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http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/11/061211130257.ypfkzp5b.htmlIran students heckle Ahmadinejad Iranian students have disrupted a speech by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at a prestigious Tehran university, setting fire to his picture and heckling him. "Some students chanted radical slogans and inflamed the atmosphere of the meeting" at the Amir Kabir University, said the semi-official Fars news agency on Monday, which is close to Ahmadinejad. "A small number of students shouted 'death to the dictator' and smashed cameras of state television but they were confronted by a bigger group of students in the hall chanting: 'We support Ahmadinejad'," it said. It was the latest in a series of student demonstrations in recent days, the first time in least two years that such protests have taken place on this scale at Iranian universities. Ahmadinejad responded by describing those students chanting the slogans as an "oppressive" minority. "A small number of people who claim there is oppression are creating oppression and do not let the majority hear (my) words," he said. According to the student news agency ISNA, Ahmadinejad responded to the students' chants of "students can die but they do not accept degradation" by lashing out at the United States. "Today, the worst type of dictatorship in the world is the American dictatorship which has been clothed in human rights," he said. "Our students are free and they fight and die but do not accept the foreigners' missions or bend to them," he added. "It is my honour to burn for the sake of the nation's ideals and defend the system," Ahmadinejad was quoted as telling protesters who set fire his picture, ISNA said. "Americans must know that even if Ahmadinejad's body is burnt a thousand times for this purpose, Ahmadinejad will not retreat even a centimetre from these ideals." The Iranian president's speech was also interrupted by firecrackers, ISNA said. A group of Amir Kabir's top students had earlier expressed objections to the government's economic and political agenda as well as "confrontation with student activists and ridding universities of independent lecturers". "Bankrupting the country's industry, inflation, distribution of poverty, defacement of the country's international image and playing with the nation's fate in diplomatic issues," were among the points brought up in a statement. "University is alive and criticises the government," it added, according to ISNA. The incident came after hundreds of Iranian students protested at Amir Kabir on Sunday to denounce a crackdown on a reformist-led university association, according to the ISNA news agency. Between 2,000 and 3,000 students also demonstrated at Tehran University on Wednesday to mark students' day, chanting slogans such as "for freedom and against despotism", ISNA reported at the time. This is something we don't get to hear about often enough.
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Young Iranians love the USA......and they far outnumber the scum that run the country. Who knows. Someday they may be an ally.
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If we play it right on our end, they very well could be.
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Quote:
Ahmadinejad responded by describing those students chanting the slogans as an "oppressive" minority.
"A small number of people who claim there is oppression are creating oppression and do not let the majority hear (my) words," he said.
 Crazy tinpot dictator....
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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I feel sorry for these kids. There is a good chance that their "leader" will get them all "nuked" by either Israel or us.
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I suppose it wouldn't be such a bad idea to help them out, if only by giving them what they might need to help themselves.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
I suppose it wouldn't be such a bad idea to help them out, if only by giving them what they might need to help themselves.
Part of me wants to agree with that.
Part of me thinks that we should stay out of it and let nature take its course.
There's no telling what could happen if we involve ourselves in any way. We could make things better in Iran and end up putting decent people in power who could reform Iran for the better. We could also accidentaly make things a hell of a lot worse. It's not like we have the best track record when it comes to getting involved in Iran, after all.
It's something of a crap-shoot, in more ways than one.
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You're suggesting we should shoot crap at them?  You need help, dude. 
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Quote:
dogbert said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
I suppose it wouldn't be such a bad idea to help them out, if only by giving them what they might need to help themselves.
Part of me wants to agree with that.
Part of me thinks that we should stay out of it and let nature take its course.
There's no telling what could happen if we involve ourselves in any way. We could make things better in Iran and end up putting decent people in power who could reform Iran for the better. We could also accidentaly make things a hell of a lot worse. It's not like we have the best track record when it comes to getting involved in Iran, after all.
It's something of a crap-shoot, in more ways than one.
I believe Iran will work itself out without our intervention. We would just fuck it up and cause resentment. They are a country where people under the age of 30 outnumber the rest of the country 6 to 1. Once the ruling theocracy is overthrown nature will indeed take it's course.
unless of course like G said, if the current rulers go to far they might get nuked by Israel. I doubt it would come from us. No president would ever want to be known as the guy who did that in the modern era.
