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Just curious. It wasn't attached to anything else. There were no riders. It would have benefited all the 9/11 First Responders medical aid for the cancers they got from being exposed to Ground Zero. So, all I can think is that the Republicans are so selfish, and self-centered, and greedy, and petty, as to fight it just because it came from the Democrats.

Oh, and don't think I'm joking. I'm dead sober, and dead serious. There is no fucking excuse for this. I yearn to hear the "reasoning" behind this decision.....

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A 9/11 Bonanza for Trial Lawyers:
  • The Senate will soon vote on legislation that would establish a new government-run health-care program with insufficient oversight controls, create a bonanza for trial lawyers, cost a minimum of $11.6 billion, and be funded primarily through a significant tax hike on U.S.-based companies.

    Of course, that’s not how the 9/11 Health and Compensation Act is being sold.

    On a surface level, the bill — which passed the House in September, over the resistance of most Republicans — may appear relatively uncontroversial: How could anyone oppose giving medical and financial benefits to the heroic first responders who suffered injury or illness while saving lives or cleaning up debris at Ground Zero? Unfortunately, the issues at stake aren’t nearly that simple.

    After 9/11, Congress rolled out a bevy of initiatives designed to address the health maladies of emergency workers affected by the World Trade Center attacks. The largest such initiative, run by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), has allocated $475 million to the relevant medical-care providers. There’s just one problem: Nobody — not even NIOSH director John Howard — can account for how all the grant money has been spent. The program is bedeviled by hopelessly inadequate supervision, which has led to rampant waste and, quite possibly, serious fraud.

    Rather than tackle these deficiencies and implement robust safeguards against the misuse of federal funds, the 9/11 Health and Compensation Act would effectively put the program on steroids — without clarifying its previous expenditures or correcting its severe administrative flaws. The opportunities for abuse would mushroom. We’re not opposed to a reasonable funding increase for the NIOSH scheme, provided its structural defects are fixed. But we are opposed to a new health-care entitlement that would lack proper accountability mechanisms and unleash a torrent of wasteful spending.

    Consider: The “World Trade Center Health Program” outlined in the 9/11 bill would distort provider incentives by reimbursing New York hospitals at an average rate well above the Medicare payment level. This would greatly encourage the provision of unnecessary or frivolous treatments. Moreover, services would be delivered without regard to beneficiary income; in other words, middle-class taxpayers would be subsidizing wealthy recipients. The total pool of recipients would include not just 9/11 workers, but also residents of Lower Manhattan who could demonstrate that the terrorist attacks had a deleterious impact on some aspect of their health. Determining the precise geographic-eligibility requirements for “local residents” could prove a thorny endeavor.

    That brings us to the Victim Compensation Fund (VCF), which closed up shop way back in 2003, after awarding roughly $7 billion to the 9/11 families. This legislation would revive the VCF and dramatically loosen its eligibility guidelines. Ground Zero workers and local residents — even those deemed ineligible for compensation by the original VCF — would be permitted to file claims through December 2031 (!). Meanwhile, trial lawyers would be able to garner a disproportionate share of windfall settlements.

    Democrats are advertising the bill with a $7.4 billion price tag, but that’s just the ten-year cost. Its total cost, including money allotted past 2020, would be (at a minimum) $11.6 billion. The funding source would be a hefty corporate-tax increase, which Republicans have rightly slammed. Supporters insist the legislation would merely plug tax “loopholes,” but its effect would nevertheless be a substantial tax hike on American companies at a time of 9.8 percent unemployment, lackluster economic growth, and a European debt crisis.

    Listening to Democrats such as Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand, the New York Senate duo, one might get the impression that Washington has heretofore neglected the 9/11 workers. That seems wildly unfair. In addition to launching the VCF ($7 billion), the NIOSH program ($475 million), and other health-care initiatives, Congress also established the $1 billion World Trade Center Captive Insurance Company (CIC). Last month, more than 95 percent of the 10,000-plus 9/11 workers who sued New York City several years ago finally agreed to accept a settlement worth between $625 million and $712.5 million. That money will come from the CIC.

    Again, we would favor a sensible bill narrowly tailored to assist the Ground Zero responders who developed an injury or illness while courageously risking their lives. But the 9/11 Health and Compensation Act is deeply flawed, and Senate Republicans should hold out for something better.


