junior Senator from Illinois, how can anyone say he lacks experience?
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Slightly more positive for Obama, a new poll suggests the country is a bit readier to make an African-American President than they are a woman. A Newsweek poll finds 86% of registered voters say they would back a qualified woman nominated by their party. For a black person, 93% say they would be willing to back the candidate.
The survey also found Americans think their fellow citizens still are a bit reluctant to elect either. Only 55% say the U.S. is ready to elect a woman; 56% say they can see the country selecting an African-American.
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I wouldn't have a problem electing a woman......just not Hillary.
It's a dog eat dog world & I'm wearing milkbone underwear.
I can get you a toe.
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Damn you and your lemonade!!
Booooooooooooooobs.
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This columnist argues: Barack Hussein Obama: Once a Muslim, Always A Muslimwhile Obama may not identify as a Muslim, that's not how the Arab and Muslim Streets see it. In Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim. You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim. He may think he's a Christian, but they do not.
Then, there are the other items in his background. As best-selling author Scott Turow wrote in Salon, Obama went to a Muslim school for two years in Indonesia. His mother, Anna, married an Indonesian man (likely another Muslim, as Indonesia is Muslim-dominated and has the largest Islamic population in the world).
And Obama has a "born-again" affinity for the nation of his Muslim father, Kenya, and his Kenyan sister. (Although Kenya is largely Christian, it has a fast-growing Muslim population that has engaged in a good deal of religious violence and riots against Christians. And Kenyan courts will apply Sharia law, when the participants are Muslim.) Wrote Turow:
Obama's father died in a traffic accident in Nairobi in 1982, but while Obama was working in Chicago, he met his Kenyan sister, Auma, a linguist educated in Germany who was visiting the United States. When she returned to Kenya in 1986 to teach for a year at the University of Nairobi, Obama finally made the trip to his father's homeland he had long promised himself.
There, he managed to fully embrace a heritage and a family he'd never fully known and come to terms with his father, whom he'd long regarded as an august foreign prince, but now realized was a human being burdened by his own illusions and vulnerabilities.
So, even if he identifies strongly as a Christian, and even if he despised the behavior of his father (as Obama said on Oprah); is a man who Muslims think is a Muslim, who feels some sort of psychological need to prove himself to his absent Muslim father, and who is now moving in the direction of his father's heritage, a man we want as President when we are fighting the war of our lives against Islam? Where will his loyalties be? Not sure I agree, but its an interesting read.
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You left out the last lines of the editorial:
"Is that even the man we'd want to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency, if Hillary Clinton offers him the Vice Presidential candidacy on her ticket (which he certainly wouldn't turn down)?
NO WAY, JOSE . . . Or, is that, HUSSEIN?"
So...is she saying that Obama can't be trusted to lead the country because he's Muslim and will side with terrorists over the US just because of that?
(BTW, looking over this thread, I find it interesting that the only reason people could think of that I was suspicious of the "Hussein" bit was because I'm a liberal.)
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BTW, Debbie Schlussel has quite an extensive history of snti-Muslim "hate speech," as some have called it.
SHe's also said some pretty scummy things about Jill Carroll.
I'm glad to hear that you don't fully agree with a lady like this.
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Quote:
dogbert said:
(BTW, looking over this thread, I find it interesting that the only reason people could think of that I was suspicious of the "Hussein" bit was because I'm a liberal.)
It's not because you're liberal Whomod. It's just cuz' you're a tard.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
This columnist argues:Barack Hussein Obama: Once a Muslim, Always A Muslim
while Obama may not identify as a Muslim, that's not how the Arab and Muslim Streets see it. In Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim. You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim. He may think he's a Christian, but they do not.
Then, there are the other items in his background. As best-selling author Scott Turow wrote in Salon, Obama went to a Muslim school for two years in Indonesia. His mother, Anna, married an Indonesian man (likely another Muslim, as Indonesia is Muslim-dominated and has the largest Islamic population in the world).
And Obama has a "born-again" affinity for the nation of his Muslim father, Kenya, and his Kenyan sister. (Although Kenya is largely Christian, it has a fast-growing Muslim population that has engaged in a good deal of religious violence and riots against Christians. And Kenyan courts will apply Sharia law, when the participants are Muslim.) Wrote Turow:
Obama's father died in a traffic accident in Nairobi in 1982, but while Obama was working in Chicago, he met his Kenyan sister, Auma, a linguist educated in Germany who was visiting the United States. When she returned to Kenya in 1986 to teach for a year at the University of Nairobi, Obama finally made the trip to his father's homeland he had long promised himself.
