I was all for working toward winding down our presence in Afghanistan, but this is a clusterfuck.
I get it. What we've been doing most of the past twenty years is choosing the "least bad option" left on the table after pivoting toward Iraq.
That said, I still have no idea why the fuck the Trump administration decided to take an option way off from the "least bad option" and negotiate with the Taliban at the expense of the Afghan government's legitimacy.
And, finally, Biden comes in and only modifies a deal not agreed to by Congress added to the fact that the Taliban had already been in clear violation of when Trump was still president and still decides on such a dumbfuck withdrawal.
The only cold comfort out of this so far is that the Taliban has to back off because we sent even more troops on an evac mission and that--maybe--partners within the Taliban coalition could temper Taliban oppressiveness.
GOP Removes Page Praising Donald Trump's 'Historic' Peace Deal With Taliban
The Republican National Committee has removed a webpage from 2020 in which it praised Donald Trump for signing a "historic peace agreement with the Taliban."
David Weigel, of The Washington Post, was the first to spot that the page had been removed with the web address redirecting to a 404 error page featuring the quip: "It looks like you're as lost as Biden is."
The Guardian's congressional reporter Hugo Lowell later confirmed the webpage's removal after successfully tracking down the now-deleted page via The Wayback Machine digital archive.
Trump in April: “Getting out of Afghanistan is a wonderful and positive thing to do. I planned to withdraw on May 1st, and we should keep as close to that schedule as possible.”
It’s just shocking that after 20 years it fell apart so quickly but maybe it shouldn’t have been so shocking. We negotiated a withdrawal not with the Afghan government but with the taliban.
The fact that it fell apart so quickly is testament to the incompetence with which the Biden administration conducted the withdrawal. PERIOD.
While Trump was president, he had moved in a general direction toward a withdrawal, but he clearly would have changed course and remained indefinitely if ground conditions warranted it. Trump would not have given it all away, and let them seize our military bases, with all our planes and helicopters and tanks and sophisticated drones, as Biden did. Quite the opposite, Trump made an instant display of power in every incident during his 4 years. Trump quickly crushed and defeated ISIS in Iraq/Syria (that Biden and Obama could not do in 8 years), Trump stood up to China both militarily and economically, he crippled Russia's ability to wage war, enacting the most punishing sanctions ever placed on Russia, plus ramping up U.S. oil and natural gas production to sell to Europe, further displacing Russia from oil revenue to fund their wars. Trump threatened to completely destroy North Korea if they Kim Jong Un continued his aggressive actions, and it stopped. After becoming president, Trump immediately gave significant military aid to Ukraine, and firmly sided with Ukraine against further Russian invasion into their country.
Don't even try to say Trump is responsible for Afghanistan, or that he wouldn't have done a better job, not only pushing back the Taliban advances, but preventing those advances in the first place. Trump displayed his resolve for 4 years to not allow aggression against the United States, to not let it go unpunished, and to deter it with immediate resolve and willingness to use military force. But at less cost to the nation, Trump preferred and masterfully used economic power and sanctions like no past president, to fight effectively without guns or casualties. Trump made the point in pushing back against against Iran aggression, but did so without starting another war (despite pressure to do so by Democrats and neo-con Republicans like the quickly-fired John Bolton). Trump's authorizing the killing of Iran's General Suleimani put a huge dent in further Iran-funded terror in the middle east. And the Abraham accord further deterred Iran. But then afther Jan 20th, Biden threw a wrench in a machine that was working, immediately pourng money into Iran, almost the day he was inaugurated. And within 3 months, Biden-funded and Iran-supplied missiles were raining down on Israel from the Gaza side of the border.
I got a really bad feeling a week ago, when Biden just had our military withdraw from Afghan bases in the middle of the night, with no advance announcement or planning with the Afghan government or the Afghan military. Just quietly and completely disappeared in the middle of the night ! THAT is I think the exact moment Afghanistan was lost. It undermined the Afghan military's confidence in their ability to stand on their own, and knocked them off balance, with no time to prepare a defense, no time to fill the void of the U.S.'s sudden absence. And the Taliban took full advantage of the situation.
If the stakes were not so dire, it would be comedic, how secretary of state Antony Blinkin said on Friday that all was not lost, that the situation was under control, and "It's not like it's imminent, that in 3 days they'll have taken Kabul." And then, on Monday, they absolutely did over-run Kabul, and the Afghan president had fled to Tajikistan. Complete incompetence.
It's ridiculous to blame this on Trump, Biden had the power to completely re-negotiate U.S. presence in Afghanistan before anything happened. Or when the Taliban launched their offensive, Biden could have immediately sent in U.S. troops to secure the country, or have them ready, to in advance deter what occurred. Biden could have carpet-bombed the hell out of the Taliban. But because Biden and his inner circle of incompetents sat on their hands and did nothing, the Taliban quickly over-ran 85% of the country, and then the entire country, including the capital, in about 8 days.
And worse even than Tehran was in 1979, instead of 52 hostages, there are now 11,000 trapped Americans in Afghanistan as potential hostages, trapped in their homes, unable to travel on roads to the airport because of Taliban occupying the roads. In addition to about 70,000 Afghans who helped the U.S. in the Afghan war, who if they stay will be beheaded by the Taliban. And as we speak, Taliban forces are going house to house and abducting and raping their wives and daughters, to be sold as concubine slaves, or worse.
And already, China is making threats of invading Taiwan now, as a direct result. Ready to again pounce on Biden's weakness. What is scary is that not only is Biden weak and incompetent, but EVERYONE IN HIS ADMINISTRATION is incompetent, there is no one that can be trusted to save us. If China invades Taiwan, and we get into a war, the Biden leadership would hose away our entire military, and there would be nothing left to protect the country itself. It is that dire. These Biden officials are the same incompetent U.S. military leaders who organized the Dec 2011 premature withdrawal from Iraq, that spawned the bloody rise of ISIS across Iraq/Syria, and further spread across 40 islamic states.