Assuming the above is correct, it sounds as if it's not a question of opposing benefits but of how the program is being set up.

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Yeah, I get that. But, these are the same guys that voted to send $15-bill to Iraq, even after something like $50-million went "missing". So, their excuse of not proper oversight is just bullshit in my opinion. This is partisan politics, as ever, and this time it's directly hurting those that need it to save their lives. I simply cannot accept any "political" answer to a very black-and-white issue. There's no real excuse...

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But even if you assume a fuck up in Iraq does that justify compounding problems by creating new fuck-ups? Especially when you look at how much worse the deficit's getting AND the spanking that free spending politicians in both parties just got at the polls.

Look at at the money that went down the hole from fraud in Katrina, for example. Why would we want another big fraud and waste like that again?

At the same time, if the GOP leadership doesn't come up with a counter-proposal quickly, or at least explain credibly that they tried to do so this time and Obama/Reid/Pelosi blocked it, you are correct that it looks (or will look) very bad.

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Sorry. I understand your rationale, but I don't agree. If we can send millions to Chile, and billions to Iraq, we can take care of the medical bills of a few thousand sick and dying heroes that ran into the towers that day. I simply cannot see it any other way. Nothing else makes sense to me. Justice is justice, and fair is fair.

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Likewise I understand your position. At the same time, there's a difference between foreign aid and domestic entitlement programs.

Foreign aid is relatively easy to cut off if there's a problem. Once an entitlement program gets going, trying to fix or end the program, even in the face of fraud or mismanagement, is near-impossible.

Look at how long it took to get some welfare reform passed in the 1990s, even with bipartisan support. And even with that reform I think we all know that waste, fraud and mismanagement still exist.

Really, if there's a problem, it's that congress can't just do this simply in the first place...or that they haven't figured out how to do it before now, nearly ten years later.

And, yeah, both parties deserve criticism for that.

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G, I'm honestly not trying to argue with you here. I see clearly that you understand my point, and the truth of what should be. And I thank you for at least engaging me in intelligent discussion on this. Perhaps I'm just too....idealistic? I don't know. But, I simply cannot see any reasoning...even as you explained it...in not helping these people. If we're going to "waste" money...and by God we will...then let's waste it on our own heroes. It just breaks my fucking HEART! \:\(

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No, you're arguing with me, but you're doing so fairly and civilly. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, it is heartbreaking. Like I said before everyone needs to account for how this ended up being a dropped ball for this long.

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 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
Yeah, I get that. But, these are the same guys that voted to send $15-bill to Iraq, even after something like $50-million went "missing". So, their excuse of not proper oversight is just bullshit in my opinion. This is partisan politics, as ever, and this time it's directly hurting those that need it to save their lives. I simply cannot accept any "political" answer to a very black-and-white issue. There's no real excuse...


I'm pretty sure over 2 billion went missing...just saying...


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Here's what I don't understand. The Dems passed Obamacare which supposedly ensures everyone health care coverage. why would you need a separate bill giving coverage to the first responders?

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Shhh. Questions about whether this 9/11 bill is designed to actually help people are not allowed under the regime.

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What does it fucking matter? That's not the point. Bringing up Obamacare has absolutely zero to do with the fact that the Republicans don't care about the heroes of 9/11. Fact. Cut-and-dried. Anything else is a distraction from the point...

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 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
Fact. Cut-and-dried.


Not fact, Pro. Opinion. Maybe they don't care; but you have no actual evidence to prove it. From what's been posted, it just looks like an attempt to try some semblance of responsibility to do it right. Not only do they have a responsibility to the first responders, but to us taxpayers to make sure our money is being used properly and not abused.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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 Quote:
What does it fucking matter? That's not the point. Bringing up Obamacare has absolutely zero to do with the fact


I was talking before about the idea that the program being proposed is not going to do what its proponents claim and/or create fraud and waste. If, in fact, there is now a program that should cover this (for example, Obamacare) then why is the program necessary?

Yes, BSASMS was snide in his comment and I riffed off that. However, it is still a legitimate policy question, sarcasm aside.

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I think some of it has to do with New York not being a red state. Red states tend to get more government money. I'm not saying it's intentional but if the towers had been in Texas, I doubt elected republicans would be the budget hawks they are in this instance.