There, he managed to fully embrace a heritage and a family he'd never fully known and come to terms with his father, whom he'd long regarded as an august foreign prince, but now realized was a human being burdened by his own illusions and vulnerabilities.
So, even if he identifies strongly as a Christian, and even if he despised the behavior of his father (as Obama said on Oprah); is a man who Muslims think is a Muslim, who feels some sort of psychological need to prove himself to his absent Muslim father, and who is now moving in the direction of his father's heritage, a man we want as President when we are fighting the war of our lives against Islam? Where will his loyalties be?
Not sure I agree, but its an interesting read.
Articles like this probably won't sway very many outside the fearful right who never would have voted for him anyway.
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Perhaps, but if the "sensible right" or the
"cynical campaign consultant right" takes what the "fearful right" wrote, repackages it in a less histronic manner and distills it into a pithy sound bite, it may resonate with some swing voters in middle America.
After all, "once a Muslim always a Muslim" is not particularly different than, say, "once an oil man, always an oil man" (one of the left's accusations against Bush/Cheney) in terms of its inability to recognize that people change and/or can put the country's interests above their own.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
Eric Zorn
Published December 19, 2006
It's hard to tell who's shrieking louder these days: Those who are insisting that Barack Obama is a political blank slate and nobody knows what he stands for, or those who are insisting that the track record of Illinois' junior Democratic senator shows he's a hard-core, wild-eyed liberal.
It's hard to tell because both sides are being drowned out by the indignant snorts of those who say that Obama lacks the "experience" to be a presidential contender, along with the polite interjections from those who demand to know just what Obama has done in his public life to justify the broad enthusiasm for his prospective entry into the Democratic primary field for 2008.
All I hear amid the noise is the thrum of resentment and fear:
Resentment that he's not playing by the old rules--that he hasn't acquired his political capital by spending years swapping favors and grandstanding in lesser offices or by climbing the coattails of his politically powerful father.
And fear that he's going to be a hell of a good candidate--brilliant, telegenic, immensely likable and on the popular (negative) side of the war in Iraq from the git-go.
Not to say that he'll be a perfect candidate.
The skeptics, the condescending, self-congratulatory promoters of the so-called "Baracklash" against the hype (another Newsweek cover photo this week, golly!), are fond of insinuating that those who think Obama should run for president are naive idealists drunk on the idea that the man can do and has done no wrong.
Every political movement has the hypnotized true believers, of course. And at this point Obama seems to have more than his share. But there are many realists in the ranks. And they know that, while Obama has his faults and has made some dumb moves in his career (land deal with a sleazebag, golly again!), the frenzied hand-waving over his prospective candidacy today is merely the objections of those who protest too much.
Obama says he will announce in the coming weeks his decision on whether to run.
The blank-slate argument: Obama's somewhat wonky new book, his speeches and his voting record in the Illinois Senate and U.S. Senate reveal plenty about his political philosophy.
The too-liberal argument: Those who realize that Obama, does, in fact, have a record to examine fret instead that he's way off to the left. It depends on one's perspective, of course, but he's reached out in several speeches to the Christian evangelical community, supported the 700-mile fence along the Mexican border and voted against Sen. John Kerry's proposed timeline for troop withdrawal from Iraq.
To take another example, his voting record has earned him an American Civil Liberties Union approval "score" of 83 percent, same as Sen. Hillary Clinton and Kerry and lower than the score of 11 other Senate Democrats.
The no-experience argument: I'm fond of the gotcha point out there that a certain other lanky, big-eared former Illinois legislator with just two years in Washington was mocked for his lack of experience when he ran for president in 1860, and he turned out to be an OK chief executive.
But one doesn't have to see Obama as the reincarnation of Abe Lincoln to realize first that experience--the length of one's resume--is not necessarily a predictor of success in the Oval Office; second, that no experience as a mayor, governor or legislator can really prepare a person to be the leader of the free world; and third, related to the first two, that the ability to inspire, to lead, to listen and to deliberate is a personality trait, not a skill one learns in the political trenches.
The no-accomplishment argument: Obama has served in the minority party in the U.S. Senate for two years--not a position with much leverage. Still, he managed to get his name on sunshine legislation to track and search government spending online, action to send additional humanitarian relief to the Congo and a nuclear-threat reduction program. He's also promoted the interests of military veterans.
But look, this is not a brief for Obama. It's a suggestion that the cynics as well as the supporters pipe down, take a breath and judge him by the same standards by which we have always judged prospective candidates.
Don't believe the noise or the hype. Examine his record and his experience for yourself--just don't pretend he doesn't have them.
chicagotribune.com
The problem with this piece is that Zorn pretty much does what he accuses Obama's critics of doing: arguing from inconsistent positions.
