Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow discuss Pravda’s FOXNews’s Fox & Friends laughably pathetic attempt to scare their viewers by suggesting a link between Al Qaeda and the wild fires in Southern California, which (surprise, surprise) parallel Bush’s own exaggerated claims on his “success” in fighting the “war” on terror.
Quote:
KO: Why are these guys and the rest of the right so in love with the trappings of patriotism and at the same time, helping Al Qaeda by manufacturing these super-human powers that Al Qaeda supposedly has? [..]
RM: They have to come up with super-human powers for Al Qaeda because they want to use Al Qaeda to justify a super-extreme agenda for the United States of America. If you really, really want to radically transform our government and radically transform who we are as a country; if you want East German style policing, and people informing on their neighbors, and you want to get rid of the Fourth Amendment, and you want endless wars conducted for profit; if you want to completely get rid of the safety net function and the regulatory function of the government; if you have an agenda that radical, you better have a really radical justification for it. And so they have to elevate this band of death cults, fundamentalist criminals into a threat that is greater than the Soviet Union ever was when they not only had a military but they had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at our country. They have to make Al Qaeda even worse than that.
The "terrorpublicans". Heh.
Between FOX news trying to scare people with (more) phony terror scares and Glenn Beck having a blase attitude because "America haters" were the only ones losing their homes in this fire (because this guy is so ignorant that he doesn't realize most of the areas affected are GOP bastions), I'd say all these right wing tools are .....um..... assholes.
When will these fear mongering wingers realize that trying to scare people thru terror IS the whole point of terrorism?
It's funny because there are still people that swear by this propaganda channel that is always so wrong but it's also maddening that they're still trying, as ridiculous as their attempts are, to keep everyone fearful of the boogeyman for their own partisan ends.
According to one of whomod's blog links (above) Fox didn't say Al Queada was responsible for the fires. The only thing that happened was that some of the reporters wondered if there was a connection:
According to Steve Doocy, they learned that "police officers in a hovering helicopter saw a guy starting one of these fires." An "ominous" FBI memo from early this past summer has "popped up," and "an Al Qaeda detaineee" has said that the next wave of terrorism could be a series of wildfires.
In addition, as reported yesterday by multiple news sources (including the Associated Press) one of the causes of the fire has been ruled arson.
Given the above, it's hardly surprising (or irresponsible) to wonder about a possible connection. As much as some terrorist-deniers would like to pretend otherwise, it is an historical fact that Al Quaeda has operated domestically (hello? WTC anyone?). It is also an historical fact that some people (typically eco-terrorists) have set wildfires as a form of terror.
Did Al Quaeda set the fire? I don't know. And I tend to doubt it. But all journalists, especially TV journalists, speculate on the causes of disasters during coverage. So why single out Fox, other than a political need to minimize and distract us from the threats faced by groups such as Al Quaeda? Especially when, as in this case, there was some evidence making the possibility at least worth considering.
They’re using a FOUR YEAR OLD memo based on an article from a major Arizona newspaper written by a reporter not even working there anymore which stated this was all speculation.
But to Fox, that was news - and a four year old memo was exaggerated to something they claim was presented only five days ago. Breaking terror news actually.
I didn't see anyone else in other media "speculate" nor as the Countdown video listed, speculate so completely innacurately.
When you're THAT wrong, and especially when you invoke Al Qaeda's name to it, don't tell me it's all innocent speculation. It's FEAR MONGERING.
And let's say it is speculation, then theoreticaly, if the wildfires were caused by terrorists, then what? Does this prove that the Republican plan is working.
We’re fighting them over there, so they can attack us here?
They’re using a FOUR YEAR OLD memo based on an article from a major Arizona newspaper written by a reporter not even working there anymore which stated this was all speculation.
There was approximately eight years between the first World Trade Center attack and the second. Did information learned from the first attack become meaningless simply by the passage of time?
Quote:
I didn't see anyone else in other media "speculate"
I didn't realize that journalism had to be practiced by consensus now. Fox can't speculate about something until all the other networks do so first? Haven't you ever heard of a "scoop"? Each news organization tries to get a story out before the others.
Quote:
nor as the Countdown video listed, speculate so completely innacurately.
