RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Democrats Force A Vote on Healthcare Today

this was one of your main points in that thread, pro. on what principles do you base your opposition to welfare? your discussion in that thread led me to believe you are as opposed to the welfare state as most of us. my question is, how is socialized, taxpayer-funded healthcare of any sort ("optional" or otherwise) not another form of welfare? how is a state with public health care not a welfare state? I am just trying to figure out your reasoning here.

also thank you for deflecting my attempts at civil disagreement.

Phil, if it hasn't occurred to you yet, I'm not here to get into a debate with anyone, just as no one here is interested in said debate. This forum is for taking cheap shots at people, ideas, and political beliefs, as evidenced by the multitude of hilarious threads and posts about the "Evil Obama" and his "Evil Democratic Ilk". There is nothing worth my time here other than to just drop by, laugh at the exaggerated drama and doomsayer-gnashing of teeth, and then move on.

Now, pull my finger, punk...

the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh ass-kicky Moderator Lawyers Guns & Money
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Thread: Democrats Force A Vote on Healthcare Today

Wonder Boy content User rex's personal obsession
4000+ posts 22 minutes 43 seconds ago Making a new reply
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Thread: Re: All Hail the New Soviet Era!! We shall force our EVIL HEALTHCARE upon you all! E-V-I-L!!

thedoctor argumentative Moderator Timelord. Drunkard.
15000+ posts 33 minutes 13 seconds ago Reading a post
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Glacier16 ass-kicky User 4000+ posts 37 minutes 23 seconds ago Reading a post
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Captain Sammitch talkative User troublesome bastard
15000+ posts 22 seconds ago Reading a post
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Thread: Democrats Force A Vote on Healthcare Today

Translation. You can't defend your position when someone tries to reason with you so you fell back on a "I'm just joking" argument.

who's creating 'exaggerated drama' here? who's ranting about 'evil obama'? (don't say wondy, that's a given.) was bsams really being that unreasonable in his response? was I really mounting any sort of personal attack on you? you're certainly welcome to contribute whatever you want to this thread, like any other thread. but our contributions aren't automatically inferior just because you disagree. you seem to invest a lot of care and attention in dropping by, laughing, and moving on.

also, don't poke fun at jeff glacier for browsing this thread. rob's blog is gone - he's clearly lost his sense of direction and will to live. which makes me sad. and should make you sad too.

And here's the G-Man trifecta!

Btw, I have no argument. Just opinions. You can do all the arguing for both of us. Because, we both know you will...

You know exactly what I was saying. That Jews were optimistic if they just followed along, that things would get better.
They obviously weren't discussing healthcare.


Again: You falsely laabel what you don't agree with as "right-wing scare tactics". Despite (as clearly evidenced in the youtube quotes, and every day on Glenn Beck and elsewhere) that the Democrats have clearly labelled THEMSELVES as socialists, seeking a single-payer socialist system, and clearly said they INTEND to bankrupt and destroy private insurance, over "10, 15, maybe 20 years".
I have proven what I say, proven from the mouth of Obama himself, among others quoted.
You slander conservatives as "Right wing extremists" for simply exposing Obama's deception, that Obama's own words prove his denials otherwise to be a lie.



I already clarified what you already know I meant, before you even answered.

I have given facts, although I could have perhaps said it in gentler words.

I think you, among many other liberals, don't see yourselves as Marxists, don't see yourselves as acting against U.S. national interests and sovereignty, don't see yourselves as having a contempt for our Constitutional government, even as you hold an attitude of contempt for our government, history and national interests.
And don't even realize the roots of your 1960's-forward liberalism is rooted in a marxist plan enacted from the 1920s to 1960s, to destroy the foundations of capitalism, through taking over the education system, news media, entertainment and arts of non-Communist Western nations, to indoctrinate them to a pro-communist way of thinking. Again: read "Catechism of a Revolution" and "Four Who Made A Revolution" in Buchanan's book Death of the West.

Marxist-based liberalism was created to destroy capitalist nations from within, holding capitalist systems to a biased sstandard they don't hold themselves to. Its only purpose is to cynically bombard all conservative institutions, undermine faith in the system, and make the public ready to accept a socialist marxist replacement system. And never was socialism and blatant anti-Americanism so evident as it is in the Obama administration. Obama's own books. Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Van Jones. The part former Weather Underground Terrorists have played in writing the legislation for Obama's Omnibus Bill and Heaathcare legislation. The attempts to slander and silence critics and opposition, the attempts to ram through the legislation unread. And on and on.

