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nope. even though i was only a reader, i miss it too. That was some great stuff.
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM- harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father... Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
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I miss collaborative writing in general. And yeah, I miss Vanguard.
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I don't miss Vanguard, per se. But, TOMB will always be close to my heart...
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I miss telling little stories with characters I like that don't end with destroying the world somehow.
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I love Vanguard. mainly for what it could've and should've been, but usually wasn't allowed to be because some people were too busy missing the MBL and TOMB to give Vanguard the attention it deserved. yet, Vanguard still had a lot of good things about it.
I even enjoy many of the TOMB stories, though I wasn't part of them. there's a lot of good things there, also.
please do not prostitute the memory of Vanguard the way you have done the MBL simply for a misguided attempt at nostalgia.
if you want to return to collaborative superhero stories, do so by all means. but please create something new that doesn't involve years of backstories of characters and ideas from people who don't post anymore.
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You're entitled to your own opinion.
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Personally, I'm not interested in writing any more Vanguard. However, I don't see telling more stories within that universe as "prostituting" anything. I guess it depends on what kind of story is written...
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I'm just saying "look at the new MBL threads." is that what you want for Vanguard? a short burst of posting followed by months on end where only two people post maybe once every six months? let it go, guys. move on. do something new.
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If it's fun for Euro and others interested to write some new stuff with some old characters, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with it. It's not like we're writing high literature here. Collaborative fiction is throwaway RPG-like writing meant for fun, and there are different aspects that each of us like about it. Euro may not want to create new characters, because that would not be fun for him. What is fun for him is playing with the backstory, the internal history, that already exists. More power to him. More power to you in whichever aspects of RPG/collaborative fiction you enjoy, too.
This forum is meant for people to write whatever kind of stories they want. We will never all agree on what is a preferable form of storytelling, because we each love it for different reasons.
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Well, I was not saying that I want to restart Vanguard, as much as I miss the fun of collaborative writing that we had around the first couple of year of the HR Universe. When we were many writers and our main goal was to develop a fun plot with our characters.
Then the main goal switched to write the next great American novel and the whole concept drowned.
As for the new MBL, I don't understand such harshness on Grimm part. It sure was an attempt at nostalgia, but I don't see why it should be considered misguided.
Sure it "doesn't involve years of backstories of characters and ideas from people who don't post anymore", as the aspect from the past are old characters of us (Gooz and me) old MBL posters, while the rest is pretty much new.
We also had a good start, while the story ended pretty dead. But it's a common plague here, as it affect ALL the collective stories, based on new or old concepts.
In any case this thread was not meant to restart Vanguard, but to talk about the old stories, exactly for nostalgia's sake. Like, what we would have done with it, aborted plots, new characters we were about to introduce...
Last edited by Eurostar; 2007-06-08 9:19 AM.
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Too late, Euro. You've already got me thinking about ULTIMATE VANGUARD. 
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You're all right. Drake Marshall rules!
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look, I miss Vanguard, too. I admit it, I think about "Ultimatizing" the stuff all the time. The Light Brigade post in the "deaths of Drake Marshall" story grew out of that as did PAIN Agents. it's fun to think about some of the characters and imagine them doing things that they haven't done and may never will. when I say things like "misplaced nostalgia" it's from the pov that I don't think some people fully appreciated what it was when it was around. too much time spent talking about "the old stuff" or this was "the old stuff. this is what we did." rather than just letting it be what it needed to be. well, now Vanguard is "the old stuff" and conveniently it's now missed. I bring up the MBL and it's deterioration because rather than see Vanguard drug up out of mothballs again, I'd rather just remember the good times, shrug my shoulders at the bad, and let it stand on it's own. the people and times and places that made the MBL, TOMB, and all the "old universe" stuff what it was are mostly gone, but it's not stopped people from trying to drag it out again and again and it never works. many of the people once again, that made Vanguard what it was, are largely gone or are no longer writing. funnily enough, it always seems to begin with someone "just wanting to talk." I'm not naive, Euro, I know how you work.  the nostalgia is misplaced in my view because it seems imo that you're only able to fully appreciate something when it's gone, rather than enjoying it while it's around. I know I'm not only one who shares that opinion, although I may be the only one willing to say so. but this is a point that has been debated round and round in talk threads to death for years on end and you and I are simply never going to see eye to eye on this. (there's a run on sentence) while we may not be writing "the great american novel", let's face it, we can all stand to improve our writing in some form or another. it's one of many reasons why several of us came here and stayed. yes, there are some things I would've liked to do still. but outside of finishing up some old stories I've decided to let them go. I just wish you could do the same. ultimately though, you're going to do what you want to do. as is anyone else here. I'm not going to stop you, but I'm not going to help you either. this is my last real word on the subject. consider my "Promethian" bitchfest over.