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If we can wait, I think yes, social reform will eventually overthrow the current government in Iran, and remove the extremists and the nuclear threat.
But in the short term...
We have about 2 years until Iran develops nuclear weapons.
We have another 6 to 8 years until they develop the missiles to carry them.
That's our window. And once it closes, it's game over, and we have to act.
If we'd gone into Iraq with at least 300,000 troops in 2003 (as the Pentagon generals said we needed), instead of the lighter Rumsfeld-selected force of 150,000, we could have influenced elections then in Iran, with the mere potential to intervene on behalf of Iranian reformers.
But because we had no viable threat to cross the Iraqi border and intervene against Iran's ruling extremists in 2003, they suppressed the ability of reformers to run for election, and consolidated their power, giving us Ahmadinijad.
Another opportunity lost.
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Quote:
PJP said:
...if the current rulers go to far they might get nuked by Israel. I doubt it would come from us. No president would ever want to be known as the guy who did that in the modern era.
I doubt we would actually use nuclear bombs on them (unless they use one on us first) but I could easily see an American president bombing an Iran nuclear facility with conventional weapons if necessary.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
We have about 2 years until Iran develops nuclear weapons.
We have another 6 to 8 years until they develop the missiles to carry them.
That's our window. And once it closes, it's game over, and we have to act.
that's assuming that the everyone in power in Iran is suicidal. And that they actually want to launch nuclear weapons (and not just boasting).
Quote:
If we'd gone into Iraq with at least 300,000 troops in 2003 (as the Pentagon generals said we needed), instead of the lighter Rumsfeld-selected force of 150,000, we could have influenced elections then in Iran, with the mere potential to intervene on behalf of Iranian reformers.
But because we had no viable threat to cross the Iraqi border and intervene against Iran's ruling extremists in 2003, they suppressed the ability of reformers to run for election, and consolidated their power, giving us Ahmadinijad.
Another opportunity lost.
thanks to George "I listen to my generals" Bush.
Bow ties are coool.
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"It is my honour to burn for the sake of the nation's ideals and defend the system," Ahmadinejad was quoted as telling protesters who set fire his picture, ISNA said.
"Americans must know that even if Ahmadinejad's body is burnt a thousand times for this purpose, Ahmadinejad will not retreat even a centimetre from these ideals."
That is real leadership, wit, and intelligence...I don't think Bush could have had the sharp tactile mind to say such things...
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
We have about 2 years until Iran develops nuclear weapons.
We have another 6 to 8 years until they develop the missiles to carry them.
That's our window. And once it closes, it's game over, and we have to act.
that's assuming that the everyone in power in Iran is suicidal. And that they actually want to launch nuclear weapons (and not just boasting).
Quote:
If we'd gone into Iraq with at least 300,000 troops in 2003 (as the Pentagon generals said we needed), instead of the lighter Rumsfeld-selected force of 150,000, we could have influenced elections then in Iran, with the mere potential to intervene on behalf of Iranian reformers.
But because we had no viable threat to cross the Iraqi border and intervene against Iran's ruling extremists in 2003, they suppressed the ability of reformers to run for election, and consolidated their power, giving us Ahmadinijad.
Another opportunity lost.
thanks to George "I listen to my generals" Bush.
Many scientists believe that even a small nuclear war could cause a "Nuclear Winter", where clouds of ash would block the sun's rays', and cause global temperatures to drop an average of 35 degrees across the globe. This would last for several years, and it would mean disaster for humans as crops fail and herds of cattle and other livestock die.
Are people in the middle east really so crazy that they want to die and take the entire world with them?
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Quote:
Pig Iron said:
"It is my honour to burn for the sake of the nation's ideals and defend the system," Ahmadinejad was quoted as telling protesters who set fire his picture, ISNA said.
"Americans must know that even if Ahmadinejad's body is burnt a thousand times for this purpose, Ahmadinejad will not retreat even a centimetre from these ideals."
That is real leadership, wit, and intelligence...I don't think Bush could have had the sharp tactile mind to say such things...
I guess he doesn't like cutting and running either.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
We have about 2 years until Iran develops nuclear weapons.