In the longer term, with the Taliban, they are already chanting "death to America" in the streets, and Taliban leaders interviewed have openly said they want to spread their attacks all the way to the United States. Said to a CNN reporter, no less, the CNN reporter saying "Oh it's actually a very happy occasion, they're very peaceful." Yeah, except for the beheading and raping. CNN echoing their Summer 2020 coverage of "mostly peaceful demonstrations" as an entire city block was on fire behind the reporter.
Losing wars has consequences. And the Soviet Union's loss of their war in Afghanistan in 1989 brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union. The significance of this should not be under-estimated or trivialized. Against a rising China, a rising Iran, a nuclear-armed lunatic North Korea, a resurgent expanding Russia that (thanks to Biden) has a sudden flood of oil revenue to fund their aggression. And the paved way for resurgence of both ISIS an Al Qaida, we have the perfect wrong leader in the White House.
Kash Patel, Trump's Pentagon chief of staff up until Jan 20th, lays out in great detail the terms and conditions of Trump's CONDITIONAL plan to leave Afghanistan, that required the Taliban to 1) renounce Al Qaida, and 2) negotiate a coalition government with the existing Afghan administration, and 3) if any Americans were harmed, Trump gave Patel orders for the U.S. to come roaring back into Afghanistan with the full wrath of the U.S. government, and 4) even after withdrawal, Trump authorized leaving behind a strong counter-intelligence force (remaining eyes and ears on the ground in Afghanistan)on the lookout to prevent a rise-of-ISIS type situation after U.S. withdrawal. Joe Biden scrapped all this.
That's quite a bit different from the lying Democrat/liberal media lying narrative, where they and Biden try to scapegoat Trump as the cause , instead of Joe Biden ABANDONING that very structured and conditional Trump withdrawal plan.
. Sean Hannity last night also had an exceptionally good overview of the facts , and commentary - Aug 17 2021
Hannity's report is that the Biden administration might actually be low-balling the number of Americans in Afghanistan at abut 10,000, but there may be as many as 40,000 Americans trapped there.
Also infuriating is that President Biden was vacationing at Camp David during the week Taliban forces have been over-running the country, and came out for a 19-minute press statement, then went right back to vacationing in Camp David. Likewise, press secretary Jenn Psaki could not be reached, and just posted a message that she would be on vacation from August 16th-23rd ! While America burns, they can't even be expected to show up to deal with it. The same day OPEC said they won't be increasing oil production for an oil-starved U.S. (because the U.S. cut domestic oil production, and now we can't get it from foreign sources either. After we'd been oil-independent for the first time in 70 years under President Trump. And as illegal immigration continues to explode across our southern border, at a time where Covid infections are escalating due to thousands of infected illegals a day entering. And that unsecured border invites terrorists to enter as illegals to conduct attacks.
. Mark Levin, who consistently is right on the pulse of what is occurring, likewise has insightful commentary.
In particular: why in hell would Biden pull out our military forces before U.S. civilians there were evacuated, and instead left unprotected?
And that pulling out right now leaves Afghanistan a greater danger to the United States than existed on Sept 11 2001, since they will now have the backing and protection of China, Russia and Iran, that the Taliban (and possibly Al Qaida as well) did not have from 2001 till now.
Only blind partisans try to rename the thread because they can't keep their biases out of everything.
You seem to be oblivious to how partisan your own opinion is.
One might even call your opinion... a screed.
Originally Posted by Iggy
was all for working toward winding down our presence in Afghanistan, but this is a clusterfuck.
I get it. What we've been doing most of the past twenty years is choosing the "least bad option" left on the table after pivoting toward Iraq.
That said, I still have no idea why the fuck the Trump administration decided to take an option way off from the "least bad option" and negotiate with the Taliban at the expense of the Afghan government's legitimacy.
And, finally, Biden comes in and only modifies a deal not agreed to by Congress added to the fact that the Taliban had already been in clear violation of when Trump was still president and still decides on such a dumbfuck withdrawal.
The only cold comfort out of this so far is that the Taliban has to back off because we sent even more troops on an evac mission and that--maybe--partners within the Taliban coalition could temper Taliban oppressiveness.
This is obscene.
The title change was to accurately describe what the topic is about, rather than "shit show", like a 12-year old would use to describe the situation.
It is not partisan to accurately describe what is occurring as a direct result of Biden abandoning all the planning and rules put in place by Trump officials to leave Afghanistan stable after our departure, and not even secure the safety of thousands of U.S. citizens, and tens of thousands more Afghans who assisted us, who are now being slaughtered by the Taliban.
So using a decent vocabulary to discuss a political topic qualifies as rage?
You're the one who, for years now, displays a pathological aggression and need to hurl insults and profanity, rather than just have a polite discussion of the facts. Your weird obsession and petty personal vendetta continues. This extends now from the Occupy Wall Street topic, way back. That's... what now... 11 years you've been wanking and crying about the butt-hurt you suffered back then?
Biden is hardly blameless here but it’s pretty obscene to leave out Trump’s hand in this. I actually saw an article from the ny post with Pence blaming Biden over the taliban for not keeping the original agreement. But I guess if it was our capitol instead we would be hearing about how the Taliban our “special people” that are actually loving the people they are beating, killing and overthrowing.
Biden is hardly blameless here but it’s pretty obscene to leave out Trump’s hand in this. I actually saw an article from the ny post with Pence blaming Biden over the taliban for not keeping the original agreement. But I guess if it was our capitol instead we would be hearing about how the Taliban our “special people” that are actually loving the people they are beating, killing and overthrowing.