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Quote:
"funnily enough, it always seems to begin with someone "just wanting to talk." I'm not naive, Euro, I know how you work. the nostalgia is misplaced in my view because it seems imo that you're only able to fully appreciate something when it's gone, rather than enjoying it while it's around. I know I'm not only one who shares that opinion, although I may be the only one willing to say so."
Well, I enjoyed a lot the HR Universe as of the first page of post on issue 1, when it was an Ultimatization of the MBL by everyone involved, minus T5 that being not around for the MBL, he alone introduced a new character. I enjoyed it all the time, up around issue 12. Then, I began to see the problems arriving, as ultimately they did.
As for improving the writing, well, it's obviously a goal of everyone. Just, when the focus shift from the role-play to the text, this game end. As the posts become longer and longer, less people posts. As more and more the post are coordinated and pre-planned, there is less excitement, because the fun of seeing what's next ends. And in the end, peoples see they can't spend so much time for writing this stuff, and stop.
I don't want to start a new Vanguard, I assured you of this. All the things I had in mind for Euro and his son, I was able to put in my Last Days of Vanguard solo, so I have no unfinished business with my characters. FOR ME, the Vanguard Universe had its conclusion.
I don't want to start any new round robin about superheroes, because there is Tabula rasa, which has cool characters. I see Doc is willing to continue it, and I will try to find some time to contribute. Still the story was pretty dead sometime before the random China invasion post.
About an Ultimate Vanguard, it could be fun, but I don't think it will have better luck than all the other round robins here. Still, I would like to see it to see how it is ultimatizable something that was, from the start, an Ultimate MBL.
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That's it. I'm bringing TOMB back... 
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
Just, when the focus shift from the role-play to the text, this game end. As the posts become longer and longer, less people posts. As more and more the post are coordinated and pre-planned, there is less excitement, because the fun of seeing what's next ends. And in the end, peoples see they can't spend so much time for writing this stuff, and stop.
This is very, very true. I know I haven't added to any story because it takes awhile to catch up with a story that has long posts, and I feel obligated to invest myself in a long post of my own. It's just easier not to write anything.
So let's do an role-playing game kind of story with SHORT POSTS ONLY, and with no pretensions of literature. Just our characters interacting with each other and adding new elements into the story without knowing what the next poster will do with them. It's a hit and miss game, but it's fun if you don't take it seriously.
Whether we use new characters or not doesn't matter to me; I don't really care. I've never been one to hold on to a character for very long. I usually go through them fairly quickly.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
That's it. I'm bringing TOMB back...
you know. . .you should really do more of the "Strange Adventures of MAN". that was some really cool stuff.
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Quote:
The Time Trust said:
Quote:
Eurostar said:
Just, when the focus shift from the role-play to the text, this game end. As the posts become longer and longer, less people posts. As more and more the post are coordinated and pre-planned, there is less excitement, because the fun of seeing what's next ends. And in the end, peoples see they can't spend so much time for writing this stuff, and stop.
This is very, very true. I know I haven't added to any story because it takes awhile to catch up with a story that has long posts, and I feel obligated to invest myself in a long post of my own. It's just easier not to write anything.
So let's do an role-playing game kind of story with SHORT POSTS ONLY, and with no pretensions of literature. Just our characters interacting with each other and adding new elements into the story without knowing what the next poster will do with them. It's a hit and miss game, but it's fun if you don't take it seriously.