Are you saying that people, and especially journalists, should be afraid to ask questions publicly about major news events with national signficance? Or are you saying they can only do so if events later prove them correct? Talk about 20/20 hindsight.
Quote:
When you're THAT wrong, and especially when you invoke Al Qaeda's name to it, don't tell me it's all innocent speculation. It's FEAR MONGERING.
As noted in my earlier post, there was some basis for the speculation. Your own blog source provided one of bases I cited. Your outrage at the idea that anyone would think that Al Quaeda committed a terrorist act, given that they are a terrorist organization is a little bizarre. It's not like Fox speculated that, I don't know, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi set the fire. They wondered if there was a connection to a terrorist group with a history of attacking the U.S.
Quite frankly, your attack on Fox is starting to border on a defense of Al Quaeda.
Quote:
And let's say it is speculation, then theoreticaly, if the wildfires were caused by terrorists, then what? Does this prove that the Republican plan is working. We’re fighting them over there, so they can attack us here?
You're right. It doesn't prove anything about politics. But does it have to?
Does everything with the left have to be turned into "how does this indict or defend the policies of the Bush administration"?
Hell, the left is probably just pissed that the fire was set in the first place because they were hoping to claim that the fire was caused by spontanous combustion brought on by global warming.
I think the problem with FOX here is they're not just speculating but also not reporting everything. Why leave out that the memo is over 4 yrs old other than it might mess up the speculating.
Confederates were planning raids on Union stockpiles! Does the fact that the Civil War's been over for nearly 150 years suddenly make those plans out of date somehow?!?
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!" -Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah." -Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents." -Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise." -Prometheus
And the KKK is still considered a domestic terrorist group. And if a black person were to be lynched in the south today, I don't think that everyone would dismiss the possibility of KKK involvement simply because the FBI memos on them are more than a few months old.
I don't see it as a case of the memo being irrelevant but it breing that they didn't report how old it was. By not reporting that it was 4 yrs old it conjurs up images of the FBI discovering fresh chatter & planning by terrorist.
I think Whomods point is that there's NO reason to get into the terrorist thing right now. And he's right. This California we're talking about...forest fires are nothing knew there. If there's was a forest fire up in Maine or North Dakota then that be a diffrent story.
Those people at Fox News truly are fucking idiots. Last night (or the night before) I saw Dick Morrison on...O'Reilly factor I guess and (not surprisingly) Morrison was tonguing Bush's balls say how Bush has fixed every complaint people have made about him. He then went on to say people complained we weren't "aggresive" enough in Iraq so we got more aggresive. Yeah, that's why people are pissed off about Iraq. Not the millions exiled and misplaced, not the thousands dead, and not the zero WMDS that were found. Morons.
It there's NO reason to get into the terrorist thing right now. And he's right. This California we're talking about...forest fires are nothing knew there. If there's was a forest fire up in Maine or North Dakota then that be a diffrent story.
But the speculation was had only after the fire was reported to be arson. Had there been no evidence of arson, or evidence of a purely natural cause, you might have a point.
The last few major widfires here in Cali also had arsonists involved.
I seem to recall one where an out of work firefighter was the culprit.
This is nothing new.
Every year there are fires.
every year there are Santa Ana's.
Every few years there are catastrophic wildfires like this one.
The point in all this was that FOX was trying to palm a very old report off as being current and their "speculations" as being a fluid fast moving story.
To what end? Well, you be the judge.
Me? I see a certain small segment of the population obsessed with terror and with spreading their dread every chance they get. Not mentioning what segment of the population that is, but you only need to listen to guess.
The manipulation of our media is a major reason why we’re in the Iraq war to begin with so this outrageous propaganda presser by FEMA, while shocking—is not surprising. It’s a sad state of affairs. Only in this administration could this possibly have happened. After all, it’s how they work. Somebody should be fired over this blatant attempt to distort reality.
I also seem to recall "fake news reports" that were paid by the Bush Administration, i seem to recall a fake reporter named Jeff Gannon who also happened to be a male prostitute who would routinely visit the White House on days with NO press conferences scheduled. Plus he also worked for a FAKE News Agency called Talon News who just happened to get coveted seats at White House press conferences in order to lob softball questions at the Press Secretary.
