RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books All-Star Squadron

I know The Time Trust was also an avid reader, but did anyone else get into this during the 80s?

Never in the 80s, but I did read many of them recently when tracking down Earth-Two Superman's appearances. It seems the writers really knew what they were doing back then, fusing actual WWII events with many Golden Age publications. It got interesting when Ultra-Humanite used the Powerstone to contact his/her future ape self telepathically.

This was an enjoyable series. They had the coolest headquarters. The original core members were fun and the huge membership of so many golden age characters made this a must buy for me.

Frickin' Legion of Superheroes, essentially, but in WW2.

I started off with issue 9 in 1982 - I was 13! Missed a lot of the early issues and I'm thinking about tracking them down.

The writer was Roy Thomas, who coind the term "retcon" because of his efforts to create reasons for changes to characters back in the 1940s (in the 1940s, the writers didn't care obviously and just did random stuff for no reason). Thus, he provided explanations as to why Dr Fate suddenly had half a helmet with his face exposed, and with different powers; why the Atom, Tarantula, and the Sandman changed uniforms; how the 1970s short lived miniseries set in the war called Steel integrated into the 1940s continuity; why Starman reconquered the Aluetian Islands from the Japanese (it was actually a dream created by Brainwave) and so on.

Probably the biggest explanation was why the JSA/All Star Squadron just didn't invade Germany and Japan (Hitler had a mystic weapon, the Spear of Destiny, that would corrupt heroes with magical powers (or in the case of Superman, suspectibility to magic).

Jerry Ordway was the artist for the first two years, and this was at a time when the man was at the height of his powers (his more recent work has been pretty sloppy) and so the art is really very nice. Around the same time Don Heck took over from George Perez on JLA on the art. Heck is a terrible artist. The comparison between the art of Squadron and the art of the flagship JLA title was striking.

Thomas would also do retcons that created more diversity in the golden age. In ASS he created a female Firebrand that I thought worked out pretty well. There was also Amazing Man who had a decent power but a crappy costume. Towards the end of the run he also gave Liberty Belle sonic powers and a cape. Can't say I really cared for that change but did like Tarantula's new costume. His Marvel version of JSA he also created one of my favorite retcon heroes, Spitfire.

As for Don Heck being a terrible artist, back than I would have very much agreed. My JLA subscription started when he started and I felt cheated. There was something about the way he drew eyes that I really disliked. Now many years later I actually feel a bit of nostalgia with some of his runs. I look back at his Teen Titans and Batgirl work with fondness.

Tarantula's new costume was indeed good. Firebrand was good. Amazing Man was good. I also liked the Infinity Inc crossover a lot.

Oddly enough my favourite character from the series was the villain, Cyclotron. He was a reluctant bad guy extorted into being a bad guy by Ultra-Humanite.

Favourite story was when Green Lantern destroys Japan in the Brainwave sequence. Awesome.

I like Jerry Ordway but not Roy Thomas, usually. Is there a big collection of all this stuff?

I enjoyed it for the first 30 issues or so, and for reasons I can't recall beyond that lost interest. But it was a great series, and Roy Thomas' love for the original 1940's ALL-STAR COMICS is clear, with so many beautiful enhancements of continuity. I especially recall the first 6 issues by Rich Buckler (plus a Buckler preview story in JLA 193), and 2 years or so of stories by Adrian Gonzalez and Jerry Ordway.

My favorite story of all in the series was ALL STAR SQUADRON ANNUAL 1 (1982) by Thomas, Gonzalez/Ordway, that beautifully tied together the origins of the Atom (golden age), The Guardian, and Wildcat.

I got energized again with the 1987 series YOUNG ALL-STARS, with pulp-hero-like versions replacing Wonder Woman and Superman, because their golden age versions were wiped out of existence in CRISIS.






Plus beautiful art by Brian Murray and Michael Bair, that I thought was more reflective of golden age art.

Pre-CRISIS.

Post-CRISIS.

"ASS"



What an acronym!

I agree that Roy Thomas can be a bit text-heavy and pseudo Shakespearian in his stilted dialogue, particularly on period-set titles like CONAN, THOR and ARAK.

And he packs so much story into every page that it sometimes reads more like a plot synopsis than a story.

But at his best, he scripts some great stories, such as "Hawks From the Sea" in CONAN THE BARBARIAN 19 and 20 (with Barry Smith art).
And "The Haunting of Castle Crimson" in SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN 12 (by Thomas, Buscema/Alcala).
And the aforementioned ALL-STAR SQUADRON ANNUAL 1.

And CONAN THE ADVENTURER 1 (by Thomas and Kayanan)


On the question of "is there a big collection of this stuff?", I see there's a SHOWCASE collection of the ALL-STAR books. But I'd frankly have them in color, in original form. Which you can probably buy on ebay as a set cheap.

It wouldn't surprise me if sooner or later DC collected ASS as a TPB.

The ASS acronym was discussed by Thomas in the letters pages in one issue. You get the impression he hadn't thought about it.

I liked Thomas' work on ASS and Infinity Inc, but didn't read any of his other stuff, other than one of his Thor stories where Balder gets shot and dies as a prelude to Ragmarok.