Specifically WHAT did Trump do wrong? Except for move toward ending an unpopular war in Afghanistan, after 20 years there. The difference is Trump moved toward leaving Afghanistan in a responsible way that reqired a coalition government of Afghans before we left, and an orderly withdrawal, but a withdrawal that was conditional on non-aggression by the Taliban, and Trump would never have abandoned 10,000 to 40,000 Americans in Afghanistan, he would have withdrawn them before military forces, and not left them as essentially the largest group of hostages in world history.
See the comments above by KT McFarland, and by Kash Patel. Multiple other officials and military staffers have said the same thing, including the head of the contract military company Blackwater. There absolutely was a plan to protect Americans, and Afghans families who assisted us. And to leave Afghanistan as a stable country, and not wide open to again becoming a training ground to attack the Untied States. Biden utterly destroyed a clearly mapped out plan, and he alone is responsible for the chaos that has resulted. It's ridiculous to blame Trump for Biden rejecting and destroying all Trump's plans for an orderly Afghan withdrawal, conditional on a stable coalition government being in place. Instead of continuing with that plan, Biden literally abandoned the country and fled our military bases there, literally just disappearing in the middle of the night, no attempt at coordination with the Afghans. That is exactly why the country collapsed in a week.
I can agree that throughout the W. Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden administrations, military leaders and war profiteers deliberately misled our Pentagon , White House administrations, House/Senate leadership, and the taxpayers how unprepared the Afhgan military actually was, what illiterate, corrupt, and poor soldiers they were, doing so either to make the U.S. military look like they were doing a better job than they actually were, and/or so contractors could continue reaping profits for 20 years. But as I understand it, Biden withdrew from Afghanistan the way he did [against the advice of his Defense secretary, his National Security advisor, and Joint Chiefs chairman Mike Milley. I have no love for these guys, but Biden even rejected the common sense offered by THEM. And as a direct result, between 10,000 to 40,000 Americans are now trapped there, amid a killing field all around them, that they may soon become a part of. Trump is absolutely not responsible for that, Biden absolutely is.
“ Trump came to office promising to end the war. In characteristic fashion, he acted so impulsively and with such lack of discipline, that he single-handedly undercut the so-called "peace" negotiations in Doha, Qatar, between the Taliban and the United States that concluded last year More on that in a moment. But, first, let's note that the man leading the current Taliban offensive, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar -- the jihadi cleric who may become the next president of Afghanistan or, formally, the Emir of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan -- was being held in Pakistani and might still be there were it not for Trump. In 2018, the Trump team asked Pakistan to free Baradar so he could travel to Doha for talks. In Trump's eyes, Baradar may have looked a bit like North Korea's Kim Jong Un, the leader he could try to sweet talk and coax, showering him with praise while extracting essentially nothing from him, while drawing attention to himself and his theatrical "boldness". In 2019, Trump wanted to bring the Taliban to Camp David, and he wanted to do it just in time for the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. His advisers persuaded him that bringing the leaders of a group responsible for killing thousands -- including thousands of Americans -- and still engaged in regular attacks against Afghan civilians, was not the best of ideas. Trump relentlessly, cluelessly sabotaged peace talks, proclaiming his determination to pull out, and unexpectedly announcing troop reductions. His tweets became a major obstacle to negotiations, as he declared he was withdrawing US forces, the only leverage of US negotiators, without obtaining any real concessions from the Taliban.
In February 2020, Trump unveiled an agreement with the Taliban. The deal was an utter embarrassment, one of the worst ever negotiated by an American president. Under its terms, the United States not only agreed to withdraw by May 2021, it also committed itself to obtaining the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners, and another thousand in subsequent months, fortifying the Taliban's fighting force. The US also promised to help lift all international sanctions against the Taliban. In exchange, the Taliban promised not to attack Americans until they left, and agreed to start talks with the Afghan government. The supposed negotiations with Afghan representatives went nowhere, but the Americans started leaving. Trump kept tweeting he was pulling out the troops, removing any incentive for the Taliban to compromise. Afghan civilians were not fooled by Trump's so-called peace deal. Watching the signing, 28-year-old activist Zahra Husseini told AFP, "Today is a dark day...I had this bad feeling that it would result in [the Taliban's] return to power rather than in peace." She was right. But Trump was excited. In one embarrassing moment, Trump phoned Mullah Baradar. He had a "very good talk," with the Taliban leader, he crowed, "The relationship is very good that I have with the mullah." Later, he said, "They want to cease violence." Observers sighed in despair. Just the day before, the Taliban had launched dozens of attacks. The Taliban was already taking advantage of Trump's terrible deal. Biden didn't have to stick with Trump's agreement. The Taliban certainly hadn't kept their end.”
This all happened. It doesn’t let Biden off the hook as the bulk of the article is about Biden and his mistakes. But it’s very evident that Trump left us weaker and the taliban stronger.
I don't usually watch this program (on at noon weekdays on Fox) but I'm glad I caught it today before I went out. Outstanding insights and commentary by everyone on the panel.
Sorry you seem immune to these FACTS. (vs. your delusionally scapegoating this to be somehow Trump's fault.)
Secretary of State Antony Blinken ignored the advance warnings and put literally tens of thousands of Americans in danger in Afghanistan. He should be fired or resign. Likewise defense secretary Lloyd Austin, negligent, incompetent, focused for months on using intelligence agencies to purge Trump supporters from the military as "radicals", rather than use those resources to defend and extract Americans in Afghanistan. Likewise the MIA and silent vice president Kamala Harris, desperate to save herself by avoiding any appearance of connection to this crisis. Likewise the utterly clueless national security advisor Jake Sullivan. Who also ignored the warning signs and let this crisis happen. Likewise DHS secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, who has resisted any attempts to secure the southern border, and is allowing an estimated 7,000 illegals a day to enter the U.S. with no vetting or medical examination, spreading new strains of Covid nationwide, secretly rushing them on planes and buses to all 50 states, without even notifying the governors of these states they are being sent to their states. Giving free pass nationwide to criminal drug cartel members, drug traffickers, human traffickers, murderers, rapists, and very relevant to the current Afghan crisis, wide open to terrorists. 7,000 people a day, completely unvetted. That's another invading army entering the U.S., every day.