FEMA has truly learned the lessons of Katrina. Even its handling of the media has improved dramatically. For example, as the California wildfires raged Tuesday, Vice Adm. Harvey E. Johnson, the deputy administrator, had a 1 p.m. news briefing.
Reporters were given only 15 minutes' notice of the briefing, making it unlikely many could show up at FEMA's Southwest D.C. offices.
They were given an 800 number to call in, though it was a "listen only" line, the notice said -- no questions. Parts of the briefing were carried live on Fox News (see the Fox News video of the news conference carried on the Think Progress Web site), MSNBC and other outlets.
Johnson stood behind a lectern and began with an overview before saying he would take a few questions. The first questions were about the "commodities" being shipped to Southern California and how officials are dealing with people who refuse to evacuate. He responded eloquently.
He was apparently quite familiar with the reporters -- in one case, he appears to say "Mike" and points to a reporter -- and was asked an oddly in-house question about "what it means to have an emergency declaration as opposed to a major disaster declaration" signed by the president. He once again explained smoothly.
FEMA press secretary Aaron Walker interrupted at one point to caution he'd allow just "two more questions." Later, he called for a "last question."
"Are you happy with FEMA's response so far?" a reporter asked. Another asked about "lessons learned from Katrina."
"I'm very happy with FEMA's response so far," Johnson said, hailing "a very smoothly, very efficiently performing team."
"And so I think what you're really seeing here is the benefit of experience, the benefit of good leadership and the benefit of good partnership," Johnson said, "none of which were present in Katrina." (Wasn't Michael Chertoff DHS chief then?) Very smooth, very professional. But something didn't seem right. The reporters were lobbing too many softballs. No one asked about trailers with formaldehyde for those made homeless by the fires. And the media seemed to be giving Johnson all day to wax on and on about FEMA's greatness.
Of course, that could be because the questions were asked by FEMA staffers playing reporters. We're told the questions were asked by Cindy Taylor, FEMA's deputy director of external affairs, and by "Mike" Widomski, the deputy director of public affairs. Director of External Affairs John "Pat" Philbin asked a question, and another came, we understand, from someone who sounds like press aide Ali Kirin. ...
And the KKK is still considered a domestic terrorist group. And if a black person were to be lynched in the south today, I don't think that everyone would dismiss the possibility of KKK involvement simply because the FBI memos on them are more than a few months old.
True, but the point is: can we rule out the KKK burning stockpiles?
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!" -Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah." -Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents." -Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise." -Prometheus
The manipulation of our media is a major reason why we’re in the Iraq war to begin with so this outrageous propaganda presser by FEMA, while shocking—is not surprising. It’s a sad state of affairs. Only in this administration could this possibly have happened. After all, it’s how they work. Somebody should be fired over this blatant attempt to distort reality.
I also seem to recall "fake news reports" that were paid by the Bush Administration, i seem to recall a fake reporter named Jeff Gannon who also happened to be a male prostitute who would routinely visit the White House on days with NO press conferences scheduled. Plus he also worked for a FAKE News Agency called Talon News who just happened to get coveted seats at White House press conferences in order to lob softball questions at the Press Secretary.
FEMA has truly learned the lessons of Katrina. Even its handling of the media has improved dramatically. For example, as the California wildfires raged Tuesday, Vice Adm. Harvey E. Johnson, the deputy administrator, had a 1 p.m. news briefing.
Reporters were given only 15 minutes' notice of the briefing, making it unlikely many could show up at FEMA's Southwest D.C. offices.
They were given an 800 number to call in, though it was a "listen only" line, the notice said -- no questions. Parts of the briefing were carried live on Fox News (see the Fox News video of the news conference carried on the Think Progress Web site), MSNBC and other outlets.
Johnson stood behind a lectern and began with an overview before saying he would take a few questions. The first questions were about the "commodities" being shipped to Southern California and how officials are dealing with people who refuse to evacuate. He responded eloquently.
He was apparently quite familiar with the reporters -- in one case, he appears to say "Mike" and points to a reporter -- and was asked an oddly in-house question about "what it means to have an emergency declaration as opposed to a major disaster declaration" signed by the president. He once again explained smoothly.
FEMA press secretary Aaron Walker interrupted at one point to caution he'd allow just "two more questions." Later, he called for a "last question."