I gave up about 10 or so issues after Ordway left: the new art wasn't so good and the stories started to lose momentum.

Quick! Someone stole the Superfriends!

I was never that keen on the Young All-Stars thing. It seemed to me that thomas was stretching his Crisis fix too far. I didn't care for the new characters. I wanted the grandeur of the WW2 JSA.

Roy Thomas actually tried to give the YOUNG ALL-STARS series a progession over a 5 year period of the series that approximated something resembling the real time of World War II. Although the series was cancelled before it got there.
If you're interested in a more nonfiction account of W W II, there was a book I saw and wish I'd picked up (I always regret later not buying) World War II: Day by Day, an oversized hardcover with lots of newsclips and photos, that follow the daily news of World War II each day for the duration of the war, just as someone living through the period would have seen it. I thought it was a pretty cool idea of how to format a book on the subject. And would be a great reference to any JSA writer portraying the period.

I have to admit, a big pull for me was the art of Brian Murray and Michael Bair, mostly in the first 10 issues. Whose styles naturally gelled with, or consciously mimicked, or both, the better Golden Age linestyle and page layouts of the 40's era, which added to the series.


Thomas, Bair and Murray (along with many other artists) also did many single issues of SECRET ORIGINS (late 80's run), in roughly 25 of the 50 issues, giving origin solo stories of JSA characters during the same years.
For anyone familiar with YOUNG ALL STARS and INFINITY INC, and craving more, who wasn't already in the know.

they completely forgot about GA GA (Golden Age Green Arrow) and Speedy. which is hilarious because GA Speedy disappears after the 7 Soldiers where revived in the 70's and he doesn't even appear in Crisis.

I loved All Star back in the day. great book until Crisis pretty much destroyed it's reason for existence. never cared for Infinity Inc. or Young All-Stars.

Just realised no Commander Steel in that shot. Where was he by the end of the series?

last I saw, he got tossed over to Earth 1 during the Crisis, landing somewhere in Nazi occupied Europe. don't know the full details of his life but Steel from JL Detroit was his grandson.

Yeah, the move of Steel from Earth 2 to Earth 1 was part of CRISIS, and happened in ALL-STAR SQUADRON 50. At some point after that, they killed him off.

Then they re-introduced a new Steel character to replace him, and teamed him up in roughly JLA 230-260 with Vibe, Gypsy, and Vixen. A lackluster team which arguably killed the book.
I don't recall Steel having any part in YOUNG ALL-STARS, but did appear in a few issues of INFINITY INC.

When I first saw that issue with the team photo changing I always thought they should have kept Captain Marvel, Jr. and Mary Marvel in the WW2 period. With no Superman it would have been a good spot for them.

The problem with that was that DC had already decided to integrate Cap Into mainstream post crisis continuity. They also planned on rebooting him in the present day. They couldn't really have Capt. Marvel Junior and Mary Marvel in the 40s before Capt. Marvel himself ever existed

Huh. I thought Captain Marvel was a Golden Age character?

Ah yes, sorry, I did know that. Completely forgot.

Isn't it interesting that no one has done a WW1 superhero comic? (Enemy Ace doesn't count.)

No it wouldn't have worked dividing them up time period wise but I wished they had left them in the 40's together. With Superman around, Captain Marvel will always be sidelined. If they had left him and the gang in the 40's maybe they could have kept some of the elements that worked originally. Moot point now anyways since even the JSA is all rebooted these days. I haven't kept up with the changes but I suppose there were now no superheroes during DC's golden age?

LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN almost qualifies.

Not really. 1910 is, obviously, pre-WW1 and barely qualifies as a superhero comic, other than that Raffles wears a mask.



I actually don't know. I'd be floored if they changed that.

Yep, they said Superman is the first superhero again.

Get fucked. Really?

No thanks, but yes. That's why all the JSA guys ended up in Earth 2.

Oh, right. So there are no JSA guys on Earth 1 at all?

That's a bit of crap, actually. Part of the appeal of those characters is that they have a heritage based in WW2.

I don't understand DC's editorial thinking on their reboot. They unravel Crisis on Infinite Earths, and suddenly there are universes galore, catering to the Elseworlds characters, Frank Millar's universe, blah blah. Then, poof! All wiped out. Massive change in editorial orientation. I should have a dig around some time and see what they were thinking.

They could have at least pushed WW2 forward to the present on Earth 2. In this reality Hitler is from the US and posts teenage porn on forums.

I think it was about time for a reboot anyway, but it could have been handled better. There's too much editorial bullshit going on in DC, with creators being bullied or fired left and right, and that shows in the ugly fucking comics. It's a mess.

Unless it turns out the sitxteen year olds are enjoying that stuff. Then it's all worth it because they should be target audience for superheroes.

16-year olds, dude.

Your Wonder Boy obsession is tearing this board apart.

Are you admitting that Wonder Boy is Hitler?

Hitler? I barely knew her!

I'd hit that.

DC's editorial staff are being moved from NY to Burbank California next year. They're all unhappy about it.

This is what you do when you want to sack your staff en masse - make them uproot their lives if they want to keep their jobs.

yeah, there is no "Golden Age" in the current DCU. the history of the Nu52verse only goes back five years.