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Day 27 and counting, as I write this.

Trish Regan on her program Tuesday pointed out that with the Democrats' obstruction in pushing this shutdown, the shutdown has already cost the federal government more than $5.7 billion.

I consider it Pelosi's shutdown because Trump has remained in the White House and didn't even leave for vacation over Christmas and New Years, because he is committed to negotiate a solution. Trump has offered multiple new proposals and alternatives.
The Democrats won't even meet with him to hear those proposals, some aren't even in the city to meet with him. How is that serving the taxpayers or the 800,000 or so furloughed federal workers? Some of whom are working without pay (Coast Guard, TSA) and will not be reimbursed later.

The second week or so of the shutdown, Pelosi spent in Hawaii on vacation.

The third week of the shutdown, most of the House and Senate Democrats went to Puerto Rico on vacation (and went by private jet, so they wouldn't have to face the TSA staffers who are working without pay at the airport). Allegedly in Puerto Rico to do some work, but photographed frolicking with bikini-clad girls on the beach.

This 4th week, Pelosi was going to leave the country again for Europe, and Trump let her know that "for budget reasons" she could not use her usual federally-paid-for private jet to travel there. Although she is welcome by Trump to fly on a commercial jet like the commoners she has no regard for.

Just pointing out also, I could pull up Youtube video of Pelosi, Schumer, Hoyer, and all the rest calling in years past for a border wall and not permitting illegal immigrants to enter our country unvetted and unlawfully. Even Obama and Hillary!
But now, complete hypocrisy, they consider it a waste of money to secure the border that they advocated and even funded securing a year ago. Pelosi even called it "immoral".

There's hypocrisy on the Democrats' part thrashing its monstrous head all over the place.

It's not about saving money, because the shutdowwn has already wasted more than that.
It's not about morals, because Democrats for many years have said the exact opposite of what they're saying now. (1) We need to secure the border. (2) It's immoral to secure the border. Well, which is it? Were you lying then, or are you lying now? Even the most bottom-feeding welfare-sponging food-stamp abusing Democrat could see the hypocrisy of the Democrats, and that they only now oppose securing the border because Trump is for it.
It's not about being humane, because leaving the border unsecured creates far more victims than securing it would, among both illegals and U.S. legal residents they prey on. Again, Amnesty International and other human rights groups estimate between 60 to 80% of women and girls trafficked across the border are raped and sexually abused. Many others are murdered or forced into human slavery or prostitution. Men and women mid-journey who can't pay the full price for coyote escort are violently tortured and murdered as an example to the others. Many others who fall ill or otherwise can't keep up are left behind to die in the desert, and border patrol finds their bodies later, hundreds of them every year. To say nothing of the U.S. citizens and LEGAL immigrants in the U.S. murdered, raped, killed by drunk drivers, and tortured by MS-13 and other hispanic gangs. One small sample, over 90% of the outstanding warrants for murder in Los Angeles, CA are for illegal immigrants from Mexico, mostly gang members.

The most recent estimate of the annual cost of illegal immigration is $136 billion a year. The cost of the wall is 5.7 billion, and the shutdown has already cost more than that. If the border wall reduces illegals by 95% as it has in San Diego and every other sector a secure wall has been put up, it will pay for itself many times over in saved tax dollars, and saved lives.

There is absolutely no moral high ground for the Democrats on this shutdown and securing the border. It's pure obstruction.



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When it comes down to shut downs, whoever is making the additional demands own the shut down. Uber partisans will of course blame the other side no matter what. The previous shut down was on the Dems, this one is Trump's and the GOP's.


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Trump losing support from core supporters

That to me was what he was willing to do the shut down in the first place, to please core supporters. Truly sad that this is what might actually hurt him, not all the damage he's created with this shut down.


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Trump said he was willing to shut it down, if Democrats wouldn't allow the piddly 5.7 trillion to fund the wall. He said it was too important not to fight for.

But ultimately, It was the Democrats who stubbornly dug in and refused to compromise, refused to even meet with Trump to discuss it, who left town so they were not even accessible to discuss a resolution with Trump. The Democrat leadership who have jerked around 800,000 federal employees indefinitely, just to spite Trump. And won't even meet with Trump and are deliberately prolonging this, because they rest assured the 80% liberal media (every network but Fox) are on their side and will spin it as Trump's fault, no matter what the facts. They see it as playing in their favor, the longer this shutdown lasts, so they are milking it cynically, and fuck the 800,000 federal employees counting on them to end it.