We have another 6 to 8 years until they develop the missiles to carry them.
That's our window. And once it closes, it's game over, and we have to act.
that's assuming that the everyone in power in Iran is suicidal. And that they actually want to launch nuclear weapons (and not just boasting).
Quote:
If we'd gone into Iraq with at least 300,000 troops in 2003 (as the Pentagon generals said we needed), instead of the lighter Rumsfeld-selected force of 150,000, we could have influenced elections then in Iran, with the mere potential to intervene on behalf of Iranian reformers.
But because we had no viable threat to cross the Iraqi border and intervene against Iran's ruling extremists in 2003, they suppressed the ability of reformers to run for election, and consolidated their power, giving us Ahmadinijad.
Another opportunity lost.
thanks to George "I listen to my generals" Bush.
Many scientists believe that even a small nuclear war could cause a "Nuclear Winter", where clouds of ash would block the sun's rays', and cause global temperatures to drop an average of 35 degrees across the globe. This would last for several years, and it would mean disaster for humans as crops fail and herds of cattle and other livestock die.
Are people in the middle east really so crazy that they want to die and take the entire world with them?
Jerry, the scenario you're thinking of was a full-scale thermonuclear exchange between two superpowers with metric assloads of hydrogen bombs atop ICBMs, not a lopsided confrontation between the sole surviving superpower and a nuclear newcomer with capability for maybe a handful of weapons that in any case don't yet have a reliable long-range delivery system. We've seen the environmental effects of large numbers of nuclear detonations, because we were setting 'em off for decades just to see what they'd do. The world hasn't asploded yet, and we're not seeing too many three-headed children. The only deterrents to a nuclear exchange (is it an exchange if you have a twelve-gauge and they have an Airsoft pistol?) would be the widespread indiscriminate destruction of civilians in the target area and the inevitable political fallout from such an event. I personally would hate to see either when it's possible to do what the Israelis did in the early 80s and stop a bomb program cold with one good attack run.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Many scientists believe that even a small nuclear war could cause a "Nuclear Winter", where clouds of ash would block the sun's rays' ...
Thereby solving the whole "global warming" threat.
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"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
We have about 2 years until Iran develops nuclear weapons.
We have another 6 to 8 years until they develop the missiles to carry them.
That's our window. And once it closes, it's game over, and we have to act.
that's assuming that the everyone in power in Iran is suicidal. And that they actually want to launch nuclear weapons (and not just boasting).
Quote:
If we'd gone into Iraq with at least 300,000 troops in 2003 (as the Pentagon generals said we needed), instead of the lighter Rumsfeld-selected force of 150,000, we could have influenced elections then in Iran, with the mere potential to intervene on behalf of Iranian reformers.
But because we had no viable threat to cross the Iraqi border and intervene against Iran's ruling extremists in 2003, they suppressed the ability of reformers to run for election, and consolidated their power, giving us Ahmadinijad.
Another opportunity lost.
thanks to George "I listen to my generals" Bush.
Many scientists believe that even a small nuclear war could cause a "Nuclear Winter", where clouds of ash would block the sun's rays', and cause global temperatures to drop an average of 35 degrees across the globe. This would last for several years, and it would mean disaster for humans as crops fail and herds of cattle and other livestock die.
Are people in the middle east really so crazy that they want to die and take the entire world with them?
Jerry, the scenario you're thinking of was a full-scale thermonuclear exchange between two superpowers with metric assloads of hydrogen bombs atop ICBMs, not a lopsided confrontation between the sole surviving superpower and a nuclear newcomer with capability for maybe a handful of weapons that in any case don't yet have a reliable long-range delivery system. We've seen the environmental effects of large numbers of nuclear detonations, because we were setting 'em off for decades just to see what they'd do. The world hasn't asploded yet, and we're not seeing too many three-headed children. The only deterrents to a nuclear exchange (is it an exchange if you have a twelve-gauge and they have an Airsoft pistol?) would be the widespread indiscriminate destruction of civilians in the target area and the inevitable political fallout from such an event. I personally would hate to see either when it's possible to do what the Israelis did in the early 80s and stop a bomb program cold with one good attack run.