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I think this last election has them watching the money a bit closer. They know if they don't slow the government spending, they're the next out.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
What does it fucking matter? That's not the point. Bringing up Obamacare has absolutely zero to do with the fact that the Republicans don't care about the heroes of 9/11. Fact. Cut-and-dried. Anything else is a distraction from the point...


Pro what's wrong with you? Are you MEM today?

I wasn't being argumentative. We now have Obamacare, which is going to be healthcare for everyone. So what is this vote really about? The Dems already got everyone healthcare, why are they voting on a package of healthcare for the responders? I don't know why, that's my question?

I'm guessing there is something extra in this politically and not for the responders.

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 Quote:
I'm guessing there is something extra in this politically and not for the responders.


As noted in the editorial I linked to, it's in part a big payoff to the trial lawyers groups.

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i skipped the article earlier due to time. but yeah it looks like that is the deal. i'm more inclined to be pissed that the Dems used the 9-11 responders as an excuse for lawyer stimulus. as noted the health care issue is now a non issue.

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I bet this ends up going through. The GOP has fought this but it seems to have gained more national attention.


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 Quote:
GOP under pressure for opposition to 9-11 responders bill

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By Lisa Mascaro and Tina Susman, Tribune Washington Bureau

December 20, 2010, 5:22 p.m.

WASHINGTON — Congressional Republicans are coming under growing criticism for their opposition to a bill that would provide medical care for Sept. 11 attack responders and survivors, including ailing police officers and firefighters.

As advocates press for Senate approval, Republican resistance to the measure has grown increasingly untenable. After the Sept. 11 attacks, the GOP fashioned itself as the party that celebrated the heroism of the Sept. 11 workers, but now is seen by many as stalling the health care of last resort.

"I can tell you, whoever votes against 9/11 responders a couple of days before Christmas is truly un-American," said John Feal, a former New York Police Department supervisor who lost a foot when a steel beam fell on it during in recovery efforts at the World Trade Center and who launched the non-profit Feal Good Foundation to lobby on behalf of first responders.

Further eroding the GOP's political position has been support for the legislation from prominent Republican leaders, including former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee. New York's senators now believe they have the votes to overcome a Republican filibuster in a vote that may be held as early as Tuesday.

"We are on the verge of an eleventh-hour breakthrough," said Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.)

Passage even now may come too late for many. Rev. Stephan (cq) Petrovic of Ohio, a chaplain who tended to the dead and dying at the World Trade Center and who now is in hospice care, does not expect to see another Christmas. Petrovic, his voice barely audible, suffered lung damage he said resulted from breathing dust at Ground Zero following the attack.
...

latimes.com


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I'd hit that

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Brilliant piece by Fox News.

It's too bad that the lockstep Republicans who voted against helping the First Responders thought that the tax cut was more important, though...


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Why did the Democrats, who had overwhelming majorities in the Senate and Congress the last 4 years, and the Presidency the last two years, wait until scant weeks before the elected Republicans seize power to even raise the issue?
When they could have voted for it any time in the last 4 years.


Because in truth it wasn't a priority to the Democrats.
Because like their "Dream Act" latest version of amnesty for illegals, like their START treaty with the Russians, it wasn't a priority, and they're only raising it now to demonize the Republicans.

Anyone with eyes can see the obvious, that if the Dems really wanted these things to pass, they wouldn't include earmarks, wouldn't propose new spending with a lack of funding, and other rushed provisions they know are completely unacceptable to the Republicans, and guarantee the Republicans cannot support them.

Who's the bad guy?
The Republicans who won't vote for flawed legislation on its (lack of) merit?
Or the Democrats who calculated its failure before it was ever presented to the Republicans, and excluded Republicans from a part in writing the legislation, that would have allowed it to pass?

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 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Who's the bad guy?
The Republicans

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 Originally Posted By: Prometheus
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Who's the bad guy?
The Republicans


That was a pretty infantile response.

Nice bypass of the legitimate points I raised.

If the Democrats really wanted to help these 9/11 relief workers, they had 4 whole years to do it, while they had an overwhelming majority.
This is just another example of the Democrats posturing, and scapegoating the Republicans for the Dems' own failures. And manifests that the 9/11 rescue workers are a rock-bottom priority, except to exploit as a political football, while not actually helping them.