Likewise Jenn Psaki, who is still missing in action, and still not back from taking a 1-week vacation, in the middle of an unbelievably serious crisis. She should resign or be fired. And the utterly clueless Joe Biden (see his interview with George Stephanopoulos above) who is clearly not in charge, and is callous even when confronted with the facts to the chaos, national security risk, and torment he has created.
Out of this entire shelf of leadership, NOT ONE OF THEM stepped up to defend this country. ALL should either resign or be fired.
It appears that various branches of intelligence did their part and warned these leaders of what was coming in Afghanistan, but NOT ONE of these people acted to save literally tens of thousands in Afghanistan, or to prevent that from being a stage for terrorism and expanded power for Iran, Pakistan, China and Russia, from which to spawn another threat to the U.S. over the long term, that will be even greater than the threat that came from there on 9-11-2001. Trump set the stage to largely end our war in Afghanistan, but retain bases in Afghanistan, with U.S. bases there, and a reactionary force to neutralize any terrorist resurgence that might begin to rise. This was all put in place by Trump before he left, and pointlessly destroyed by Biden and his inner circle of incompetent Bolsheviks.
“ Trump came to office promising to end the war. In characteristic fashion, he acted so impulsively and with such lack of discipline, that he single-handedly undercut the so-called "peace" negotiations in Doha, Qatar, between the Taliban and the United States that concluded last year More on that in a moment. But, first, let's note that the man leading the current Taliban offensive, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar -- the jihadi cleric who may become the next president of Afghanistan or, formally, the Emir of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan -- was being held in Pakistani and might still be there were it not for Trump. In 2018, the Trump team asked Pakistan to free Baradar so he could travel to Doha for talks. In Trump's eyes, Baradar may have looked a bit like North Korea's Kim Jong Un, the leader he could try to sweet talk and coax, showering him with praise while extracting essentially nothing from him, while drawing attention to himself and his theatrical "boldness". In 2019, Trump wanted to bring the Taliban to Camp David, and he wanted to do it just in time for the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. His advisers persuaded him that bringing the leaders of a group responsible for killing thousands -- including thousands of Americans -- and still engaged in regular attacks against Afghan civilians, was not the best of ideas. Trump relentlessly, cluelessly sabotaged peace talks, proclaiming his determination to pull out, and unexpectedly announcing troop reductions. His tweets became a major obstacle to negotiations, as he declared he was withdrawing US forces, the only leverage of US negotiators, without obtaining any real concessions from the Taliban.
In February 2020, Trump unveiled an agreement with the Taliban. The deal was an utter embarrassment, one of the worst ever negotiated by an American president. Under its terms, the United States not only agreed to withdraw by May 2021, it also committed itself to obtaining the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners, and another thousand in subsequent months, fortifying the Taliban's fighting force. The US also promised to help lift all international sanctions against the Taliban. In exchange, the Taliban promised not to attack Americans until they left, and agreed to start talks with the Afghan government. The supposed negotiations with Afghan representatives went nowhere, but the Americans started leaving. Trump kept tweeting he was pulling out the troops, removing any incentive for the Taliban to compromise. Afghan civilians were not fooled by Trump's so-called peace deal. Watching the signing, 28-year-old activist Zahra Husseini told AFP, "Today is a dark day...I had this bad feeling that it would result in [the Taliban's] return to power rather than in peace." She was right. But Trump was excited. In one embarrassing moment, Trump phoned Mullah Baradar. He had a "very good talk," with the Taliban leader, he crowed, "The relationship is very good that I have with the mullah." Later, he said, "They want to cease violence." Observers sighed in despair. Just the day before, the Taliban had launched dozens of attacks. The Taliban was already taking advantage of Trump's terrible deal. Biden didn't have to stick with Trump's agreement. The Taliban certainly hadn't kept their end.”
This all happened. It doesn’t let Biden off the hook as the bulk of the article is about Biden and his mistakes. But it’s very evident that Trump left us weaker and the taliban stronger.
First of all, sourced from CNN, that is fanatically and unashamedly a PR wing of the Democrat party, and has dozens of reporters who have gotten stories repeatedly wrong and been exposed as wrong over the last 5 years. A network that has lost 80% of its audience over the last 7 months since Trump left office, because EVEN DEMOCRATS polled have described CNN as "a propaganda network". Even THEY are not watching this garbage. (See the Project Veritas hidden camera interviews with CNN executives and reporters, where EVEN THEY describe their own network as "propaganda" where the talking points are ordered to them every day by CNN's chief executive.)
Second, even this partisan CNN hit piece, to retain the slightest credibility, still gives overwhelming primary blame to Joe Biden for his undeniable negligence, before muddying the water to say "Hey, Trump did some bad stuff too." But what they allege Trump did wrong is contradicted by the MULTIPLE people I posted interviews of above: Kash Patel, K.T. McFarland, and the head of Blackwater military contractors on the front lines in Afghanistan. THEY ALL say that Trump, despite withdrawing a majority of forces, left a residual defensive and intelligence force in Afghanistan, and Trump made the threat to Taliban leaders that if Taliban forces escalated violence, U.S. withdrawal was conditional, and would not leave if Taliban escalated fighting. Trump himself has said repeatedly that he directly told Taliban leaders that if they escalated and broke the peace, their villages and families would be the first ones bombed. It was ONLY when Biden broke the plans that Trump had in place, when Biden WITHDREW OUR FORCES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, WITHOUT TELLING THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT, WITHOUT TELLING THE AFGHAN MILITARY ALONGSIDE THEM, WITHOUT EVEN TELLING OUR N.A.T.O. ALLIES, just disappearing in the middle of the night, that things crumbled. That is the EXACT moment this all fell apart. Even without their Afghan president, against hopeless odds, with the betrayal of no U.S. (Biden) air support, there are still pockets of the U.S.-trained Afghan military who are even now still fighting on to the death.
