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#1228105 - Fri Jan 18 2019 10:04 AM The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 19347
Loc: A glorious bold new America


Day 27 and counting, as I write this.

Trish Regan on her program Tuesday pointed out that with the Democrats' obstruction in pushing this shutdown, the shutdown has already cost the federal government more than $5.7 billion.

I consider it Pelosi's shutdown because Trump has remained in the White House and didn't even leave for vacation over Christmas and New Years, because he is committed to negotiate a solution. Trump has offered multiple new proposals and alternatives.
The Democrats won't even meet with him to hear those proposals, some aren't even in the city to meet with him. How is that serving the taxpayers or the 800,000 or so furloughed federal workers? Some of whom are working without pay (Coast Guard, TSA) and will not be reimbursed later.

The second week or so of the shutdown, Pelosi spent in Hawaii on vacation.

The third week of the shutdown, most of the House and Senate Democrats went to Puerto Rico on vacation (and went by private jet, so they wouldn't have to face the TSA staffers who are working without pay at the airport). Allegedly in Puerto Rico to do some work, but photographed frolicking with bikini-clad girls on the beach.

This 4th week, Pelosi was going to leave the country again for Europe, and Trump let her know that "for budget reasons" she could not use her usual federally-paid-for private jet to travel there. Although she is welcome by Trump to fly on a commercial jet like the commoners she has no regard for.

Just pointing out also, I could pull up Youtube video of Pelosi, Schumer, Hoyer, and all the rest calling in years past for a border wall and not permitting illegal immigrants to enter our country unvetted and unlawfully. Even Obama and Hillary!
But now, complete hypocrisy, they consider it a waste of money to secure the border that they advocated and even funded securing a year ago. Pelosi even called it "immoral".

There's hypocrisy on the Democrats' part thrashing its monstrous head all over the place.

It's not about saving money, because the shutdowwn has already wasted more than that.
It's not about morals, because Democrats for many years have said the exact opposite of what they're saying now. (1) We need to secure the border. (2) It's immoral to secure the border. Well, which is it? Were you lying then, or are you lying now? Even the most bottom-feeding welfare-sponging food-stamp abusing Democrat could see the hypocrisy of the Democrats, and that they only now oppose securing the border because Trump is for it.
It's not about being humane, because leaving the border unsecured creates far more victims than securing it would, among both illegals and U.S. legal residents they prey on. Again, Amnesty International and other human rights groups estimate between 60 to 80% of women and girls trafficked across the border are raped and sexually abused. Many others are murdered or forced into human slavery or prostitution. Men and women mid-journey who can't pay the full price for coyote escort are violently tortured and murdered as an example to the others. Many others who fall ill or otherwise can't keep up are left behind to die in the desert, and border patrol finds their bodies later, hundreds of them every year. To say nothing of the U.S. citizens and LEGAL immigrants in the U.S. murdered, raped, killed by drunk drivers, and tortured by MS-13 and other hispanic gangs. One small sample, over 90% of the outstanding warrants for murder in Los Angeles, CA are for illegal immigrants from Mexico, mostly gang members.

The most recent estimate of the annual cost of illegal immigration is $136 billion a year. The cost of the wall is 5.7 billion, and the shutdown has already cost more than that. If the border wall reduces illegals by 95% as it has in San Diego and every other sector a secure wall has been put up, it will pay for itself many times over in saved tax dollars, and saved lives.

There is absolutely no moral high ground for the Democrats on this shutdown and securing the border. It's pure obstruction.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.

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#1228108 - Fri Jan 18 2019 07:33 PM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Wonder Boy]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14056
When it comes down to shut downs, whoever is making the additional demands own the shut down. Uber partisans will of course blame the other side no matter what. The previous shut down was on the Dems, this one is Trump's and the GOP's.

Fair play!

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#1228109 - Fri Jan 18 2019 07:53 PM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14056
Trump losing support from core supporters

That to me was what he was willing to do the shut down in the first place, to please core supporters. Truly sad that this is what might actually hurt him, not all the damage he's created with this shut down.

Fair play!

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#1228110 - Fri Jan 18 2019 08:35 PM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 19347
Loc: A glorious bold new America


Trump said he was willing to shut it down, if Democrats wouldn't allow the piddly 5.7 trillion to fund the wall. He said it was too important not to fight for.