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It seems like this legislation is focusing on the "first responders". I originally thought this was also more about the clean-up workers and stuff that inhaled all the toxic fumes (asbestos, etc) in the weeks following 911? The first responders were getting paid to do the stuff they do...the clean-up workers were volunteer types that were told by the EPA that the air was safe to breath.

Don't the first responders already have medical insurance, disability, and retirements and crap? They get paid to do dangerous work. This legislation, in it's wording and focus, somehow shifted from the volunteers if I'm not mistaken...those people are the ones that need help.


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that doesn't matter, the Republicans are evil.

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http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/story/2011-09-10/Thousands-of-911-responders-are-ill/50338744/1


 Quote:
Jeff Rosenzweig began coughing about six months after he began volunteering at ground zero on Sept. 12, 2001.

He tried throat lozenges, but the cough seemed to just get worse. For awhile, "I couldn't stop coughing," said Rosenzweig, a chiropractor, registered nurse and former emergency medical technician who is co-owner of Monmouth Total Health Care in Eatontown. "It was irritating."

He went to the clinic at the Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences Institute (EOHSI) in Piscataway in 2003 and was diagnosed with the "9/11 hack," also known as World Trade Center cough.

Since then, Rosenzweig, 52, has also been diagnosed with sinus problems, gastrointestinal issues and sleep apnea, he said.

Rosenzweig's case is typical. He's one thousands of paid and unpaid responders who developed health issues after being exposed to the smoke, dust and gases following the collapse of the twin towers, according to experts. Many are worried they may get cancer at some point, and initial studies suggest a link between 9/11 exposures and cancer.

In January, President Barack Obama signed the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010. The $4.2 billion law will cover health care costs for responders and others for five years and provide compensation for victims' families and people injured as a result of 9/11.

The law is named after a 34-year-old New York City police detective who suffered from respiratory problems after 9/11. He died in 2006.

MILLIONS OF TONS(AT)

Paul J. Lioy, director of the Exposure Science Division at EOHSI, said the vast majority of the 5 million to 10 million tons of material in the World Trade Center's twin towers turned to dust when they collapsed on 9/11.

"It was unprecedented in terms of the complex characteristics of the materials released," said Lioy, who wrote a book called "Dust: The Inside Story of its role in the September 11th Aftermath."

Most of the materials included gypsum, concrete and manmade fibers, such as glass. Contaminants in particles included quartz, chrysotile asbestos, zinc, iron and lead, according to a scientific article by Lioy and his colleague, Panos Georgopoulos.

The alkalinity, very large particles, thin fibers and gases were major contributors to what led to the World Trade Center cough and other health problems for workers who were there within first 12 to 72 hours after the collapse, Lioy said.

No one will ever know what gases were in the air because there were no devices to measure them, he said.

"People went into harm's way, but they went into harm's way because they were trying to rescue people," Lioy said.

LOTS OF SICK PATIENTS(AT)

Dr. Iris G. Udasin, professor of environmental and occupational medicine and director of the Clinical Center of Excellence for World Trade Center responders at EOHSI, said some people had respirators, but they were too cumbersome to use. Many people did not have the proper equipment, she said.

About 50,000 responders and probably an additional 100,000 or so people who lived in the ground zero area are sick, said Udasin.

Eleven clinical centers in New York City, Long Island and Piscataway have been established to treat 9/11 responders, according to the World Trade Center Health Program.

About 1,700 people have gone to the clinical center in Piscataway over the years, and many of them are still coming, Udasin said.

Some of the most common symptoms are linked to respiratory issues, including sinusitis, laryngitis and asthma, Udasin said. Many people also have gastrointestinal issues, such as gastro esophageal reflux disease (GERD), she said. GERD results in stomach contents leaking back into the esophagus, irritating it, according to the National Institutes of Health.

Others have developed sleep apnea, Udasin said. Sleep apnea is when breathing stops or gets very shallow, interrupting sleep.

Many people also have mental health issues, including post-traumatic stress disorder and depression, Udasin said.

"The typical person is not disabled from the World Trade symptoms, but they need to take medication and we need to monitor them to make sure they don't get worse," she said.

