RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Women Snarf: "Nice Guy"

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless Bitch for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

You do realize Snarf is either a troll, or a lost cause, right?

Yeah, but it doesn't hurt to post. Other people might read this and correct their errant behavior before they ruin anything for themselves.

Nicely played.

well, shit! I've learned some things here too. Can't turn away good insight, man.

Snarf is a lost cause. We've tried to help him countless times before and he breaks down every time. Its not worth the effort.

Seriously Snarf. You're a fucking moron if you ignore this.

Does uschi have a thing for lost causes?

She had a thing for Beardguy, so there you have it...

Doesn't mean it is a *good* thing...

My dog is broken and psychotic.

My cat is broken and needs assistance pooping.

I gravitate toward assisting the retarded and helpless. *shrug*

There's more hope for the cat and/or dog than there is for Snarf, provided he's real.

Yes, but I feel like a good Samaritan for even trying!

I think that covers most of the bases, and it surprises me that King Snarf has not aknowledged you for at least trying to help him.

I am starting to think he really does deserve some of the ridicule he gets, as he seems to be somewhat ungrateful.

I do think that the obession with him is way too much, but when a female tries to give some advice, you would think he would show some courtesy, and thank them.

No, that would lead to clingy stalking.

I'm just going to play along like I'm not also suspecting you're snarf. 'cause it is more fun to think we have new fish.

I've tried to PM him for honest, completely private discussion (I don't tell secrets, ask anyone... at least not *real* secrets) about it. As a female that is interested in females, I at least have the perspective of knowing what it's like to go after a woman *and* what we think like. He's all, No thanks, I'm fine on my own.

And it isn't an obsession, it is a running joke. Just like Rob is Gay (he is!) and I'm a rassist drunk russian hermaphrodite (I am!) and Reax is a pathetisad loser (he is!). Running gags build community.

Yer a Nazi, not a Russian...fuck you!

nazi russian then.

recent development says that though my ancestors came to america from germany/thereabouts, both sides of the fam trace back to russia when you go further back. explains the burly physique, i last through long winter!

I think all the Jews you ate explains your burly physique!

EL OH EL

rex, in your case that is seriously one big fucking, look it up in the dictionary, example of "the blind leading the blind." As near as I can tell, your basically Snarf with a few more years of failure under your belt and the resulting self loathing and rage that came as a result.

So, unless you're intending to be a cautionary tale, sort of a ghost of future failure, how could you help him?

mail him some socks?

http://adriftandawake.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/yes-we-hate-nice-guys-heres-why/

August 10, 2009...3:20 pm
Yes, we hate Nice Guys. Here’s why:
Jump to Comments

In the wake of the Sodini shooting, there’s been a lot of talk about Nice Guys. It’s interesting to me because I planned to post a condemnation of Nice Guys when I registered this blog. So I suppose now is as good a time as any to add my thoughts on them.

First things first. The usual disclaimer applies. There are guys who simply happen to be nice. Whoever they are, well they’re alright. I guess. Then there are Nice Guys. These bad seeds are not alright. Oh no, not at all.

How does one tell the difference between the former and the latter?

If a guy has ever said or thought anything remotely like “I’m a Nice Guy, so why don’t women like me more?”, then he is probably a Nice Guy. If he is angry and resentful at women who rejected him even though he was so nice to them, then he is definitely a Nice Guy.

A lot of people try to explain why women hate Nice Guys, and come up with reasons like “Well, it’s because they’re not assertive enough, they lack confidence etc”. Maybe. But it seems like an inadequate explanation to me, and only part of the story.

The real reason we hate Nice Guys is because they’re not actually nice. At all.

It’s a facade. An act.

But not a very good act. I mean, you can always tell there’s something a bit off about their “niceness”.

Here’s the thing, Nice Guys are passive-aggressive manipulators. For the Nice Guy, niceness is simply a tool he can use in order to get something else: a date, sex, access to your life savings and collection of pre-war mint condition coins or whatever.

Invariably, Nice Guys have an overblown sense of entitlement. The way the Nice Guy sees it, he has fulfilled some (usually shallow) criteria, like being clean-shaven. Or buying you flowers or something. And therefore he is now entitled to a date, or sex, or a relationship, or your eternal soul (if satan was real, he would be a Nice Guy. Fact.)

And when it doesn’t work, he will get all bitter and surprised. “But I did all the right things! I was nice, dammit! And the bitches still don’t want me!”

