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http://www.katu.com/news/business/Did-a-...-189450071.html

 Quote:
GRESHAM, Ore. -- A Gresham baker is the subject of a state investigation after he refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.

Did Sweet Cakes owner Aaron Klein violate the law when he told the couple that he couldn’t sell them a cake because “they were abominations to the Lord?”

That’s what Oregon Attorney General's civil enforcement officers are looking into after one of the brides-to-be filed a complaint on Jan. 28.

The woman who filed the complaint said she had previously bought a cake from Sweet Cakes for her mother’s wedding. It was fine. But when her partner went back for their wedding cake on Jan. 17, the owner refused.

Klein on Friday denied making the harsh statement, but admitted to a KATU reporter on camera that he did deny her service.

“I apologized for wasting their time and said we don’t do same-sex marriages,” he said. I “honestly did not mean to hurt anybody, didn’t mean to make anybody upset, (it’s) just something I believe in very strongly.”

But beliefs aren’t enough to cover him under state law. The Oregon Equality Act of 2007 prohibits discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and gender identity. The statute includes public accommodations, such as businesses.

Klein emphasized the importance of his religious beliefs, saying it outweighs his bottom line and the state law.

“If I have to be to, I guess, be penalized for my beliefs, then I guess, well, that’ll be what it is,” he said.

The question now: whether his constitutional rights outweigh state statute.

“My First Amendment rights allow me to practice my religion as I see it,” Klein said.

We asked Portland attorney Paula Barran whether this case falls under the 2007 statute. She said it did, but added that she did not know how the owner’s religious beliefs would factor in.

“Statutes don’t get to overcome constitutional protections, so if somebody had a religious-based reason for wanting not to trade with somebody, I think you have a really interesting test case for whether or not a statute like this can apply,” Barran said.

There is no exception under the state's anti-discrimination law for religious beliefs. Ultimately, the case would be up for a judge to decide.

The woman who filed the complaint declined to comment to KATU until she receives further legal advice.


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Gays always get upset if you don't approve of them.

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We'll take your word for that, Lothar.

But, seriously, it seems like the appropriate remedy here would be for gays and gay supporters to just not frequent the bakery, in lieu of sicking the government on the baker for exercising his own first amendment rights.

I figure we're about five years away from the homosexual lobby criminalizing anyone criticism of gays even by religious organizations.

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It will go even further and force hetrosexuals to engage in homosexual acts of sex.


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Nah. I figure that's about twenty years away. Sorry, MEM.

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Man, these fuckers in the comment section are cunts.

You try to reason with them and they just keep throwing the word "bigot" at you. It's like having a dozen Klintons post at the same time.

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Gays seem to not understand the concept of free speech. If this guy doesn't believe in gay rights or want to endorse the lifestyle by baking gay-event cakes, that is certainly his right, whether gays like it or not.


I did a Google search under gay cake, and there was certainly plenty to see. Some of it playful, some of it creative, some of it downright offensive.

Would that gays exhibited the tolerance for conservative free speech that we allow them.

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celebrity baker wants to make the lesbos a free cake
http://www.kptv.com/story/20962520/food-...by-local-bakery


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On the one hand, the baker could have refused and stated that he's got other stuff and can't take orders at the moment - instead he had to go and say that he's not taking their business because he disapproves of their lifestyle.

The gay couple could have just went to a different baker and just let the baker suffer loss of future business, but no - they had to drag the courts into it.

Way I see it, both sides wanted to get back at the other for not accepting their beliefs.


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How was he trying to get back at them?

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he wanted to make them feel bad for being gay


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Or, perhaps, he didn't want to feel compromised for passively endorsing a same-sex wedding.

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The baker may want to read up on the sin of gluttony and think about a new career if he's worried about passively endorsing a same-sex wedding. While I think the baker is probably picking and choosing amongst biblical sins, he does have the federally protected right to do so. The gay couple should have just found another bakery instead of letting this probably ruin their wedding.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The baker may want to read up on the sin of gluttony and think about a new career if he's worried about passively endorsing a same-sex wedding. While I think the baker is probably picking and choosing amongst biblical sins, he does have the federally protected right to do so. The gay couple should have just found another bakery instead of letting this probably ruin their wedding.


Or they could just simply respect his beliefs, and find another baker for their wedding cake.

That's the beauty of liberal intolerance. No one else's beliefs are valid but theirs. And yet they paint conservatives (who don't share, but still tolerate THEIR beliefs) as intolerant.
Irony, that.