Well, he DID start the thread...



Do I? I thought I was just posting some words, laughing, and moving on. Am I not?



It does. Sadder than most things, these days...

never mind the other stuff - you should clearly be ashamed of yourself for picking on poor jeff glacier. as a mod of this forum you should strive to set a positive example, sir.

That's true Phil. I am sorry...

Sorry Jeff.

Pro is Jon Stewart?

I wish! Think of all the Jew jokes Wondy could make!

I'd have to convert to Judaism to get away with it.

I got my divinity from an online school.

I now pronounce you husband and wife.

Classic episode of Seinfeld. Loved the guy from Breaking Bad as the dentist.

i just dont understand the hypocrisy of you laughing at extremism by carrying the catchprases of the left fringe. all i ever see you write is the keith olbermann babble, nothing of context.

I like your avatar, btw. Good shop.

Comrade.

AFLAC!

AFLAC!

Desperate for attention?

Very desperate. For anything.

-Snarf

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Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: Democrats Force A Vote on Healthcare Today
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Anonymous 4 minutes 55 seconds ago Reading a post
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Anonymous 4 minutes 57 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: Democrats Force A Vote on Healthcare Today

Hi gaysurgery!

Hi veminds!

Hy pocrites!

Who's that terrorist in your signature pic, wanky?

Abin Sure ass-kicky User Resurgent, the Fool Assassin
25+ posts 5 minutes 12 seconds ago Logging out

You've got a point there.

AFLAC!

AFLAC!

DEMOCRATS IN SENATE, AGAINST THE WILL OF U.S. PEOPLE, RAM OBAMACARE DOWN AMERICA'S THROAT, ALONG PARTY-LINE VOTE

• Senate Health Bill Clears Hurdle
  Saturday, Nov. 21, 2009
  
  
  
  
  The Senate voted 60-39 along party lines Saturday night to take up sweeping healthcare overhaul legislation, a victory that belies the tough haul ahead to assuage lingering Democratic concerns that threaten final passage.
  
  Four moderate Democrats - Sens. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut - have made clear they will help Republicans thwart final passage if Majority Leader Reid does not change the opt-out public plan in his $848 billion bill. Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, did not vote.
  
  "I've already alerted the leader, and I'm promising my colleagues, that I'm prepared to vote against moving to the next stage of consideration as long as a government-run public option is included," Lincoln said Saturday afternoon.
  
  Lincoln, preceded by Landrieu by about two hours, was the last Democratic holdout to reveal she would vote for cloture on the motion to proceed, giving Reid the 60th vote he needed to move forward on the bill.
  
  Senators will now scatter to their home states for Thanksgiving break and return Monday, Nov. 30, to begin debate on amendments. President Obama wants the Senate to pass the bill before Christmas. Saturday night's cloture vote, which doubled as a motion to proceed to the bill, allowed Reid to bring up his proposal as a substitute amendment.
  
  Immediately after the vote, Reid suggested the version of a public option in his bill could be altered.
  
  Asked in a post-vote press conference how he can line up 60 votes for his bill in the face of the moderates' opposition to its proposed national public option with a state opt-out, Reid appeared to open the door to a less-robust alternative being developed by Sen. Thomas Carper, D-Del., Landrieu and others.
  
  Reid said the group, which also includes Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., hopes "to find a public option that is acceptable to all the Democrats." Asked if he had requested the alternative, Reid said, "No, it is my understanding that Senator Landrieu said today that she is working with Senator Schumer and Carper."
  
  Carper's alternative would require a public option be established the same day exchanges created in the plan take effect, but only in states that do not meet a yet-to-be determined affordability standard for coverage. It would begin under HHS direction but eventually have a nonprofit, presidentially appointed board, Carper has said.
  
  But such an option would face opposition from liberals who could defect, public option backers said. "Four members of the Senate aren't gonna tell the other 55 what to do on these issues," said Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio. "I expect this bill to pass with a public option." Brown said he would not draw "lines in the sand" but said other liberals might. "We've compromised four times already," he said.
  
  Sen. John (Jay) Rockefeller, D-W.Va., another backer of a public option, downplayed Reid's statement, saying, "Harry has always said that. And he has always meant it."
  