And finally, who is Frida Ghitis who wrote this CNN editorial? She's another Democrat zealot, and gender-issues social justice warrior and Twitter blogger. She's worked at CNN for 15 years as a columnist. I didn't see anything in her profile to indicate she has been on the ground recently, or ever, in Afghanistan. Or been in Washington talking to the decisionmakers in the Pentagon or White House or Defense or State departments. To write this, she might have made a few phone calls, before injecting a lot of her clear ideological Democrat/Left opinion. The people I showed interviews of above were in the halls of power with Trump, in the Pentagon, and in the White House, or on the front lines in Afghanistan. They know the facts, whereas Frida Ghitis is just more CNN/Democrat spin, that really offers no supporting facts for what she alleges, in her partisan DNC attempt to factlessly imply some of the blame belongs to Trump.
No, Trump had a plan in place, Trump had the U.S. military prepared to attack if Taliban broke that plan, Trump left forces on the ground alongside the Afghan army, Trump directly threatened the Taliban that their own cities and families would be bombed if they broke the peace, and Trump further had an elaborate logistical plan in place to protect our military and civilian forces if anything went wrong, to avoid another Benghazi-type situation, that Biden canceleld in June. Biden broke every last piece of what Trump set up. If Biden had just left Trump's plans in force, Biden could have walked away an undeserved hero, just by keeping Trump's better planning in place. But Biden broke it, and now he owns it.
Yeah, MEM, they had a plan. They haven't actually produced evidence of a plan and most of this comes off like more fanfic from people who also claimed the election was stolen, but there was a plan. This plan and its existence in the minds of former Trump staffers is even corroborated through trustworthy media like PJMedia, an organization its editor proudly proclaims is unbiased and based in truth in its reporting of "Joe Biden's radical, leftist, 'America Last' agenda." Your unwillingness to just run with media that you like because you want it to be true is what is wrong with this country, sir.
I just posted interviews from multiple high-level officials, and frontline battlefield miltiary officers, DETAILING Trump's plans. Plans that Biden jettisoned and destroyed, and with that action, destroyed all of Afghanistan.
Here is Lara Logan, and another miltiary officer on the ground in Afghanistan further detailing what was planned, what was destroyed by Biden, and what could still be done at this point to at least secure the safe departure of Americans there.
I love how you just make up malicious lying talking points out of thin air, and completely ignore the sourced facts in front of you.
Re-watch also Mark Levin's Youtubed interview I posted above, where he gives an overview of the objectives of 20 years of fighting in the first place, how Biden's actions have betrayed that, and the role of Pakistan in funding and giving logistical support to the Taliban invasion. Facts, that CNN, the New York Times and liberal media selectively ignore. I linked sourced information the liberal Newspeak media is ignoring. If these liberal papers and networks were reporting it, rather than flying cover for Obama/Biden as much as they can, I would link that too.
It’s bullshit WB. The Trump administration set up the taliban wonderfully and pretended it was all going well. It’s very likely Afghanistan new taliban leader is going to be the guy Trump specifically had freed. Biden messed up and the media isn’t holding back btw. It’s to bad conservative media couldn’t have done that when trump was in office but than again you trumpers don’t tolerate disloyalty to him over country.
It’s bullshit WB. The Trump administration set up the taliban wonderfully and pretended it was all going well. It’s very likely Afghanistan new taliban leader is going to be the guy Trump specifically had freed. Biden messed up and the media isn’t holding back btw. It’s to bad conservative media couldn’t have done that when trump was in office but than again you trumpers don’t tolerate disloyalty to him over country.
No, that is absolutely wrong. All Trump's plans for withdrawal were conditional on Taliban remaining peaceful and forming a coalition government. At the very least, even if it eventually would have collapsed months or years after the U.S. left, we would have : 1) pulled out all our 40,000 or so civilians first 2) pulled out all our planes, tanks, drones and other military and technological equipment, and not left it there for the Taliban to just walk in and seize. I saw reported on the news today (FOX), that the Taliban now have a larger air force (200 planes) than Australia as a result of that. That absolutely would NOT have happened under Trump, as he proved with good military planning and battlefield successes for 4 years during his presidency. 3) **ONLY** after U.S. civilians, and Afghans and their families who assisted us, and all the military hardware had been evacuated, ONLY then would Trump have pulled our military out. And even then would have left forward observers to watch the Afghanistan and be on the lookout for terrorists expanding again, so we could be ready to go back in with targeted strikes if we needed to. And would not have abandoned bases, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WITHOUT TELLING ANYONE, NOT OUR AFGHAN ALLIES, NOT OUR NATO ALLIES, so that we would have a place far from Afghan cities, but still bases within Afghanistan to observe and weed out Taliban/Al Qaida if they would rise again.