Nice Guys often feel entitled to women who are much more attractive or younger than themselves too. When Nice Guys say “No women like me” what they really mean is “The women I like don’t like me back”. And these women will probably be out of his league (I know it’s terribly gauche to talk about “leagues”, but lets face it, there are tiers when it comes to dating).

When the Nice Guy gets rejected (which he will, often), he will take it personally. He will choose to believe that the woman rejected him because she wants to hurt him deliberately. It is inconceivable that the woman rejected him because she is simply not interested in him.

This is because the Nice Guy doesn’t see women as human beings, with agency or interests. To the Nice Guy, women are merely Gatekeepers to a Vagina, Status Symbols, Cheap Housekeepers, Incubators For His Genetic Material, or Pretty Decorations.

So. Now all that is out of the way, I thought it might be interesting to look at typical Nice Guy behaviour. This is based partly on Nice Guys I have been unfortunate enough to meet, or hear about via friends. Also on what Nice Guys write about themselves on the internet.

typical Nice Guy behaviour:

They come on too strong, and expect too much too soon. You’ve gone on two dates yet the Nice Guy has already changed his facebook status to “In a relationship”. When you understandably freak out, you find yourself having to go through a long, extended “break up” with a guy who was never your boyfriend in the first place. He simply decided for himself that you two were an item, because he doesn’t think you have any agency anyway.

Nice Guys flatter women in ways that are obviously insincere. Like: “You have the most amazing eyes”, when you know perfectly well your eyes are rather meh and unamazing. Instead of paying you a sincere compliment they would rather just tell you what they think you (ie. all women) want to hear.

Nice Guys tend to fall back on stereotypical romantic behaviour: flowers, chocolates, expensive dinners at French restaurants. This is because they believe all women are robots alike, and that they can win over any woman simply by checking the right boxes, and throwing around a few credit cards.

Nice Guys have a problem with women in general. Every woman except for YOU, that is. You’re the single exception to all the bitches, whack-jobs, sluts and ball-breakers out there.

Nice Guys often speak in an insulting way about other people. Especially other chicks. They’ll try and twist it around and make it seem like they are complimenting you in the process. Example: “Gee, your friend Jane is really neurotic. I’m so glad you’re not like that.” They’ll also dis other men, often for their perceived bad behaviour towards women: “That Brad dude is such a womaniser, it’s despicable!”. However, when Brad-the-womaniser is around, Nice Guy will act very Nice to his face, because he is actually in awe of his womanising skills and secretly jealous.

Nice Guys offer unsolicited, over-the-top help, only to use it as guilt-trip fodder later on. Examples: “Let me drive you to the airport even though I’ll have to borrow my estranged mother’s car and take the morning off work to do so!”. Or: “I know we’ve only known each other for a fortnight, but let me cover your rent next week. I can see you’re having a rough time and I just want to help you out!” The second example is based on a true story (Yes, I accepted the money. Yes, I regretted it. Never again!)

Nice Guys only do nice things as a means to end, never out of niceness. It doesn’t matter what it is: buying you a present, listening to you, paying you a compliment. It all comes with strings attached whether you know it or not. They will keep a running tally of all the Nice Things they have done for you, and if you ever have an argument all the Nice Things will be brought up in sequence to shame and guilt you.

Nice Guys always play the victim. If you ever call them out on something they will try and twist it around and make it seem like they’re doing it for your benefit. Example: “I wish you didn’t complain so much when I make plans to see my other friends.” Nice Guy response: “But don’t you see, I complain so you will know how much I care, and how much I hate not being able to see you every night! It shows you how Nice I am!”

If they get far enough with you, Nice Guys will try to ingratiate themselves with your family. This is so you will hopefully realise that the Nice Guy is right for you, because after all, your family loves him! Some Nice Guys will also use this as a way to manipulate you later on “You know, I was talking to your brother the other day and we both think you should …”

If you end things with a Nice Guy, he will inevitably turn into the most vindictive, nasty, stalkerish loon you have ever met in your life. Slashed tyres, workplace sabotage, revenge porn: nothing is beneath the Nice Guy, because you had no right to break up with someone so nice in the first place you selfish cow!

…

I’m sure there is more, but that’ll have to do for now.