In the first place, Zorn tells us that Obama has a record. In the next instance he insists that Obama's lack of record is nothing to worry about because Lincoln lacked experience too.
In addition, a good columnist will at least pay lip service to the other side, and try to explain why the other side is wrong. A good columnist will, also, acknowledge potential flaws in his or her argument and try to explain why those flaws aren't fatal. However, rather than consider the criticisms and respond to them intelligently, Zorn accuses Obama's critics of "fear" and "resentment." In essence, all he did was pull out a few buzzwords (at least he was able to refrain from calling the critics "racist Islamophobes") and assume that labeling equaled logic.
Its always a little off putting when any reporter, even in "columnist" mode gets this excited over a politician. It shows that the reporter is a little too willing to throw away objective analysis for bias.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
That's interesting, very interesting.
Yes, Pariah, it is.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I prefer some type of voteing record myself.
That's your right. However, based on voting patterns of the past forty-plus years, you're a little alone in that desire.
Every President since 1964 has had executive branch experience and ran orimarily on that experience.
Johnson ran as the incumbent.
Nixon ran as a former Vice President.
Carter ran as a governor.
Reagan ran as a governor, then as sitting president
Bush Sr ran as a sitting Vice President.
Clinton ran as a governor, then as sitting President
Bush ran as a governor, then as sitting President
In contrast, during that same time period, every candidate whose experience ended with the legislative branch lost.
Senator Goldwater lost
Senator Humphrey lost
Senator McGovern lost
Senator Dole lost
Senator Kerry lost.
In fact, if the 2008 race ends up as McCain vs Clinton or McCain v Obama, it will be the first time in forty-eight years that a sitting legislator is elected President.
And if its Guiliani or Romney vs either of those guys, there's a good chance a member of the executive branch (Governor or Mayor) will get elected again.
I think most people would like to see more experienced candidates in this post 9/11 world but the political process still turns experience into a liability. McCain & Kerry both had their records fuel more than a couple of negative campaign ads.
Yes. And hypocritically, Kerry launched attacks on Bush's Vietnam-era service in the National Guard.
Even as Kerry simultaneously bemoaned Bush's counter-attack on Kerry's questionable Vietnam service.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Slightly more positive for Obama, a new poll suggests the country is a bit readier to make an African-American President than they are a woman.
A Newsweek poll finds 86% of registered voters say they would back a qualified woman nominated by their party. For a black person, 93% say they would be willing to back the candidate.
The survey also found Americans think their fellow citizens still are a bit reluctant to elect either. Only 55% say the U.S. is ready to elect a woman; 56% say they can see the country selecting an African-American.
As I've frequently pointed out when liberals here bemoan what an allegedly white racist nation we are:
Political polls have shown since 1992 that when names are offered as potential candidates for president, the consistent winner for 16 years has been Colin Powell. So a nation that is only 13% black would select a black man for president, if he would only run.
That means the 87% of America that is not black, is ready for a black president, and has been for almost two decades.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I think most people would like to see more experienced candidates in this post 9/11 world but the political process still turns experience into a liability. McCain & Kerry both had their records fuel more than a couple of negative campaign ads.
Yes. And hypocritically, Kerry launched attacks on Bush's Vietnam-era service in the National Guard.
Even as Kerry simultaneously bemoaned Bush's counter-attack on Kerry's questionable Vietnam service.
You mean when all the Bush toadies made up accusations of Kerry falsifying his documented service record & he was actually defending himself? Not sure how that is hypocritical.
I seem to recall that Kerry still hasn't released everything. I think he released the files at the Pentagon, but not the ones at the National Archive.
Maybe Kerry can be Barack Hussein Obama's running mate this time. If he can keep his foot out of his mouth.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Articles like this probably won't sway very many outside the fearful right who never would have voted for him anyway.
I guess I disagree with you Wednesday. Working on people's fear & ignorance can be very effective in a campaign. I wish you were right though.
Rethinking things, maybe you're right.
Sad.
Politics is war by other means. Playing on fear is part of the 'art of war' for both sides.
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Doesn't make it right or good or any less sad.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
You mean when all the Bush toadies made up accusations of Kerry falsifying his documented service record & he was actually defending himself? Not sure how that is hypocritical.
What did they make up again?
I think they made up the idea of Kerry voting for the war. Or maybe they made up the idea that he then voted against it.
By the way, was Kerry defending himself when HIS toadie falsified National Guard records and got them aired on CBS?
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I think most people would like to see more experienced candidates in this post 9/11 world but the political process still turns experience into a liability. McCain & Kerry both had their records fuel more than a couple of negative campaign ads.
