RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Media Lost season 6

I agree with you Pro, insofar as the character elements saved the finale and the show.

Don't get me wrong. As I said before, the ending and series was overall entertaining.

But, darn it, I feel a little like one of the purgatory people this morning. Every time I think about the ending a little more, it unravels just a little bit further.

In fact, part of the problem is that, as the show wasn't about answers, I would have preferred a few less of them, rather than answers that didn't seem to work with the rest of the series.



That's because you didn't follow the Shield.

It's like they wrote themselves into a huge corner than decided "fuck it, lets make it about ghosts"

In fact, I just thought of another plot hole:

In the Jacob origin episode we get told "don't go into the glowing cave, it's a fate worse than death." In fact, MIB goes into cave, comes out as smoke monster.

About three weeks later, both Jack and Desmond go into the glowing cave. Neither comes out a smoke monster. Neither dies (Jack died from his wounds later) either, in fact. No explanation for why not.

That's bad writing. You don't set up a premise and then ignore it within a month when your lead character needs a heroic death.

Yes.

The fell back on the crappy flash forward gimmick. That is all season six was, another crappy gimmick. It was one giant cop out.

i'm not sure if i'm reading you correctly, but i don't think they gave us a story of the characters being dead or in purgatory.

i think seasons 1-5, and the island portion of season 6, happened. everything happened as we know and saw it. it was only the "real world" portion of season 6 that was the purgatory - a dream world created by all of the island-relating characters, connected by their friendship and love and similar gay emotions.

we saw jack die on the island, and it was his ghost roaming "earth 2" trying it's best to figure that out. he wasn't dead the whole time, he died in the finale - we just got a few weeks' worth of seeing his deadness. in other words, they weren't "flash sideways" sequences at all - they were distant flash forwards, years (or centuries) after the characters' actual deaths, that the souls of the island folk created where they could meet up. like the local bar after work, except for ghosts. it looked and acted like 2004/2010, but paraphrasing what christian said, it was a point without time.



my opinion; the purgatory world the losties created was based on a world where the bomb exploded and reset time. it gave them all a familiar "starting point" in their reboot.



again, my theory - it did; they created it.



hah. who the fuck knows what desmond's power was? he could withstand energy bursts, time travel in! his! brain!, occasionally get glimpses of potential prophetic futures, etc. all we know is he had a thing for seeing other things.



everyone's purgatory moment related to their island life.



we only got... what, a week's worth of "earth 2"? if all the bits were taped together? as they were shown in the church in the end, they clearly met with and remembered one another. and, potentially did so without the helping hand of desmond, hurley, or charlie.



well, why not?

NO! The finale was awesome! Awesome I say!

desmond's "power" was to withstand crazy power things. jack's resistance was that he was the new jacob at that point. ...whatever power that means.

If your pulling shit out of your ass for us, Rob I could use a new coatrack.

Jack give up the Jacob position and made Hurley the island's protector before going into the cave.

So, either you can have multiple guardians all at once (which was never once even hinted at and, in fact, was more or less contradicted by the fact that Jacob and his mother kept blathering on about a successor, not successors) or Jack was as human as MiB when he went in.

In fact, if that was the way that the power transfer worked, Lilith could have just given Jacob the powers too and had him as a guardian in training. Instead, she gives him her powers and then dies, clearly intended to imply that once the power is transferred the prior host is human again.

i understood it to be a transferal when the original died. like jacob becoming jacob when crazy mom died, and then jack becoming jackob (eh?) when the last of jacob disappeared.

But if Jack still had his 'superpowers' when he went into the cave why did he die?

same way jacob and mrs. jacob died - they were stabbed

So it's like a vampire? If you stab them just right they die?

I can't believe that Harold was actually a bear in a human costume or that Vanessa was a 10th century whore!

They couldn't even tell us the name of Jacobs brother.

At least we got some spankerific Juliet cleavage.

Lost's Mr. Eko Turned Down Finale Guest Spot:

• Lost's Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje—who played the iconic Mr. Eko—was offered a guest spot in last night's Lost series finale, but he turned it down.
  
  According to ABC and Lost insiders, Adewale was offered a hearty sum to do one scene in the last hurrah, but the actor wanted five times the amount that was offered. It didn't work out.
  
  Producers have said their original plan was for Mr. Eko to stay on the show four seasons, but they released Adewale from his contract after only one season because he wanted off the Island.

Sooo....the producers had everything planned out you say...except for when cast members quit...or wanted too much money to return...or got arrested for DWI....or....

Not Desmond's. Penny was never on the island. Yet Penny was his constant in both worlds.