If you want a laugh, check out the The Nice Guy comic, which I discovered via Crimitism (who has written a brilliant post about Nice Guys).
http://www.theniceguycomic.com/comics.htm

The Nice Guy comic is quite possibly the most hilarious thing on the net. Not because of the witty, groundbreaking writing, or the charming illustrations. But because it does a ripper job of exposing Nice Guys for the self-interested, entitled, emotional cripples they really are, even though the author’s intention is for us to sympathise with the Nice Guy – to laugh and cry with him and cheer him on!

Unless it’s all an elaborate ruse, and we’re only supposed to think that we’re supposed to sympathise with the Nice Guy, and the author’s true intention is to expose the horror and tedium of Nice Guys in a stealthy way. In which case: well done. You’re very crafty.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2009/08/07/nice_guys/index.html


Friday, Aug. 7, 2009 12:08 PDT
No more Mr. Nice Guy

There is something BLATANTLY wrong with me that NO goddam person will tell me what it is. Every person just wants to be fucking nice and say nice things to me. Flattery. Oh yeah, I am sure you can get a date anytime. You look good, etc. Pussies.

That line from the diary of Pennsylvania gym shooter George Sodini, written before he killed three women and himself, almost makes me feel bad for him. Almost. Because in among all the misogynistic and racist ranting that makes up the bulk of the diary, he actually showed a flash of insight: There was something blatantly wrong with him, and people who told him how nice and attractive he was probably were blowing sunshine up his ass. No one told him the truth, especially not the women he was attracted to. Among miscellaneous notes tacked on at the end of the diary, he wrote: "Told by at least 100 girls/women over the years I was a 'nice guy.' Not kidding."

Sodini knew that was B.S. And yet, in an effort to learn how to appeal more to women, he took dating classes with R. Don Steele, where he was taught that being too "nice" was his whole problem. Tony Ortega, writing in the Village Voice today, transcribes a video of a Steele seminar Sodini attended, in which the author of "How to Date Young Women: For Men Over 35" says, "I would say that's the problem with most of the guys in the room. That you're too nice. Women don't like that. They don't respect it. It's about as arousing as a booger." To underscore the point, he writes on a whiteboard, "Nice Guy Must Die."

Plenty of people in the feminist blogosphere have attempted to clarify the distinction between guys who are actually nice -- whom many women, as it happens, really do dig -- and "Nice Guys," who, as Amanda Marcotte puts it, "are angry at women, at least the ones they will admit are women because they are the only ones they find sexually attractive, who refrain from giving out sex despite the fact that said Nice Guys® feel they've put in the requisite work of putting forth kind behavior, whether phony or at least somewhat sincere." But to disciples of the R. Don Steeles of the world, it never gets through. What gets through is: Women tell me I'm nice when they reject me, and my laydee-getting guru tells me women don't like nice guys, and I have a kneejerk dislike of the guys I see dating women I'm attracted to, ergo, all women hate nice guys and love jerks.

We don't have to wonder why professional Pickup Artists keep banging the "women don't like nice guys" drum: It makes them a hell of a lot of money, by reaffirming what their customers already, self-servingly, believe. So maybe a better question is: Why are so many women reinforcing the idea that insecure, manipulative jerks who feel entitled to 20-year-old booty if they put on a clean shirt and refrain from saying "whore" out loud are nice guys? How is it that so many guys like Sodini -- the kind who routinely refer to women as "hoes" (sic) and "bitches," and act disgusted by the thought of women having sex with any other men -- have heard, "You're really nice, but..." again and again in the course of being rejected?

In a post about how women's socialization leads to the very behavior we're blamed for if we have the poor judgment to let ourselves be raped, blogger Harriet Jacobs offers one answer. She says women are taught, among other things, that "it is not okay to set solid and distinct boundaries and reinforce them immediately and dramatically when crossed ('mean bitch')... it is not okay to make personal decisions that the adults or other peers in your life do not agree with, and it is not okay to refuse to explain those decisions to others ('stuck-up bitch')... it is not okay to completely and utterly shut down somebody who obviously likes you ('mean dyke/frigid bitch)."

Telling a guy the real reasons you're not interested -- you don't find him attractive, he's way too old for you, you get a distinctly creepy vibe off him, whatever -- or offering no explanation at all, because you just met this guy and owe him nothing, would be "rude." And thanks to the conditioning Harriet describes, exhibiting the slightest hint of "rudeness" to any stranger who approaches you with sex on his mind makes you feel not like a normal human being with healthy boundaries, but a mean, frigid, stuck-up bitch. Worse yet, sometimes, the same man who called you beautiful and offered to buy you a drink ten seconds ago will turn aggressive when you say you're not interested; he'll tell you flat out you're a bitch, or a whore, or less printable things. He'll reject your rejection by getting in your face and losing his temper. So really, it's a lot safer and simpler to say, "Look, you're a nice guy, but no thanks/I have a boyfriend/I can't." Most guys will walk away calmly after that -- and hey, it's none of your concern what they go home and write in their diaries.