  Landrieu insisted that any public option resemble a trigger approach championed by Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine. Landrieu wants the version to be a "free-standing, premium-support, competitive community option," rather than the national, government-run plan in the bill.
  
  Lincoln said private insurers can be held accountable without the public option.
  
  "We can still force private insurance plans that participate in the exchanges to provide standard benefit packages that are easy to compare and more fairly priced," she said. "We will be bringing millions of new customers to the exchanges so insurers would be motivated to lower their prices and be competitive."
  
  Lieberman previously said he would not support final passage of the bill if it includes a public option, and Nelson has expressed similar concerns.
  
  Nelson also has said he has concerns the legislation permits federal funding of abortions. The Senate overhaul proposal does not allow federal funds to be used for abortion except in extreme cases and tasks HHS with deciding if and how the public option might cover abortions.
  
  Senate Republicans presented a unified front in what aides described as a coordinated attack on Reid's bill in the past two days of floor debate and in media appearances, blasting the bill's size, cost and outcomes. In an effort directed by Senate Minority Leader McConnell and assisted by Senate Republican Conference Chairman Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, leadership aides arranged for about 15 GOP senators to appear on their local television and radio stations, while all but seven GOP senators spoke on the floor Friday and today, GOP aides said.
  
  "There has really been a team effort on making that happen," said a Republican leadership aide. "That doesn't always happen."
  
  McConnell said a vote in favor of this bill "is a vote in favor of tax burden of the American people in the middle of double-digit unemployment" raising "health insurance premiums on people who were told they should expect their health insurance costs to go down" and of continuing "the out-of-control spending binge Congress has been on all year."
  
  Reid said the vote was only a vote to debate the overhaul, not in support of anything.
  
  "Let us negotiate. Let us deliberate. Let us debate," Reid said. "Our country needs this debate."
  
  Republicans also lamented the party-line vote. The vote represents "the first time in half a century that a historic piece of legislation ... was enacted on party lines," said Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, whose vote Democrats still hope to win. "That would be a sad commentary on the political process."
  
  Snowe said it is one thing to debate these public option alternatives and "another thing whether or not they're prepared to incorporate bipartisan proposals."
  
  The vote came before a packed gallery, with senators sitting quietly in their seats, even though the outcome was effectively determined. Breaking the somber mood during the vote, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., laughing, in a voice audible in the press gallery, joked "What's going to happen?"
  __________________
  
  by Anna Edney and Dan Friedman

Even WITHOUT Obamacare, the Congressional Budget Office (not some right wing blog) says that by 2019 --in just ten years-- the national debt will increase to 24 trillion dollars. (Currently just over 12 trillion)
And that's without Obamacare that's projected to cost a trillion, and likely will cost at least 4 times that, using Medicare and Medicaid as clear past examples of underestimated projected cost.

Again: How is this sustainable? The Chinese are already looking to dump American treasury bill investments, and move to gold, real estate, and foreign oil investment. When they dump our treasury bills, hyperinflation will follow.

What this nation needs is not more spending, it's to stop the bleeding and cauterize the wound. And begin to pay down our debt.

Rasmussen poll

Voters Continue to See Deficit Reduction as Top Priority

• Friday, November 20, 2009
  
  
  While official Washington has seen many twists and turns in the legislative process this year, voter priorities have remained unchanged.
  
  Deficit reduction has remained number one for voters ever since President Obama listed his four top budget priorities in a speech to Congress in February. Forty-two percent (42%) say cutting the deficit in half by the end of the president's first term is most important, followed by 24% who say health care reform should be the top priority.
  
  Fifteen percent (15%) say the emphasis should be on the development of new energy sources, while 13% say the same about education. Those figures have changed little from a month ago.
  
  While voters have consistently seen deficit cutting as the most important, they also have seen it as the goal the president is least likely to achieve. Today, 62% hold that view.

And most significantly:

• Concern about the deficits and federal spending was highlighted in another new but separate survey. Most voters believe that canceling the remaining stimulus spending would create more jobs than spending it all.
  
  Adding to the challenge, voters see the goals of deficit reduction and health care reform as contradictory: 68% say passage of the health care plan will increase the deficit.

Matter-eater Man argumentative User Fair Play!
7500+ posts 17 seconds ago Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: Democrats Force A Vote on Healthcare Today

Your title isn't really honest WB. This was a vote for debate on the health care bill not a vote that passes the bill.

Your description isn't honest MEM, it isn't a healtchare bill but a actually a socialist power grab.