It infuriates me, because Biden (or whoever is pulling his puppet strings and actually in charge) could 9 days ago have begun massing U.S. troops and planes, taken the nearby smaller airfields, and with snipers taken out any Taliban fighters firing on or otherwise beating/terrorizing U.S. citizens, and killing/terrorizing our Afghan allies. They could establish air superiority, and then send troops into the streets of Kabul, going house to house, rescuing U.S. citizens and our Afghan allies, escorting to the airport and airlifting them out. This is what Britain, France and Germany is doing for THEIR citizens trapped in Kabul. . But instead Biden is promising that "everyone who wants to leave" (EVERYONE wants to leave, but CAN'T) will be gone by August 31st. But even Democrat partisan pieces of shit like Rep. Adam Schiff are saying that's impossible, that thousands of U.S. nationals will still be trapped in Afghanistan. And Biden and his staff are just sitting on their hands, when they have enormous power at their fingertips to secure the release of U.S. citizens and our Aghan allies' families. With harsh words and a clear threat of force by Biden if Taliban block U.S. nationals from reaching the airport, or if they are beaten, or if their passports are confiscated, with a threat of force and a willingness to use that force, these people could be saved. But Biden and his staff remain sitting on their hands.
For a week I've seen stories about Taliban using OUR OWN TALIBAN-SEIZED BIOMETRIC RECORDS OF OUR AFGHAN ALLIES IN AFGHANISTAN, using that information to find their homes, to find their families, to seize their wives and daughters and sell them off as sex slaves to Taliban fighters. To mark their front doors, so as soon as the U.S. has fully pulled out they can be slaughtered and beheaded. If the family have a daughter and try to hide her, the Taliban will kill the whole family for trying to hide her.
An Afghan man who who has been teaching classes of Afghan girls tried to flee. They caught him, and they rounded up all his family, his brothers and his cousins, and beheaded them one by one right in front of him, before they killed him as well. These are the people Joe Biden is "negotiating" with, and giving a free pass to. Biden is emboldening them to even more violence. And he is putting thousands of Americans remaining there in great danger.
The first day, Biden should have done air raids and napalmed the bases, with Taliban fighters and all military equipment inside, to insure they were not used by the Taliban, deployed against us, or sold to the Russians, Chinese and Iranians to data-mine for information or reverse engineer to use against us.
But this is 9 days now since the Taliban overthrew Kabul, and President Biden and his incompetents have done absolutely nothing. And today, I saw a report that some Americans who try to travel through the checkpoints to the airport are being beaten, and having their passport documents taken away. It is escalating.
And in the same situation, Trump as president showed for 4 years he would have threatened Taliban leaders, he would have deployed and struck with military forces, he would have used all the planning and power he has previously demonstrated in that 4 years, to guarantee this situation never happened in the first place. He would have moved heaven and earth to prevent U.S. citizens from ever being in danger, and if the unforseen happened, he would immediately without hesitation move aggressively to stop it. As contrasted with Biden, 9 days since Kabul was seized, 3 weeks since the Taliban seized 85% of the country and collapse was seen by EVERYONE as imminent, no plan from Biden, no counter-offensive from Biden, no threats, no military strikes from Biden, not even preparing to POTENTIALLY launch one. Biden has all the U.S. presidential power at his fingrtips, he should be demanding terms from the Taliban or annihilating them. Instead he is begging to let our people leave, while the Taliban beats, rapes, and beheads at their leasure.
President Joe Biden once dismissed America’s obligations to Afghan women and girls when he was vice president, telling officials “Fuck that” when it was brought to his attention.
Atlantic reporter George Packer, also a biographer of former President Barack Obama’s special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke, revealed the 2010 exchange in March.
According to Holbrooke’s diary, when he asked about American obligations to Afghans like the girl in the Kabul school, Biden replied with a history lesson from the final U.S. withdrawal from Southeast Asia in 1973: “Fuck that, we don’t have to worry about that. We did it in Vietnam, Nixon and Kissinger got away with it.”
Biden also explained to Packer in 2004 why he once supported the war in Afghanistan and the importance of nation-building. Packer wrote that Biden told him of “a catalytic event” for him after he met a young girl in Afghanistan who urged Americans not to leave the country.
Packer wrote: “As Biden explained it, the girl was saying, in effect: ‘Don’t fuck with me, Jack. You got me in here. You said you were going to help me. You’d better not leave me now.'”
But Biden appears more war-weary after abandoning Afghanistan to the Taliban over the weekend.
During his speech Monday, he said he would only use words and diplomacy to help the women and girls of Afghanistan.
“We’ll continue to speak out for the basic rights of the Afghan people — of women and girls — just as we speak out all over the world,” he said.
This picks up where that left off, with the 1980-1989 Soviet/Afghan war, the refugee women and children who grew up in camps on the Pakistan side of the border, the manipulations for their own purposes by Pakistan, and the Saudi-Arabian madrassa-schools giving education of the Afghan refugee children in jihadist Wahabism (the term Taliban meaning "students") who then migrated back into Afghanistan, radicalized the country, and seized power.
Interesting that Afghanistan has never had a unified national identity, just a mishmash of scattered pockets of different ethnic peoples separated by terrain so mountainous it is very difficult to cross and have any cross-cultural interaction and unity. Exacerbated by over 40 years of unrelenting war.
I hate people who aren't white, hypocritically hate people who aren't Christian, and think everyone not my brand of conservative is either a Bolshevik or unwitting accomplice to Bolshevism...and hate them for it.
Originally Posted by Wonder Boy (AS SLANDEROUSLY SCRIPTED BY IGGY)
I hate people who aren't white, hypocritically hate people who aren't Christian, and think everyone not my brand of conservative is either a Bolshevik or unwitting accomplice to Bolshevism...and hate them for it.
Now I know for sure you're not serious, and that your only purpose here is to troll and get a reaction.