"Are you happy with FEMA's response so far?" a reporter asked. Another asked about "lessons learned from Katrina."
"I'm very happy with FEMA's response so far," Johnson said, hailing "a very smoothly, very efficiently performing team."
"And so I think what you're really seeing here is the benefit of experience, the benefit of good leadership and the benefit of good partnership," Johnson said, "none of which were present in Katrina." (Wasn't Michael Chertoff DHS chief then?) Very smooth, very professional. But something didn't seem right. The reporters were lobbing too many softballs. No one asked about trailers with formaldehyde for those made homeless by the fires. And the media seemed to be giving Johnson all day to wax on and on about FEMA's greatness.
Of course, that could be because the questions were asked by FEMA staffers playing reporters. We're told the questions were asked by Cindy Taylor, FEMA's deputy director of external affairs, and by "Mike" Widomski, the deputy director of public affairs. Director of External Affairs John "Pat" Philbin asked a question, and another came, we understand, from someone who sounds like press aide Ali Kirin. ...
Whoa. This is insulting to Americans' intelligence.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!" -Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah." -Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents." -Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise." -Prometheus
IMO that particular story never received the level of scandal that befitted the situation.
A gay escort posing as a reporter (for a fake News agency no less), asking softball questions at the White House press room and visiting, sometimes overnight on days when no press conferences were scheduled??
Man! All Clinton did was get a consentual blowjob from an intern, not try to manipulate a press conference with hookers!
Whoa. This is insulting to Americans' intelligence.
The thing overlooked in all these stories is that the White House condemned FEMA only AFTER someone leaked the actual identities of the bogus press conferences "reporters" to them. Had this not come out, I highly doubt any corrections or apologies would have come out afterwards.
In other words, they apologized and distanced themselves from it BECAUSE they got caught, not because it happened.
Quote:
Reporters were given only 15 minutes ’ notice of the briefing, making it unlikely many could show up at FEMA’s Southwest D.C. offices. They were given an 800 number to call in, though it was a “listen only” line, the notice said — no questions.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!" -Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah." -Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents." -Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise." -Prometheus
In October, while the California wildfires raged, FEMA staged a notorious “fake” press conference where FEMA employees posed as journalists and lobbed “softball” questions to a FEMA administrator. Today, Al Kamen reports that two of those fake “journalists” have been promoted:
Quote:
On Oct. 23, the day of FEMA’s now infamous phony news conference, the agency’s former external affairs chief, Pat Philbin, announced plans to promote a number of people in the shop as part of an effort to build a “new FEMA.”
Cindy Taylor, deputy director of public affairs, was to become head of a new Private Sector Office, Philbin said in his e-mail to staff members. And Mike Widomski would move up to replace Taylor as deputy director of public affairs. […]
They’ve received the promotions they were in line to get.
It's sot of like getting the Medal of Freedom from George Bush I suppose...
On Oct. 23, the day of FEMA's now infamous phony news conference, the agency's former external affairs chief, Pat Philbin, announced plans to promote a number of people in the shop as part of an effort to build a "new FEMA."
Cindy Taylor, deputy director of public affairs, was to become head of a new Private Sector Office, Philbin said in his e-mail to staff members. And Mike Widomski would move up to replace Taylor as deputy director of public affairs.
Loop Fans might recall that both of them, posing as reporters, asked questions of acting Deputy Administrator Harvey Johnson. After our item, and an investigation of what Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff called "one of the dumbest and most inappropriate things I've seen since I've been in government," we're happy to announce that Taylor and Widomski appear to have been disciplined, FEMA-style.
They've received the promotions they were in line to get.
So, according to the External Affairs Weekly report for this week, Taylor is director of the Private Sector Division, and Widomski is deputy director of public affairs.
Heck of a job.
Which of course leads one to conclude that they were just being loyal foot soldiers and following orders. Orders followed which now are being rewarded.
CBS has the rundown of who’s who in the photo here.
In October, while the California wildfires raged, FEMA staged a notorious “fake” press conference where FEMA employees posed as journalists and lobbed “softball” questions to a FEMA administrator. Today, Al Kamen reports that two of those fake “journalists” have been promoted
I guess you missed Hillary Clinton's staged appearance where she was similarly staged with softball questions.