And don't give me "but he was pining for Penny while on the island" because if that's the case then we're back to the Sayid/Nadia problem.

i don't think anyone has said "everything was 100% according to an original plan." there have obviously been changes and new elements, with "ben" being the most notable variable, amongst other aspects like different episode totals, contract renewals, actor quirks, and writer's strikes.

but i don't think that changes the idea that there were overall show and season arcs and plot points.

i think the point was that all of the "hey, i remember you" moments dealt with aspects they interacted with via the island. kate didn't get hers from jack or sawyer or even that airplane guy, but rather claire's vagina. and, shit, desmond got his moment from the hobbit!

as for why des and penny would be connected beyond sayid and nadia, at least in an island sense... penny continued to haunt and hunt for desmond while he was on the island, with her being desmond's sole purpose for moving on. sayid eventually got over nadia and fell for shannon.

again, that's just my theory, which seems to make sense for the finale. but if i'm wrong, is that really a sticking point to write off the show or finale as "bad writing!!1!"

Why would Widdemore bring Desmond to the island to "save the world" when Desmond was in fact the only person that could destroy the island (and allegedly free Smokey)?

And if Desmond was the only person who could enter the cave and turn on/off the magic fountain then how was Jack able to put the cork back in? Why didn't Jacob just tell Jack what to do, instead of having Widdemore bring Desmond back?

i don't think anyone really knew smokey's true plans. chuck probably thought he could sacrifice desmond to kill smokey in a plan he never had a chance to hatch, cuz ben shot him.



i assume desmond was the only person who could remove the magic cork, as he had to wade through and the magic pee water. when jack was in the cave, there was no magic pee water to speak of.

Sayid knew Shannon for something like two weeks in island time. He pined for Nadia before getting to the island. He pined for Nadia while on the island and, later, married her after the Oceanic Six escaped. She didn't die until sometime after that. Sayid was so devastated he took Ben up on his offer to become Ben's personal assassin in the war against Widdemore.

With all that, we're supposed to believe his constant/soul mate was Shannon and not Nadia?

again, i think it was an island thing. and, again, i don't think it necessarily had to do with soul mates (see: kate and claire's vagina -- seriously, see her vagina!). and, more again, is that really sucha huge sticking point either way?

But once Jack put the cork back in, the glowing magic urine started back up. So jack should have died at that moment, not climbed out and died in the forest.

And how did Des get off the island at the end of the series? He wasn't on the plane and they kept telling us there was no other way to get off at that point.

Then we're back to the Desmond/Penny situation. Shouldn't Des's constant been, I dunno, Clancy Brown if that's the case?



To the extent that a story builds up a mythology/scenario/rules and then doesn't consistently follow them (in various incidences), yes. this is one example but not the only example of the writers seemingly not keeping track of their own "rules."

And if you're going to set up the final season that the entire series is not about sci-fi but about a series of magical rules you ought to at least try to follow them.

like with real urine, perhaps it takes an hour or two to regain smoke-monster-turning power. jack walked out on his own fairly soon.



ben alluded to hurley-jacob (hugob?) as being able to make his own island rules, including allowing desmond to head home to penny. maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. maybe it happened 100 years later, or maybe he hopped on smokey's boat later that day.

Superboy punched a wall.

At this rate, I think we're going to have Rob tell us that Smokey was nothing but a space bug that had crawled up John Locke's ass and that this explains everything.

so we're back to the "if anyone disagrees with you..." response. brilliant!

Lots of anal-retentive nitpicking here. Bobo has pretty much summed it all up, as far as the island's "mysteries". I honestly cannot believe anyone, anywhere, thought that the finale would suddenly tie-up ever-lasting-doubt about every speck of sand on the island. That's ridiculous. A show that ran for six years, numerous different writers, actors coming and going, strikes, etc. Did people honestly believe that there was some super-permanent, primal plan to the whole series and every single act that has occurred? C'mon!! If you thought we would get all the answers about everything in one show, then you simply never got the show itself, or television in general.

"But, the creators swore--"

Yeah, and Clinton swore he never had sex with that fugly temp, and Bush swore there were WMD's in Iraq. Life is full of lies, and television never more so.

If you didn't like the ending, I get it. I'm certain there are lots of people out there that feel that way. However, if your only gripe is that it didn't answer all your questions, or was confusing....fuck, what show have you been watching?

It's LOST! It gave us the only answer possible. For those that take it as face-value, and never invested any deeper thought into the show itself, then I'm sure you're angry your favorite science ficition television show didn't end with aliens or immortals. But, as for LOST, and the ones who watched it for what the show was about (the characters), then you should feel about as satisfied as Jack did in those last moments as he died...

Come on, Rob. Just joking around a little.

Sorry I forgot to include a winkie emoticon to let you know that.

I guess I just figured you could discern my intent as easily as you imagine what the writers intended by not answering simple fucking questions from the first five seasons.