Udasin said "we can't make an association between cancer and World Trade at this point," but experts think they might have seen an elevated level of multiple myeloma. Researchers found eight cases of multiple myeloma, a cancer of plasma cells, among 28,252 responders, according to a study that Udasin coauthored. Four cases -- an unusually high number -- were in men less than 45 years old, the study says.

"The finding underscores the importance of maintaining surveillance for cancer and other emerging diseases in this highly exposed population," the study says.

A recent federal review found that there's not enough evidence so far to add cancer to the list of World Trade Center-related health conditions. But cancer can't be ruled out at this point, the review says.

A recent study of 8,927 New York City firefighters showed "a modest excess of cancer cases."

VOLUNTEERING AT GROUND ZERO(AT)

Rosenzweig said he went to Ground Zero to provide medical care and other assistance to rescuers.

It was very dusty and the air quality was poor, he said.

He didn't wear a mask for the first couple of days he was there, he said. After that, he began wearing an N95 respirator -- until he moved indoors nearby, he said.

An N95 respirator filters at least 95 percent of airborne particles, according to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health.

Rosenzweig said he spent a couple of days a week at Ground Zero for the first two weeks and one day a week after that until May 2002. He usually worked about eight hours a day, he said.

Six months after he began volunteering, "my wife was making me aware that I was coughing all the time and it was annoying her, and she kept saying, 'You gotta do something about that cough,'" he said.

Rosenzweig, who praised Udasin and the EOHSI clinical center, now takes medication for GERD. And his cough is 85 percent better than it was, he said.

He also uses Flonase for his sinuses and washes his nasal passages, he said.

But "sleep is still an issue," he said, adding that he wears a mask that blows air into his nose.

"At the time, I did what I thought was right," Rosenzweig said. "I just did my thing, did what I thought I had skills for. With that, I don't blame anybody for this."

"I think my wife is more concerned than I am," he said. "I would do it again. I just feel an obligation. I would do it again without hesitation."

(UNDERSCORE)(UNDERSCORE)

Contributing: New Jersey Press Media archives.

(UNDERSCORE)(UNDERSCORE)

9/11 RESPONDER ILLNESSES

The Mount Sinai World Trade Center Clinical Center of Excellence and Data Center in New York City evaluated more than 27,000 police officers, construction workers, firefighters and municipal workers over nine years following Sept. 11, 2001. Here are the results:

- 28 percent of patients had asthma, 42 percent had sinusitis and 39 percent had gastro esophageal reflux disease (GERD).

- 42 percent of patients had abnormal lung function tests, which are signs of lung injury.

- 7 percent of police officers were diagnosed with depression, 9 percent with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and 8 percent with panic disorder.

- 28 percent of other rescue and recovery workers had symptoms of depression; 32 percent experienced PTSD symptoms and 21 percent had symptoms in line with panic disorder.

- Nearly 10 percent of rescue and recovery workers had asthma, sinusitis and GERD at the same time.

- 48 percent of rescue workers with asthma, 38 percent with sinusitis and 43 percent with GERD were also diagnosed with at least one mental health condition.

Source: Mount Sinai Hospital/Mount Sinai School of Medicine.


We are more concerned with trail lawyers making money than the health of the First Responders.

Signed,

The G-bsams


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15000+ posts 09/10/11 11:16 AM Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: Why did the Republicans deny 9/11 First Responders medical relief?


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\:damn\:


go.

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Point of information: The republicans and democrats agreed on a compromise bill last December and it passed congress at that time. Your own article even says that the aid bill was signed into law shortly thereafter.

You really should read your own sources before you post them. \:lol\:

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Point of information: The republicans and democrats agreed on a compromise bill last December and it passed congress at that time.


No shit. Really?



Bet you were pissed. Those responder leeches getting taken care of on the taxpayer's dime and all.

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Yep, politicians playing the game, as usual. While everyone was focused on it, they caved. When they deceived us by saying, "Look here it is! Help for our heroes!", we accepted it with the understanding that just because there is political differences here, we're all still human.

But, no. Good old politicians. Good old Republicans. Good old Democrats. They pass a fake bill that will give aspirin to cancer victims. Thanks you lying fucking sacks of shit. I hope each one of you burns in hell. Better yet, I hope it's YOUR house the "terrorists" hit next time. And I hope no one is there to pull you out....


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