Oh, that's right. It's only news if a Republican does this sort of thing.
The difference is, the FEMA story was page 1 news for a few days, and Hillary's using the same tactics is buried on page 20, if it's even reported at all.
In this FEMA example of yours, it was not Bush who was doing the promoting and rewarding. How far down the line is Bush accountable for others' management decisions? I don't know whether softball questions are an offense that warrants firing or lack of promotion, or what, if any, admonishment was given to these FEMA soft-ballers.
I would agree, though, that Bush is loyal to employees who don't deserve that loyalty, such as Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and FEMA director Michael Brown. When employees have screwed up, they should be replaced by someone with an unblemished track record, who can restore public faith. I think Bush's replacements in these three positions have done that. But it is a valid argument that they should have been replaced sooner.
In October, while the California wildfires raged, FEMA staged a notorious “fake” press conference where FEMA employees posed as journalists and lobbed “softball” questions to a FEMA administrator. Today, Al Kamen reports that two of those fake “journalists” have been promoted
I guess you missed Hillary Clinton's staged appearance where she was similarly staged with softball questions.
Oh, that's right. It's only news if a Republican does this sort of thing. ...
Clinton actually had real voters asking real questions at that event. Everyone else besides the one was randomly called upon unless you count the second one her aides had lined up that she didn't call upon. How many real reporters with real questions were at the FEMA thing? Since the answer is zero I'm not sure how anyone can equate the two.
that's right. every single one of the reporters at that FEMA press conference was as fake as faux news. hillary for empress!
there's a big difference. hillary planted a question at a debate, which we all know is just the candidates selling themselves. FEMA did an entirely fake new conference about a serious matter to avoid being asked real questions. what hillary did wasn't really right, but it was nowhere near as bad.
In October, while the California wildfires raged, FEMA staged a notorious “fake” press conference where FEMA employees posed as journalists and lobbed “softball” questions to a FEMA administrator. Today, Al Kamen reports that two of those fake “journalists” have been promoted
I guess you missed Hillary Clinton's staged appearance where she was similarly staged with softball questions.
Oh, that's right. It's only news if a Republican does this sort of thing.
The difference is, the FEMA story was page 1 news for a few days, and Hillary's using the same tactics is buried on page 20, if it's even reported at all.
And it's just coming out that Condoleeza Rice did the same thing to drum up momentum for her position as Secretary of State.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the media and the 4th estate is supposed to be a check on power, not a facilitator to it. And certainly not a propaganda tool as unfortunately it is now becoming, FOR BOTH SIDES. It's just a tool of the wealthy and powerful, for the interests of the wealthy and powerful. And that is a big chunk of the reason the MSM has lost a lot of credibility and audience to blogs of late.
In an interview with C-SPAN’s Washington Journal, Washington Post reporter Glenn Kessler, author of Confidante: Condoleezza Rice and the Creation of the Bush Legacy, revealed that after President Bush promoted her to Secretary of State, Rice mounted a “public relations” campaign to distance herself from the pre-war fiasco.
As part of this PR campaign, she directed an aide to “plant a question” asking if she would run for President, in order to help “negate American memories of her very direct role” in invading Iraq:
Quote:
She had a very deliberative public relations strategy when she became Secretary of State to help erase the images of how ineffective she had been as National Security Adviser. And I describe how one of her aides even planted a question with a friendly journalist to ask whether she would be interested in running for president — to give her the aura of someone who might have presidential aspirations, make her seem more powerful than she was.
And that all helped negate American memories over her very direct role in the invasion of Iraq.
The difference is, the FEMA story was page 1 news for a few days, and Hillary's using the same tactics is buried on page 20, if it's even reported at all.
In this FEMA example of yours, it was not Bush who was doing the promoting and rewarding. How far down the line is Bush accountable for others' management decisions? I don't know whether softball questions are an offense that warrants firing or lack of promotion, or what, if any, admonishment was given to these FEMA soft-ballers.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch
that's right. every single one of the reporters at that FEMA press conference was as fake as faux news. hillary for empress!
there's a big difference. hillary planted a question at a debate, which we all know is just the candidates selling themselves. FEMA did an entirely fake new conference about a serious matter to avoid being asked real questions. what hillary did wasn't really right, but it was nowhere near as bad.