But ultimately, It was the Democrats who stubbornly dug in and refused to compromise, refused to even meet with Trump to discuss it, who left town so they were not even accessible to discuss a resolution with Trump. The Democrat leadership who have jerked around 800,000 federal employees indefinitely, just to spite Trump. And won't even meet with Trump and are deliberately prolonging this, because they rest assured the 80% liberal media (every network but Fox) are on their side and will spin it as Trump's fault, no matter what the facts. They see it as playing in their favor, the longer this shutdown lasts, so they are milking it cynically, and fuck the 800,000 federal employees counting on them to end it.

The cost of the shutdowwn has already far exceeded the amount Trump wanted for the wall. What justification is left at this point?


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#1228111 - Fri Jan 18 2019 10:45 PM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Wonder Boy]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14056
The democrats are willing to demand nothing to reopen the government. I don't see a principled argument on your end.

Fair play!

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#1228112 - Sat Jan 19 2019 12:10 PM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 19347
Loc: A glorious bold new America


The principled argument is holding out for a wall that will release illegal border crossings and drug trafficcking by 95% (as it has in every other part of the border where walls have been built.) And preventing the victimization of tens of thousands of Americand and legal resident immigrants, who should never have been here in the first place.

Democrats have no principled argument for opposing Trump's 5.7 billion for a wall (that the cost of Democrats' shutdown has already far exceeded, what could have already funded a wall).

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#1228121 - Sun Jan 20 2019 09:36 AM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Wonder Boy]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14056
Yeah I've read enough into it that I know that is all just bullshit. Trump still has money he hasn't spent yet for the border and has been dishonest about things like how much of the illegal immigration is a result of people overstaying visas. You are being dishonest by calling this a democrat shutdown. Democrats are willing to let Trump reopen the government and he can campaign for more republican control in '20. And really if Dems did give in to Trump's demands he would just keep on doing it on anything he can't get through congress. Considering he couldn't even win the popular vote last time I doubt he'll be able to score another electoral college again. Not to mention he could actually be impeached before than.

Fair play!

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#1228130 - Mon Jan 21 2019 12:12 PM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Matter-eater Man]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 19347
Loc: A glorious bold new America
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Yeah I've read enough into it that I know that is all just bullshit. Trump still has money he hasn't spent yet for the border and has been dishonest about things like how much of the illegal immigration is a result of people overstaying visas. You are being dishonest by calling this a democrat shutdown. Democrats are willing to let Trump reopen the government and he can campaign for more republican control in '20. And really if Dems did give in to Trump's demands he would just keep on doing it on anything he can't get through congress. Considering he couldn't even win the popular vote last time I doubt he'll be able to score another electoral college again. Not to mention he could actually be impeached before than.


Uh... with all due respect, more than half the illegals who cross the border aren't being captured, and the last two months have been record months for the number of illegals coming across and surrendering themsselves. And Border Patrol agents are inundated with child-illegals (thanks to Obama/Democrat policy that encourage more children coming) Border Patrol now devote 40% of their resources just to take care of and babysit children, and have even less agents to patrol the border.

How you can spin that as not being an actual crisis is beyond me.

And because Democrats have obstructed preventing the first waves of illegals and allowed them in, tens of thousaands more will now make the trip. Women and children, who human rights groups have already said between 60 to 80% of whom will be sexually abused, or even murdered or left to die in the desert, or sold into human slavery. Tens of thousands. As a direct result of cynical Democrat obstruction.


  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.

Top
#1228131 - Mon Jan 21 2019 12:15 PM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Wonder Boy]
Wonder Boy
Offline brutally Kamphausened

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 19347
Loc: A glorious bold new America

And when Democrats repeatedly leave town and aren't even available to discuss Trump's offers of negotiation for a settlement, the shutdown is Pelosi and Schumer's and the Democrats' shutdown. There is absolutely no getting around that.

Pelosi, despite Trump's grounding her government plane, just boarded another plane and left the country. The 800,000 federal employees who are not getting paid this week should be real happy about that.

  • from Do Racists have lower IQ's...

    Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

    EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.

Top
#1228134 - Mon Jan 21 2019 08:40 PM Re: The Government shutdown by Democrats over $5.7 billion for the border wall [Re: Wonder Boy]
Matter-eater Man
Online   argumentative Fair Play!

Registered: Sat Jun 07 2003
Posts: 14056
They know she's not holding them hostage. It was stupid of Trump to even to try to hold them for ransom.

Fair play!

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