RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books So...covergate?

"Arists" request.

sure.

I don't have the link, but some bitch posted a spiel and a hashtag #remove the cover or something.

It's a good cover for fuck's sake.

...And with that being said, we're going to cave to the threats and appease the feminists.

Fucking assholes.

One of the more interesting aspects of this is that many opponents of the cover say it harkens back to, and glorifies, a sexual assault because 'everyone' knows Joker raped Babs during the Killing Joke

Yeah...

...Hey. Wait a minute.

He has his hand over her shoulder and the gun is pointing down at her vagina. Her VAGINA people! Of course that means the artist was implying he raped her! And he has a finger pointing at her face which means he finger banged her to! And he's wearing a purple hat, so he probably made her watch Purple Rain while he did it!! That sick bastard!

I never understood all the hooplah from both sides. The people who are offended and the people who are against the censorship. It's just a cover, and a variant one at that. It's like people are looking for reasons to be offended these days that they'll jump at the slightest opportunity to be angry.

Now if what's in contention is what happens in the pages/story, then it could be subject to discussion.

A point of clarity:

#ChangeTheCover

• 
  
  FeministBatman:
  
  I am at the point where I really feel the need to say something about this. I apologize for the long post, I apologize for the stupid hashtag, and I apologize that people on my dash will likely have to see this cover.
  
  I’d like to start out by saying I love Batgirl. I liked Gail’s run a lot and I like Cameron’s run a lot. I am so excited for next week where we’ll have DOUBLE Batgirl with the regular series and the Endgame one shot. I understand that some people are not fans of the new, brighter Batgirl run, and oftentimes criticism of the book’s mood and energy drowns out criticism that is really, genuinely important. This is criticism that I believe is really, genuinely important. It has nothing to do with the current story or creators, it’s just about this Joker variant right here.
  
  If you are a fan of the Batgirl books and have never read The Killing Joke I guarantee you have at least seen it referenced. The Killing Joke is an Alan Moore one shot written in the 80′s and maybe the most referenced Bat-book of all time. At the time DC didn’t have much use for Barbara Gordon, so it was requested by the book’s creative that she be paralyzed for the sake of furthering the angst for her father in the story (there were not plans for her to recover or come back to the books at the time, they were just getting rid of her). In the story Joker comes to her father’s apartment, shoots Barbara in the spine, and has his thugs drag her father out. Joker then takes off Barbara’s clothes as she lies in a pool of her own blood and uses his camera to take pornographic pictures of her naked body. These pornographic images of her naked breasts and of her crying out in pain are later explicitly shown in the book.
  
  The joker sexually assaulted and molested Barbara after shooting her through the spine. This is a book that is STILL canon in the current universe and referenced frequently. This cover portrays a victim of sexual assault with the man who molested her wrapping his arms around her shoulders and painting a smile of what is likely blood on her face as she weeps. If any other character was paired with their molester on such a dark horrifying cover there would be an outcry, but because The Killing Joke is so “iconic” someone at DC thought it was okay. It’s not.
  
  I wrote a post about this earlier and every single reblog and reply has been someone with a similar reaction to mine: A wave of shock, the feeling of their stomach flipping, the feeling of being triggered, the feeling of fear. If that is what the artist intended to do then they did it well. But it is still unacceptable.
  
  Here’s another thing about this- It’s okay to reference the Killing Joke, I’m not saying that no one should ever reference it again. It can be done well. Joker’s camera on the cover of TKJ became iconic; it’s an image of him as he takes the pornographic pictures of Barbara. In the new Batgirl run I have always thought that the constant use of cameras referenced Barbara’s ability to put herself back in control of the camera. Barbara taking selfies to reclaim her image, the Harley Quinn variant, the art show where Barbara was “on display” in a sexual manner without her consent and how she reacted to that, it’s subtle but the list goes on and on. Though I like many others had guessed the big baddie beforehand, I even thought that making the Joker the villain for the story arc would be interesting because of the constant camera symbolism. There are many Birds Of Prey issues that handle post TKJ stories well; Barbara knocking out all of the Joker’s teeth was pretty damn great. One of the recent Batman Eternals had Barbara fight Joker’s Daughter at the carnival where her father was taken, and she strode in telling Julia Pennyworth that she was going to put a punchline on the joke once and for all.
  