How was that the only answer possible and not, off the top of my head: time travel, alternate universes (having to do with time travel, not religion), Widdemore (not a smoke bug) as the series big bad, or any of a dozen other possible theories people have had over the years which made as much, if not more, sense than the one we got?



No, my problem is that a lot of the answers actually made things worse, not better.



Most TV shows are supposed to be "about the characters." Does that mean that all of those shows could properly end with a reveal that final season was about the main characters being dead and pawns of magical superbeings?

Jack gave Hurley the baptism while the golden shower was off. So Jack was powerless. And the water was cloudy and off at that point. How could Jack give his role at that moment to Hurley if he was powerless? If one can make the transfer without having magical powers what would stop anyone from getting powers from the stream? And if you don't need to have your powers to make the transfer why did Jacob and his mom go through little magic rituals? And if the magic ritual was what caused the transfer (not the powers of the guardian) then how could Jack transfer power to Hurley since he never blessed the water the way that Lilith and/or Jacob did.

maybe? i guess i'm not sure what you're looking for here. is your question "why did X wake Y up" or more "why was X with Y in the church"? the individuals waking one another up were not necessarily their true loves or anything like that. sometimes love woke the characters up, sometimes it was a near death experience, sometimes it was vaginas. seeing shannon woke sayid up, presumably, because he was in love with her on the island. seeing her was an "oh fuck, i lived on an island" type experience. same with kate delivering claire's baby, hurley kissing libby, or just libby being crazy. being a soul mate or a one true love does not seem to be an exclusive requirement for the wake up scene or the church.

if you're asking how come sayid didn't get to sit next to nadia in the church when desmond got to sit with penny, i guess there could be a number of reasons. i'm sticking with that group being an island connection. nadia had nothing to do with the island, where as penny hunted for it, communicated with it, and eventually set out to sail for it.




personally, i think the show stayed pretty true to itself, through out. it's a weirdo adventure with maybe-gods, maybe-magic, and maybe-dinosaurs. but the focus is always on kate getting kidnapped, hurley saying something silly, and jack crying. even through threat of time travel and smoke monsters, it's always been a series about love stories and splitting fractions.

they time travel to 1970, but the kicker is how juliet will react when sawyer talks to kate again. they're stranded on a deserted island with a plane that breaks into pieces, but there's an ongoing plot about how an old woman from the front section can reconnect to an old man from the back. there's mystical beings attempting to carve plots over centuries, but we're focused on jack getting mad at daddy. the human and character aspect is the show. the thrill ride neato sci-fi and mystical parts are just the setting.

aye.

you're presuming the magic water powered jacob and the smoke monster equally. i can't say that it didn't, but there's nothing to say it did. instead, i'm assuming it removed the smoke monster's invincibility, the island's stability, and alpert's youth. ability.

whether or not it made jake less of a jacob or mortal or whatever, i dunno. but it didn't remove him of his role, which was protector of the island, which he was free to pass on to hugo. it's a one-to-one, willing negotiation.

again, i can't say for certain what the rules or limits of the transaction are, but there's no reason to suspect anything other than what we saw.

or, if it helps, a wizard did it.

Keep it up guys, I am enjoying the arguing of a the end of a Tv Show. It is keeping me entertained at work

So it stopped all the magic shit on the island except for Jack's power to transfer guardianship powers to Hugo? Oooooooooookay........ Nothing at all inconsistent or illogical about that.

Rob, you want to keep doing the writers' jobs for them to this extent, cool. Have fun.

And I want to make clear. While I'm pointing out what as I see as flaws in the final season, I think the overall show was a helluva ride.

But, dang it, who would have thought that after watching a show for 6 years the "big pay off" was in fact an explanation of something that they only introduced 18 episodes ago and very little about the stuff from the first five seasons?

They basically dropped, in the last season, almost everything about the actual premise of the show: Plane crashes on a freaky island and strange shit happens to them which continually gets stranger every single goddam episode. Instead of coming up with a reason for that we get "forget all of the past 5 seasons happened, we'll introduce something new and explain that instead, inconsistently."

And while the characters were a lot of the appeal there's something off putting about setting them up in a story about one thing and then dropping it for something very different. Almost as if, in the last season, Seinfeld became a cop show...or Star Trek a show about wizardry that took place in the past.

Why have all of this crazy sci-fi stuff happening for no reason at all? None of it meant anything in the overall scheme of things. They could have, if they really wanted the show to be about "magic" and the light and Jacob, jettisoned large chunks of the storyline that turned out to be irrelevant (the time travel, sonic fences, Widdemore, the Dharma stations, babies dying, Walt, etc.) from the get go and spent more time in seasons 1-5 building up a "magic" mythology...one that actually held together for season six.