I think an overwhelming majority of Democrat leaders are Bolsheviks (the Obamas, the Clintons, and a huge swath of the appointees in their administrations) because they all OPENLY PRAISE Marxist governments, and genocidal lunatics like Che Guevarra, Fidel Castro, Mao, Stalin, the Sandinistas, Hugo Chavez, AS I HAVE QUOTED REPEATEDLY. I don't "believe" they're Bolsheviks, they OPENLY SAY THEMSELVES they are Bolsheviks, and/or openly praise Bolshevik tactics of intimidation, violence and genocide. All I, or DiscoverTheNetworks, or Breitbart, or Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, Dailycaller, Townhall, Americanthinker, Human Events, New York Post, Washington Times, Project Veritas, or many others have to do is quote EXACTLY what Democrat Bolsheviks themselves have said. There is no speculation or paranoia in labeling them Marxist/Bolshevik, this is EXACTLY what these Democrats have OPENLY SAID they advocate and zealously embrace ideologically.
And last time I checked, Dinesh D'Souza, Lt Col Allen West, Dr Ben Carson, Larry Elder, and many others I admire politically, are not white. Race is not the basis for who I admire or associate with. And I'm friends with, have dated, and even almost married women of many races. Many I admire are not even Christian.
But we all know YOU hate Christians and discriminate against them in your junior college classroom, because you have openly bragged about it. And your general attitude is unreasoning hatred for anyone who disagrees with your fanatical ideology, an ideology you never seem to have the mental capacity to lucidly articulate.
For decades, I never had a problem with Democrats, I could find common ground with them, even if they were to the Left of my own political beliefs. But since 2000, the Democrat party has been hijacked by the extreme Soros/Obama/Hillary/Sanders/Warren/AOC- Left, and they have become a clear danger to the survival of the nation. And openly advocate Marxism and authoritarian one-party rule. That is just a fact.
By the way, I posted multiple informative videos about the last 100 years of Afghan history, that all you could do is post an irrelevant troll response to.
Biden messed up but Trump made the horrible deal with the taliban. Was it genius to release thousands of prisoners at the same time pulling out all but 2500 of our troops? Trump bragged that the pull out couldn’t be stopped and he was right. Biden was left with a terrorist group trump had elevated and a withdrawal date. They played nice by not killing Americans only because we were leaving.
Biden messed up but Trump made the horrible deal with the taliban. Was it genius to release thousands of prisoners at the same time pulling out all but 2500 of our troops? Trump bragged that the pull out couldn’t be stopped and he was right. Biden was left with a terrorist group trump had elevated and a withdrawal date. They played nice by not killing Americans only because we were leaving.
That is your party's lying scapegoat argument. The fact is, Trump's negotiation was based completely on the Taliban honoring their agreement, and 4 months ago when they started to conquer territory, Trump would have ceased to pull out. The exit strategy Trump negotiated was conditional on stability, and Trump never would have surrendered Bagram air force base, never would have continued with the exit under these conditions, and sure as hell would not have allowed the fiasco at the Kabul airport where our military and the evacuees were sitting ducks. Both Hannity and Ingraham tonight separately reported that the military had advised Biden we needed 4500 troops in Kabul to secure the area. For purely political reasons, Biden insisted it be done with 600 troops, and 13 got killed as a result, along with another 15 injured, and 170 Afghan allies killed. All Biden cares about is appearances, not protecting our troops or allies.
UNLIKE the U.S., both France and Britain sent in troops that escorted all their nationals out of Kabul, from their homes to the airport. Only piece-of-shit Biden refused to protect our U.S. soldiers and civilians.
And when the U.S. state department refused to secure the passage of our citizens out, and Afghans who assisted us for 20 years in Afghanistan, many defense contractors acted to get hundreds of them out. Glenn Beck as well secretly got them out to airfields in Afghanistan. Beck when interviewed said that the state department actually tried to obstruct these rescue flights and threaten nations who allowed them to land. Both Beck, and multiple individual military contractor groups have said the same thing, that the State Department tried to obstruct their rescue operationss, and trap both Afghan allies and U.S. soldiers and civilians in Afghanistan ! I am increasingly of the belief that none of this is an accident, this is deliberate sabotage that allowed this takeover to happen, that allowed Afghan forces to be undermined and defeated, that allowed our bases, weapons, tanks, helicopters, drones, night-vision goggles to be seized. Biden is a Manchurian candidate, and much of this will go into the hands of the Chinese, and they will reverse-engineer all of it, so we lose our military technological advantage. And by no coincidence, Biden has been a bought-and-paid-for puppet of China since the Obama administration, as have Senator Dianne Feinstein and Rep. Eric Swalwell, among others. Pelosi had a financial stake in the Dominion voting machines, as do some of her aides, and so do Dianne Feinstein and her husband. In addition, China has obvious blackmail leverage over Biden and his son, to further extort him into treason.
This was not an accident, the level of failure in Afghanistan is so absurdly vast that there's no way at this point it was an accident. CIA and military intelligence all say they warned the Biden defense staff this was possible months ago. And for reasons unknown, they (Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Jake Sullivan, Gen. Mike Millie, Gen Lloyd Austin) all allowed it to happen. This was not an accident.
Biden messed up but Trump made the horrible deal with the taliban. Was it genius to release thousands of prisoners at the same time pulling out all but 2500 of our troops? Trump bragged that the pull out couldn’t be stopped and he was right. Biden was left with a terrorist group trump had elevated and a withdrawal date. They played nice by not killing Americans only because we were leaving.
That is your party's lying scapegoat argument. The fact is, Trump's negotiation was based completely on the Taliban honoring their agreement, and 4 months ago when they started to conquer territory, Trump would have ceased to pull out. The exit strategy Trump negotiated was conditional on stability, and Trump never would have surrendered Bagram air force base, never would have continued with the exit under these conditions, and sure as hell would not have allowed the fiasco at the Kabul airport where our military and the evacuees were sitting ducks. Both Hannity and Ingraham tonight separately reported that the military had advised Biden we needed 4500 troops in Kabul to secure the area. For purely political reasons, Biden insisted it be done with 600 troops, and 13 got killed as a result, along with another 15 injured, and 170 Afghan allies killed. All Biden cares about is appearances, not protecting our troops or allies. …
You leave out the part that the Taliban was not honoring the peace deal while Trump was pulling out our troops and releasing their prisoners. That is not just one sides narrative btw. Here is the National Reviews addressing the trumpers narrative…. Pompeo’s Underwhelming Defense of the Trump–Taliban Agreement You can’t dismiss Trumpturd’s bungling as just my party’s narrative WB. That would be lie on your part.