Yes. And hypocritically, Kerry launched attacks on Bush's Vietnam-era service in the National Guard.
Even as Kerry simultaneously bemoaned Bush's counter-attack on Kerry's questionable Vietnam service.
You mean when all the Bush toadies made up accusations of Kerry falsifying his documented service record & he was actually defending himself? Not sure how that is hypocritical.
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
You mean when all the Bush toadies made up accusations of Kerry falsifying his documented service record & he was actually defending himself? Not sure how that is hypocritical.
What did they make up again?
I think they made up the idea of Kerry voting for the war. Or maybe they made up the idea that he then voted against it.
By the way, was Kerry defending himself when HIS toadie falsified National Guard records and got them aired on CBS?
Thanks WB
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Associated Press: Former Intern in Sen. Obama's Office Linked to Indicted FundraiserAn intern in Sen. Barack Obama's office last year was recommended by an Illinois Democratic fundraiser later indicted for seeking kickbacks on government deals.
Obama has denied doing any favors for Antoin "Tony" Rezko, who has pleaded not guilty to the charges brought against him. The internship was one of 98 Illinois spots filled from a pool of 350 applicants.
John Aramanda, a 20-year-old student, served in Obama's Capitol Hill office from July 20 to Aug. 26, 2005, and was paid an $804 stipend, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs told the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago Sun-Times in reports published Sunday.
Gibbs said Rezko recommended the intern to Obama but contended that the internship did not contradict Obama's statements about not doing any favors for Rezko. I gotta agree with Barack Hussein Obama here. This seems pretty sketchy as evidence. Its funny how, as soon as Barack Hussein Obama starts beating Hillary Rodham Clinton in some early polls, negative information about him starts leaking out. Not that the Clintons would ever slander an opponent or anything. 
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
It seems like it's time to get Obama! So far he's guilty of a legal land deal & well the cockroaches are kind of stuck for bad things beyond his middle name. Oh well.
Yes, as noted above, I think the Clintons are out of line using this land deal against him, given the evidence so far.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
It seems like it's time to get Obama! So far he's guilty of a legal land deal & well the cockroaches are kind of stuck for bad things beyond his middle name. Oh well.
Yes, as noted above, I think the Clintons are out of line using this land deal against him, given the evidence so far.
Quote:
the G-man said:
While the Democrat faithful are bemoaning the malicious campaign tactics of the oh-so-hated Republicans( Bush, Rove, etc.), I think it will actually be the Clintons who manage to tank Obama's candidacy.
The rancorous attacks on Obama will come from within the Democrat party, but Democrats will somehow later find a manufactured way to blame it on the Republicans.
Last edited by Wonder Boy; 2006-12-28 4:58 PM.
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That post made absolutely no sense at all.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Sorry but what does that have to do with G-man just making up accustions about the Clintons?
WB is pointing out that the process is tough on all candidates and will be tough on Barack Hussein Obama too.
He is also acknowledging my point, to wit, that Clintons are as, if not more, likely to attack Obama at this point since he is Hillary's rival for the nomination.
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Thanks for clarifying in my absence, G-man.
I edited my two sentences above for greater clarity. Although since G-man was able to thoroughly understand my meaning already, I suspect it was clear enough in the first place.
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Translation:
If you're a right wing whacko it already made sense.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
rex said:
Translation:
If you're a right wing whacko it already made sense.
Less partisanly, if you can read and understand English, it makes sense.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Posts: 46,308 |
Thank you for not being condescending.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
Quote:
rex said:
It's nice to know some things never change.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308 |
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308 |
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Correction, you didn't speculate but flat out said the Clinton's were doing it.
No. I said I think the Clintons are doing it.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
Barack Obama Was A Junkie?In a memoir written before his political aspirations began, Obama admits to marijuana use and even labels himself a “junkie.”
"Junkie. Pothead. That's where I'd been headed: the final, fatal role of the young would-be black man. . . . I got high [to] push questions of who I was out of my mind," according to a report from The Post. Those words appear in Obama’s “Dreams From My Father”, a piece written in his 30’s.
Obama is now 45-years-old.
In another drug related news bit, Obama has also admitted, via another book to using cocaine at one time. Personally, I don't think that a guy did drugs twenty years ago disqualifies him to be President. However, it will be interesting to see if the Democrats hold Barack Hussein Obama to the same standards as they try to hold George W. Bush.
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Joined: May 2003
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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I worry that, because he is black, Obama will be scrutinized more so than a white presidential candidate.
At first, I thought he ought not to have admitted he did drugs, but at least this way, it is not a skeleton in his closet anymore.
But honesty is not always a good thing in politics....
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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