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Did you even read my post? I ask since I suggested that the couple should have went to another baker.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Did you even read my post? I ask since I suggested that the couple should have went to another baker.



Here's what you posted.

 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The baker may want to read up on the sin of gluttony and think about a new career if he's worried about passively endorsing a same-sex wedding.

While I think the baker is probably picking and choosing amongst biblical sins, he does have the federally protected right to do so. The gay couple should have just found another bakery instead of letting this probably ruin their wedding.


I split your comment in two, because the two halves of what you posted don't seem to project the same message.

The first half sounds rather intolerant of the baker's beliefs, stating basically that if he doesn't share the beliefs of gays he should find another profession.

The second half does, as you say, allow for the baker's right to serve who he wants. But you do project two conflicting ideas of tolerance/intolerance for his beliefs.

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"My friends have always been the best of me." -Doctor Who

"Well,whenever I'm confused,I just check my underwear. It holds most answers to life's questions." Abe Simpson

I can tell by the position of the sun in the sky, that is time for us to go. Until next time, I am Lothar of the Hill People!
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State: Gresham bakery discriminated against same-sex couple; hearing set for March

 Quote:

Posted: Feb 02, 2015 5:23 PM EST
Updated: Feb 02, 2015 7:14 PM EST

By Staff and AP reports

GRESHAM, OR (KPTV/AP) - A hearing is scheduled in March to determine how much in damages two bakers owe a lesbian couple for refusing to bake them a wedding cake.
An administrative law judge has rejected Sweet Cakes by Melissa's contention that the state's discrimination laws don't govern their refusal because it was on religious grounds.

Two years ago, the couple filed a complaint with the Oregon Department of Justice when Sweet Cakes co-owner Aaron Klein said, "We don't do same-sex marriages."

Klein and his wife, whose bakery has since closed up shop but appears to still take online orders, do not hide their religious beliefs. The Sweet Cakes website says they "strongly believe that when a man and woman come together to be joined as one, it is [truly] one of the most special days of their lives."

In the two years since the initial complaint, the state has ruled in favor of the same-sex couple and said the Gresham bakery violated their rights. Monday's interim order for the Bureau of Labor and Industries echoed that position, and found the bakery unlawfully discriminated against the couple by not giving them "full and equal access to a place of public accommodations."

Under Oregon law, Oregonians may not be denied service based on sexual orientation or gender identity. The law provides an exemption for religious organizations and schools, but does not allow private businesses to discriminate based on sexual orientation, just as they cannot legally deny service based on race, sex, age, disability or religion.


So much for Constitutionally protected religious freedom.

There's a difference between refusing to serve two gay men or two lesbians lunch, and forcing someone against their beliefs to cater or photograph a gay wedding.

I'd put the latter in the same category as forcing a Jew or Muslim to eat pork, or forcing a Hindu or vegetarian to eat beef.

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The bakers refused service because the customers were gay, correct? I could understand if the customers had requested something pornographic on the cake but it sounds like the bakers automatically denied service on the basis of the customer's sexual orientation. Imagine how much you would holler if you were denied service because of what ever religion you claim to be?


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
The bakers refused service because the customers were gay, correct? I could understand if the customers had requested something pornographic on the cake but it sounds like the bakers automatically denied service on the basis of the customer's sexual orientation. Imagine how much you would holler if you were denied service because of what ever religion you claim to be?


No!

If they were gay and were simply having a birthday party or Christmas party, the bakers I'm sure would have catered without a second thought.
There was a specific type of event they didn't want to endorse, because of their religious beliefs opposing that specific event they were asked to cater.

If Council On American Islamic Relations (CAIR) had an office party, I'm confident the bakers would cater it. If they wanted these bakers to cater a political event for rallying to impose Sharia law, the Christian bakers would likely refuse that too.

You seem blind to the fact that it is not a refusal to serve gays per se in any circumstance, but only that their beliefs prohibit them from endorsing this specific event of participating in a gay marriage.

If gay bakers were forced to cater a defense-of-marriage rally, they'd likely put HIV-infected blood in the icing, if forced to cater the event.

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Comments where you imagine gays likely doing that besides, being batshit crazy, also illustrates you don't really have much of an argument. A sale simply doesn't equate to an endorsement. This was tested legally and considering your party is pretending it's more gay friendly, it's not going to change anytime soon.


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It's a clash between two lifestyles refusing to budge an inch and demanding they get their way. It's kind of sad the two groups couldn't have worked this out.