Last edited by Matter-eater Man; 2021-09-017:40 AM.
Biden messed up but Trump made the horrible deal with the taliban. Was it genius to release thousands of prisoners at the same time pulling out all but 2500 of our troops? Trump bragged that the pull out couldn’t be stopped and he was right. Biden was left with a terrorist group trump had elevated and a withdrawal date. They played nice by not killing Americans only because we were leaving.
That is your party's lying scapegoat argument. The fact is, Trump's negotiation was based completely on the Taliban honoring their agreement, and 4 months ago when they started to conquer territory, Trump would have ceased to pull out. The exit strategy Trump negotiated was conditional on stability, and Trump never would have surrendered Bagram air force base, never would have continued with the exit under these conditions, and sure as hell would not have allowed the fiasco at the Kabul airport where our military and the evacuees were sitting ducks. Both Hannity and Ingraham tonight separately reported that the military had advised Biden we needed 4500 troops in Kabul to secure the area. For purely political reasons, Biden insisted it be done with 600 troops, and 13 got killed as a result, along with another 15 injured, and 170 Afghan allies killed. All Biden cares about is appearances, not protecting our troops or allies. …
You leave out the part that the Taliban was not honoring the peace deal while Trump was pulling out our troops and releasing their prisoners. That is not just one sides narrative btw. Here is the National Reviews addressing the trumpers narrative…. Pompeo’s Underwhelming Defense of the Trump–Taliban Agreement You can’t dismiss Trumpturd’s bungling as just my party’s narrative WB. That would be lie on your part.
I did read the article, for what it's worth. Not much. I easily see through the holes in this NATIONAL REVIEW predictably anti-Trump editorial narrative.
First off...
The NATIONAL REVIEW is rabidly anti-Trump, and was never on his side. It has become an establishment-Republican RINO instrument, that sides with pro-Democrat elements of the GOP, and splinters the Republican party toward that end, to shut down actual patriots and conservatives. They give lip service to conservatism, but act to shut it down when it is actually practiced. And that ultimately works in the Democrat favor.
Second, Trump did sign an agreement with the Taliban, yes, but the removal of troops was conditional on whether stability continued in Afghanistan, and the plan was always to leave Bagram air force base in U.S. possession forever, NOT to give it up.
And NOT to leave Afghanistan with no U.S. eyes and ears on the ground.
And NOT to just order U.S. military forces in Afghanistan to disappear in early July to just silently with no notification disappear in the middle of the night, that completely undermined Afghan defense forces. That was the exact moment everything collapsed in Afghanistan. Regardless of withdrawing thousands of U.S. troops, Trump would have continued to give air support to Afghan forces, indefinitely, even if we didn't have a sizeable U.S. ground force. What Trump abandoned is nation-building, not any defense of Afghanistan. The NATIONAL REVIEW hit piece glosses over these details.
I think Trump's not including the Afghan government in U.S./Taliban negotiations is defended by the fact that the Afghan president fled the country in the days surrounding Kabul's fall, the fact that he's a Democrat-connected ideologue who was unconnected with the Afghan people when the Obama administration pulled him from a professor position at a university to govern Afghanistan. Who was obsessed with minor finance concerns in the weeks leading up to Kabul's fall, rather than any interest in the fact his country was falling to the Taliban. Whose sons both have million-dollar homes in the Washington DC area, and one of whom worked on the Pete Buttigieg 2020 Democrat campaign. The president fled the country in the days before Kabul fell, with bags containing about $160 million in US-funded Afghan treasury cash. "To spare my country from more bloodshed." Yeah, right.
For all the evasiveness, the bottom line is, Trump would have given support to the Afghan army against the Taliban, and would have held on to our bases there. Trump didn't withdraw bases from Germany, South Korea, Japan or elsewhere in the world. What Biden has done has been compared to the U.S. betrayal during the Bay of Pigs invasion (JFK with-holding U.S. air support from the army of Cuban nationals that WE TRAINED to invade, and then JFK left to be slaughtered), and the chaos of the helicopters leaving the U.S. embassy from Saigon in April 1975.
Trump reduced ground forces in Afghanistan from 13,000 to 2,500 to 3,500, but he did not prematurely leave, and Trump left the threat of a troop surge against the Taliban if needed, and air support for the Afghan army, who would do the frontline fighting from that point. And there was not a single U.S. casualty in over 18 months. Until Biden had our forces disappear in the middle of the night, without even warning the Afghans so they could compensate from that absence. An abandonment that put the Afghan military off balance, and from which they were never able to recover.
But your propaganda glosses over that, in an attempt to shift blame onto Trump, instead of on Biden and his staff where it belongs, who betrayed the Trump plan, abandoned and betrayed the Afghan military, and even betrayed our soldiers, civilians and our allies in Afghanistan. Biden's state department has even tried to shut down rescue operations by private military contractors and retired veterans. These rescue operations have to be done in secret, or the State Department (as they have several times) will shut down airports and punish governments who help them escape!
Increasingly I think this is not an accident, this is an elaborate plan to fail, from top to bottom, by the Bolsheviks in the Biden administration. They want to damage U.S. diplomatic and military power, they want to hurt Americans, they want to shatter our alliances with NATO and other pacts, to diminish or even collapse the United States. The level of failure is just too vast for this not to be a planned failure. I've thought this for at least a week, and I'm starting to see Republican Senators and House members and military officers say the same thing.
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