I don't mean to suggest that that should be women's concern, or that we should stop using excuses that extract us from unpleasant and potentially dangerous situations as efficiently as possible. I just think it's worth taking a look at how a sexist culture gets women coming and going here. Because we're taught to be polite, submissive, and generous even when men are making us uncomfortable, we automatically reach for the "nice guy, but..." out. Then the guys convince themselves that "nice" is a dirty word, and charlatans like Steele profit from telling men who hate, fear and objectify women, who feel entitled to women's bodies and enraged when they're denied access, that they just need to stop being so gosh darned nice to women. And then one of them snaps and starts killing women he describes as not even looking human to him, and we're all like, "Huh, didn't see that coming. "

I'm sure this will have no more effect on "Nice Guys" than it has when umpteen other women have said it, but once more for the record: Guys, you are not being rejected because you are too nice. Niceness is a positive characteristic. I doubt any straight woman -- even the kind with a stated preference for "bad boys" -- has ever said to herself, "Hmm, I'd be really into this guy if he weren't so compassionate, thoughtful, and respectful. If he'd just dick me around and insult me a little more, I'd want to rip his clothes off." If you get rejected by every woman you approach, the problem could be a million different things, but I guarantee it's not that you're just too kind for your own good. We tell you you're "nice" because we don't want to be rude, we don't want to risk your aggression, and most of all, we want you to leave us alone.

George Sodini knew he wasn't really a nice guy. He knew there was something "blatantly wrong" with him. He wished someone would tell him what it was. But who's going to say, "You seem to have a really deep hatred of women, and some serious rage issues, and a ludicrously overblown sense of entitlement, and I'm guessing you'd need about a hundred years of therapy before you'll be ready for a healthy relationship"? Certainly not any woman he approached at a bar, who only wanted him to go away as quickly as possible and without incident. Nor friends who, by all accounts, kept pulling away until he had none anymore. Probably not his family, whom he professed to despise. So that left R. Don Steele, whose best advice was, "Nice Guy Must Die."

Well, this one did, along with three innocent women. As long as Pickup Artists keep conning insecure men into believing that hatred of women is the hallmark of a real man, and women still have reason to feel it's too risky "to completely and utterly shut down" men who make them uncomfortable, I guess all we can do is hope there aren't too many more "Nice Guys" out there with guns.


― Kate Harding

I have a friend who is a genuine nice guy, he just cannot get a girl to date him, and when he does they're self-important scandalous bitches. The problem is he's too shy and socially inept when it comes to girls. Instead of telling a girl he wants their number he'll ask, "so...how would you feel if I asked you for your number?" He's also too worried about how cool he looks, only easing up, joking and being self-deprecating when they're not around. If he's at a party he acts like he's their host, getting them drinks, food, offering money to help pay for everything, taking initiative to clean up and offering to help with dishes. Last weekend we were at a bbq and he invited a girl that I've told him to stop inviting everywhere because she just wants his attention, not him. I asked him why he invited her again and he told me if he stops being her friend he'll never have a chance with her girlfriends. He doesn't seem to understand that because of the fact that he always invites HER, he will never have a chance with HER friends because he's off limits as long as he's giving this girl his attention. I keep trying to back off and let him just keep doing whatever he wants, but I feel compelled to keep trying since that was me at one point, until I realized I need to be a little less nice and a little more balanced.

I once punched a woman in the head.
She didnt seem to like that either.

These bitches need to make up their mind what they want!

Silly nowie, women don't have minds!

they have hiveminds

REPUBLICANAZIST HIVEMINDS!

you need to hire him a prostitute.

unlike snarf I bet he's still gotten laid, and had 4/4 of a blow job!

He's going to the Philippines this week to be in a friends wedding, so he said he'd stick a few phillipino girls in his suitcase and bring them back with him.

While I realize you're kidding...

I had a friend who had the nice guy syndrome as well. We would fix him up with girls that put out and after one date with them when they were ready to do the deed he would tell them he loved them or some stupid shit. Of course they would freak and never talk to him again, he would then get bitterly pissed for them not reciprocating.