I hear you, Phil, and I am already well aware of what you said in your post.... but some scientists feel that even a relatively minor nuclear exchange could cause the scenario I discussed.
Bombs today are way more powerful than the ones used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
We have about 2 years until Iran develops nuclear weapons.
We have another 6 to 8 years until they develop the missiles to carry them.
That's our window. And once it closes, it's game over, and we have to act.
that's assuming that the everyone in power in Iran is suicidal. And that they actually want to launch nuclear weapons (and not just boasting).
Quote:
If we'd gone into Iraq with at least 300,000 troops in 2003 (as the Pentagon generals said we needed), instead of the lighter Rumsfeld-selected force of 150,000, we could have influenced elections then in Iran, with the mere potential to intervene on behalf of Iranian reformers.
But because we had no viable threat to cross the Iraqi border and intervene against Iran's ruling extremists in 2003, they suppressed the ability of reformers to run for election, and consolidated their power, giving us Ahmadinijad.
Another opportunity lost.
thanks to George "I listen to my generals" Bush.
Many scientists believe that even a small nuclear war could cause a "Nuclear Winter", where clouds of ash would block the sun's rays', and cause global temperatures to drop an average of 35 degrees across the globe. This would last for several years, and it would mean disaster for humans as crops fail and herds of cattle and other livestock die.
Are people in the middle east really so crazy that they want to die and take the entire world with them?
It's a desert... a nuclear winter would bring them air conditioning...
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It'd show those Islamo-fascists a good ole-fashioned American White Christmas. With mutants.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Have a Holly Jolly post apocalyptic Christmas!
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Well it's Christmas at Ground Zero....
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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Christmas at ground 10 below zero???
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Small Nuclear War Could Lead to Cooldown By ALICIA CHANG, AP Science Writer Mon Dec 11, 6:55 PM SAN FRANCISCO - Some of the scientists who first advanced the controversial "nuclear winter" theory more than two decades ago have come up with another bleak forecast: Even a regional nuclear war would devastate the environment. Using modern climate and population models, researchers estimated that a small-scale nuclear conflict between two warring nations would cause 3 million to 17 million immediate casualties and lead to a marked cooldown of the planet that could lead to crop failures and further misery. As dire as the predictions seem, they fall short of nuclear winter. That theory says that smoke and dust from an atomic war between the superpowers would blot out the sun, plunge the Earth into the deep freeze and cause mass starvation, wiping out 90 percent of the Earth's population, or billions of people. The new scenario offers no estimate of the number of deaths from the environmental effects of a regional nuclear war. Still, scientists said the scenario points to the danger of small nuclear states obtaining atomic warheads. The study, presented Monday at an American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco, was described as the first to document in detail the climatic effects of a nuclear war on a regional scale. Some climate experts not connected with the research questioned some of the assumptions made in the studies. For example, the studies assume that smoke is mostly made up of soot. But other organic particles could cause smoke to scatter and not stay aloft in the atmosphere as long, lessening the impact, said scientist Steve Ghan of the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory. "I think the effects of the smoke are exaggerated, but it does give people pause to think about," Ghan said. "It suggests that anyone who is contemplating attacking another country is not going to be immune to the impacts on their own countries." The late astronomer Carl Sagan and four colleagues developed the nuclear winter theory, calculating in 1983 the possible effects of an all-out nuclear attack between the United States and the former Soviet Union. Other scientists have disputed the degree of damage to the Earth. The superpowers' nuclear stockpiles have shrunk considerably since the end of the Cold War. But some of the scientists behind the nuclear winter theory _ including Brian Toon of the University of Colorado at Boulder and Richard Turco of the University of California, Los Angeles _ decided to revisit the topic in light of more recent world tensions. In October, North Korea announced that it had tested a nuclear bomb. Iran is also pursuing the development of nuclear weapons. Other members or presumed members of the nuclear club include India, Pakistan and Israel. The new studies looked at the consequences if two nations dropped 50 Hiroshima-size bombs on each other's big cities. By analyzing population data and distance from blast, scientists predicted a regional nuclear war would kill 3 million people in Israel and up to 17 million in China. The U.S. would see 4 million blast deaths. But the researchers say black soot from the fires would linger in the atmosphere, blocking the sun's rays and causing average global surface temperatures to drop about 2 degrees Fahrenheit in the first three years. Although the planet would see a gradual warming within a decade, it would still be colder than it was before the war, the scientists said. The cooldown would shorten the growing season by about a month in parts of North America, Europe and Asia. Normal rainfall patterns such as summer monsoons in Africa and Southeast Asia would be disrupted, possibly causing huge crop failures. In addition, the ozone layer, which keeps out harmful ultraviolet radiation, would shrink more than 20 percent, with the poles seeing a 70 percent reduction. ___ On the Net: American Geophysical Union: http://www.agu.org
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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In other words, nuclear war could be the end of us all, regardless of its scale.