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Asking (or, in this case, demanding) that they provide a service that directly supports the event qualifies as an endorsement.

They've already stated that they have no problem selling them other types of cakes.

I feel like we've had this conversation before with you claiming that people have some sort of constitutionally established right to demand vendors provide services regardless of their own prerogative. It was retarded then, and it's retarded now.

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Well guess you can feel anyway you want Pariah. There is of course the reality. See the various court rulings. You and WB are of course entitled to your opinions/feelings.


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 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Asking (or, in this case, demanding) that they provide a service that directly supports the event qualifies as an endorsement.


That.



All this ruling proves is liberals partisanly dominate the courts, regardless of, and actually contemptuous of, actual law or justice.

And to borrow a phrase from Greg Gutfeld: "homo-phobia phobia". Moderates and conservatives caving in out of fear of being called homophobic, rather than standing for what they know is religious freedom, and right.

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\:lol\:

Pretty sure an endorsement has something about doing it of your own free will. The law is mandating them to treat all customers equally. It's not an endorsement.


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Does it REALLY sound acceptable to you to force a Christian bakery to cater a gay event against their will, when the gays in question could have chosen hundreds of other bakers who don't have the same religious convictions?

What purpose does it serve, other than to rightly stoke conservative rage?


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Personally I wouldn't waste or give my business to people like that. Forcing them to treat people equally is ok though. If they don't like it the husband can always get his wife fitted with a burca and move to one of the countries that share their values.


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Except when the court rules against gay marriage, and your side is forced to comply with the law... right M E M?

Proposition 8, for example.

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That did happen in the past but so did things like slavery, segregation and women not being allowed to vote. This is the present however.


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Abortion is an ongoing battle.
Gay marriage is an ongoing battle.

It is, in fact, gays who are being intolerant in this current political battle, forcing their beliefs on others, rather than allowing each respective group to follow their own respective beliefs.
Homosexuality is not like racial discrimination. Homosexuality is a belief system, that a Supreme Court justice said (of homosexuality, under the umbrella of secular humanism it is an attack arm of) that it is as much a faith-based belief system as Christianity.

To date, there is no proof that homosexuality is a natural or a biological/genetic inborn condition, and not just an aberrant desire that some choose to act on. Therefore gays/liberals should not have the right to tell the 78% of America that is Christian, or the over 90% of America that more broadly believes in God (combined Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc.), that they have to let gays' nonfactual unfounded beliefs be forced down their collective throats, and be forced to bake cakes for gay weddings their teachings clearly condemn as immoral.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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A customer wanting to be treated just like all the other customers isn't being intolerant.


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...unless, of course, the customer has no tolerance for the views of the one(s) providing the service.

Resorting to legalism only makes you look even more like a tard--especially since these bakers (and the photographers in San Francisco who were coerced to close up shop) are being victimized in the same way that you claim homosexuals are/were being victimized.

This is a gross injustice. Plain and simple.

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I knew this line of discussion sounded familiar:

Starbucks says guns unwelcome, though not banned

 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: Matter-Eater Man
 Originally Posted By: pariah
 Originally Posted By: Matter-Eater Man
 Originally Posted By: the g-man
 Quote:
The man has politley asked people to not bring a gun to his coffee shop,SO DON'T BRING A GUN INTO HIS SHOP! Why does this have to be such a big deal for some people?


For the same reason gays have a hissy fit when somebody doesn't want to bake them a wedding cake I guess.


It looks like you guys are the ones having the hissy fit over a company just asking people not to bring their guns into their place of business. I doubt most gun owners actually feel their right to own a gun includes being able to carry them into other people's private homes and companies.


In which case, if a business should have the right to refuse service to someone pursuing the legal practice of gun carrying/ownership. Then they should, furthermore, have the right to refuse service to anyone on whatever grounds they personally find relevant to their own moralities, yes?


Here's the problem with G-man's comparison. Starbuck's didn't refuse service to the gun nuts so there wasn't any discrimination. Your problem is you don't like that somebody politely asked customers not to bring their guns into their place of business. Not banned just a request.


Uh-huh. And if a cake maker politely requested that homosexual couples not walk into his or her store looking for wedding cakes for a same-sex unions, would you be as cool with that as you are with this?



Of course, as one would expect, MEM deigned not to reply to that.

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I would prefer that homophobes self identify themselves. As I've said before I would just take my money elsewhere. Them making it easier is all good in my book.


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And by "homophobe", you mean anyone who disagrees with you.

No matter how factless and partisan your argument.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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