  There are a lot of potential Joker variant covers that would have been amazing. I would have loved to see Barbara stepping on the joker’s face after punching him to the ground, perhaps using that iconic camera of his to take a selfie. But a violent, bloody cover of a weeping Batgirl as the man who molested her smiles by her side is sickening. It’s disgusting. And I am tired of her scenes in The Killing Joke being referenced while the serious issues involving her assault are casually ignored.
  
  Maybe nothing will happen. I actually doubt it will be changed, which is an absolute travesty considering DC has pulled covers for being ridiculously over-sexualized before. This is different, though, because to some attacking the cover would be the same as attacking the entire Killing Joke story (not the case). The whole thing just bums me out.
  
  Anyways, if you’ve read this all I’d love to hear your ideas as to what a new potential cover should be. Because I am sure you all could come up with something much better than this.

And the following comment from RosieTwiggs:

• It’s also worth pointing out that since making this post, feministbatman has received multiple rape and death threats over it - and if you go check the ‘changethecover’ hashtag on twitter, you’ll see a lot of the same.
  
  That should make it exceedingly clear that this cover is totally bound up with all the toxic masculinity and misogyny rotting at the core of so much of comic book fandom and publishing. This isn’t just about one cover variant, or even one (really shitty) storyline. It’s indicative of a much wider, continuing problem with how women in comic books and comic book fandom continue to be viewed - we are dehumanised, victimised, side-lined - and when we speak up, it’s not enough for certain men to disagree with us: we must be bullied into silence. That ALONE makes it clear that this cover needs to go. It is propping up and validating the attitudes of those fanboys who think that issuing death threats is an appropriate response to a woman having an opinion.
  
  We cannot and should not stand for this bullshit. DC keeps insisting that it wants to create more diverse, inclusive content - and frankly it is key to DC’s survival as a comic book publisher that it attract more female readers. It CANNOT do so whilst this cover and the attitudes it represents is considered appropriate and publishable. We need to speak up here, and DC had better fucking listen.

There's nothing to understand. These people are insane.

Kind of like that cover.

Although I do kind of understand the concern...

And now I have Purple Rain stuck in my head. For fuck's sake.

Now you can fully grasp just how evil the Joker is.

As far as I'm concerned, you're his fucking henchman.

Those guys are douches hiding behind anonymity. Someone should dox their IDs and send that stuff to their employers.

....Are you being serious?

what's a dox

Posting someone's private info online for all to see.

It would be like me telling everyone that you're a hooker living in the Philippines.

No, that's called free advertising.

five dawluh foh sucky sucky

Freedom of speech, baby. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

I don't know what that means. But my incredulity stems not from your love of free speech, but rather the fact that you fucking believe them when they say they're being doxxed/threatened.

This has been a typical SJW tactic for the past 7+ months: say something stupid, take heat for it, claim you're being threatened, and finally doxxing yourself for the epic win.

After seeing how well it worked for Zoe Quinn, all of her ilk began to rely on it as a tactic of invalidating their enemies and having them written off as racist, misogynist, etc.

I have Doxed this thread!

Oh NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

I just saw the wonder woman page. I've never liked the term mansplaining. A lot of people who use it can't seem to agree on what it really means and just use it to silence/dismiss anything that a man says (which is actually the kind of act that they are rallying against.)

Also, it's a blanket term that actually discourages discussion between the two sides. It's kind of the equivalent of the Iconoclasts locking their own board to win an Internet fight: instead of addressing a point of view they don't agree with, just label it as mansplaining and ignore it.

Zoe Quinn? No idea what you're talking about.

Forget telling employers. If someone was to actually threaten me or mine with rape or murder in an online forum, I'd find out who they are, with a disregard to the expense of it, and feed the police everything I had in a detailed and easy to understand fashion. Without any doubt or hesitation on my behalf.

which is OK in my world..it's the pimps I have trouble with!

That said I find killing joke only OK as a story. I find DC's back-peddling of the content asinine and irresponsible though. Much like Bendis and Marvel saying Luke cage wasn't having anal sex with Jessica in Alias....riighhhtttttt

Geez... sometimes a cover is just a cover.
And you can read into it as much or as little as you want to.