Seems a good enough reason to avoid one, don'tcha think?
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Give peace a chance! You can't hug with NUCLEAR ARMS!
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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I prefer the term "self-preservationalist."
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But "Fuck off, self-preservationalists!" doesn't have the same ring to it. 
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
But "Fuck off, self-preservationalists!" doesn't have the same ring to it.
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Meanwhile... http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061213/wl_nm/iran_elections_dcAhmadinejad faces popularity test in Iran elections By Paul Hughes Wed Dec 13, 8:54 AM ET TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's anti-Western President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad faces the first test of his popularity since coming to power 16 months ago with elections on Friday for local councils and a powerful clerical assembly. The former Revolutionary Guardsman, who sparked fresh international outcry this week by hosting a conference questioning the Holocaust and by predicting Israel's imminent demise, hopes the vote will consolidate his grip on power. But reformists, driven from elected posts in a series of elections since 2003 by conservatives allied to Ahmadinejad, are betting high voter turnout and disenchantment with rising prices for basic goods will spark a reversal in their fortunes. A key barometer will be whether reformists can regain seats on Tehran's city council. Analysts say a divided council is the most likely result. "Ahmadinejad has given promises to lower income people to improve their economic situation ... (but) there is a gap between what was said and what has been done," said Abdolvahed Mousavi-Lari, a former reformist interior minister. Mousavi-Lari, who is masterminding the reformist campaign, told Reuters a higher turnout would work in reformists' favor. Anger at the spiraling cost of living in the world's fourth largest oil exporter is running high in the capital Tehran, although many say it is too soon to blame Ahmadinejad. "We can't afford even to buy fruit or to live in the city because rents are so high," said laborer Ali Nourzadeh, 39. Like many interviewed on Wednesday, Nourzadeh said he knew too little about the candidates and would not vote. POWER GRAB Iran's 46.5 million eligible voters will have the chance to choose between around 233,000 candidates for more than 113,000 city and rural council posts. Simultaneous elections are also being held for the 86-member Assembly of Experts, an elite group of Shi'ite Muslim clerics who have the power to elect, dismiss and supervise Iran's most powerful figure, the supreme leader. Most reformists have been barred by a conservative panel that vets hopefuls. In the Tehran council race, conservatives are split over who should be mayor of the city of 12 million people. Allies of Ahmadinejad, himself Tehran mayor for two years before becoming president, are determined to oust current mayor Mohammad Baqer Qalibaf, a former national police chief and a losing candidate in the 2005 presidential elections. "Ahmadinejad sees Qalibaf as a potential rival in future and he also thinks he is too close to reformist-thinking," said a political analyst, who did not want to be named. Ahmadinejad allies, who have christened their movement "The Pleasant Scent of Servitude," face reformists whose list includes a former vice president and a taekwondo champion. Another clash of personalities has enlivened the Assembly of Experts vote where firebrand cleric Mohammad Taqi Mesbah-Yazdi, a close ally of Ahmadinejad, is viewed by reformists as leading a hard-line power grab. "We should try to prevent ... this extremist group from controlling the assembly," said Mousavi-Lari. Most analysts say Mesbah-Yazdi and his allies lack the candidate numbers and support to gain control of the assembly, which will likely remain dominated by more moderate conservatives who have kept the body out of day-to-day politics. (Additional reporting by Edmund Blair, Parisa Hafezi and Alireza Ronaghi in Tehran) Change of some sort may come sooner than we might suspect.
Beware the advice of successful people. They do not seek company.
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