Whether we use new characters or not doesn't matter to me; I don't really care. I've never been one to hold on to a character for very long. I usually go through them fairly quickly.
you do have a notoriously short attention span. I don't think you ever really found your groove with the Vanguard group. it seemed like you were frequently at odds with whatever was happening in the main story.
by the by, how's things with that hottie asian girlfriend?
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The thing with the Asian girl didn't last too long and was over more than a year ago now. I'm over her.
I've been dating another girl (tall blonde) for nearly half a year now. She's incredible.
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that's good. we haven't really talked since I don't hit incandescent anymore.
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Quote:
Grimm said:
By the by, how's things with that hottie asian girlfriend?
Quote:
The Time Trust said:
The thing with the Asian girl didn't last too long...
Quote:
Grimm said:
you do have a notoriously short attention span.
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completely unintentional. . .I swear. . .still funny. . .
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Quote:
The Time Trust said:
So let's do an role-playing game kind of story with SHORT POSTS ONLY, and with no pretensions of literature. Just our characters interacting with each other and adding new elements into the story without knowing what the next poster will do with them. It's a hit and miss game, but it's fun if you don't take it seriously.
Whether we use new characters or not doesn't matter to me; I don't really care. I've never been one to hold on to a character for very long. I usually go through them fairly quickly.
I would be happy with a thing like that, because I know that would be the only way I would be able to still do a round robin these days, with not much time on my pocket. Just like when there was the original MBL around, and Pro was the only one to write long posts.
But, the New MBL was just that, a round robin with short posts, and didn't have any luck. Still, if you want to start something with short posts, I would partecipate.
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Quote:
Grimm said:
Quote:
The Time Trust said:
Whether we use new characters or not doesn't matter to me; I don't really care. I've never been one to hold on to a character for very long. I usually go through them fairly quickly.
you do have a notoriously short attention span. I don't think you ever really found your groove with the Vanguard group. it seemed like you were frequently at odds with whatever was happening in the main story.
I suppose. I've long planned to revisit each of my characters in some way, but without attempting to tie it into established story continuity.
For example, I'd really like to write a "Doc Chance" story in which the title character was an American (with only a Swedish ancestry) and has a full supporting cast of his own, as he adventures around the world. Obviously it would be a Doc Savage pastiche, but with my own take on the adventure genre.
I'd also like to do a reimagined Time Trust android story without any of the established continuity baggage attached to it, but I haven't figured out which way I'd like to write the character yet.
Pete wouldn't really work as a title character, so I'd have to have him teamed up with another character, maybe as the sidekick meant for comedy relief, similar to the comedy relief sidekicks of the 1940s.
Sir Justin of Camelot has always been a fun character, but I never got much use out of him. He works best as a team member, I think. Same with the character who I created as a reimagined version of him: Mason Templar/Rama Avatar. He only works when teamed up with others. Speaking of which... Euro, we should continue Worldwalkers.
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why not write them all in one story? or at least several of them together. might be interesting.
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That's kind of what I tried to do with the Nightwatch, I should really get back to that...
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Quote:
The Time Trust said:
Euro, we should continue Worldwalkers.
OK, I'm game. Posted something.
Wolrdwalkers could be the perfect way to avoid continuity. As the character switch parallel Earths everytime, there is no way to pile up meaningless trivia.
But I would also like to continue the Avant Guarde by itself. A team of superheroes using only existing techology is what appeal me most at the moment.
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Whatever happened to this thread?
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Seriously. Phil, reveal us some of your plans about Smith in Vanguard.
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It really doesn't seem like that big a deal anymore. Most of it was going to happen in solo stories. I won't tell you much, since I am always recycling old ideas and incorporating them into new characters and stories, and at the very least I am still going to complete Identify. Basically, discovering the secrets of his identity, the major objective for Phil's character, will be far from the end - more like the beginning of his real adventures. There are lots of things I would like to do, given the opportunity, but a lot of it can be read in other discussion threads, much of it put into plainer words than mine by thedoctor or Pro. We will just have to see what happens. Right now, Bright is my priority (be that as it may), but Identify and Vanguard in general are still hovering around in my mind. We'll see.
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