The cost of the shutdowwn has already far exceeded the amount Trump wanted for the wall. What justification is left at this point?


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The democrats are willing to demand nothing to reopen the government. I don't see a principled argument on your end.


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The principled argument is holding out for a wall that will release illegal border crossings and drug trafficcking by 95% (as it has in every other part of the border where walls have been built.) And preventing the victimization of tens of thousands of Americand and legal resident immigrants, who should never have been here in the first place.

Democrats have no principled argument for opposing Trump's 5.7 billion for a wall (that the cost of Democrats' shutdown has already far exceeded, what could have already funded a wall).

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Yeah I've read enough into it that I know that is all just bullshit. Trump still has money he hasn't spent yet for the border and has been dishonest about things like how much of the illegal immigration is a result of people overstaying visas. You are being dishonest by calling this a democrat shutdown. Democrats are willing to let Trump reopen the government and he can campaign for more republican control in '20. And really if Dems did give in to Trump's demands he would just keep on doing it on anything he can't get through congress. Considering he couldn't even win the popular vote last time I doubt he'll be able to score another electoral college again. Not to mention he could actually be impeached before than.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Yeah I've read enough into it that I know that is all just bullshit. Trump still has money he hasn't spent yet for the border and has been dishonest about things like how much of the illegal immigration is a result of people overstaying visas. You are being dishonest by calling this a democrat shutdown. Democrats are willing to let Trump reopen the government and he can campaign for more republican control in '20. And really if Dems did give in to Trump's demands he would just keep on doing it on anything he can't get through congress. Considering he couldn't even win the popular vote last time I doubt he'll be able to score another electoral college again. Not to mention he could actually be impeached before than.


Uh... with all due respect, more than half the illegals who cross the border aren't being captured, and the last two months have been record months for the number of illegals coming across and surrendering themsselves. And Border Patrol agents are inundated with child-illegals (thanks to Obama/Democrat policy that encourage more children coming) Border Patrol now devote 40% of their resources just to take care of and babysit children, and have even less agents to patrol the border.

How you can spin that as not being an actual crisis is beyond me.

And because Democrats have obstructed preventing the first waves of illegals and allowed them in, tens of thousaands more will now make the trip. Women and children, who human rights groups have already said between 60 to 80% of whom will be sexually abused, or even murdered or left to die in the desert, or sold into human slavery. Tens of thousands. As a direct result of cynical Democrat obstruction.



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And when Democrats repeatedly leave town and aren't even available to discuss Trump's offers of negotiation for a settlement, the shutdown is Pelosi and Schumer's and the Democrats' shutdown. There is absolutely no getting around that.

Pelosi, despite Trump's grounding her government plane, just boarded another plane and left the country. The 800,000 federal employees who are not getting paid this week should be real happy about that.


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They know she's not holding them hostage. It was stupid of Trump to even to try to hold them for ransom.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
They know she's not holding them hostage. It was stupid of Trump to even to try to hold them for ransom.


I don't even know where you're coming from with the "hostage/ransom" nrrative, I guess that's the lastest meme the Democrats are trying to sell.

It is a fact that Trump is trying to negotiate and didn't even leave Washington DC for Christmas and New Years, and has put proposaal after proposal on the table. And Peliosi, Schumer and the Democrats are constantly out of town and not available to meet with him, have rejected proposals before he even offered them. And that while Trump is making offers in good faith, Pelosi is a continent away on the other side of the world, not even trying to negotiate a solution so 800,000 federal employees could go back to work.

Pelosi thinks the liberal media will sell it as Trump's fault no matter what, and the more she prolongs it the more it will hurt Trump. But I think the tide is turning at this point, and despite DNCNN and MSDNC, the tide is now turning against the Democrats.

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It's simple WB, Dems want the shut down ended now while negotiations continue. Trump is using all the people working without pay to create pressure to force Dems to cede to his demands. And you can feel all you want but polling on this indicates he's rightfully losing support. He really is a truly awful man.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
It's simple WB, Dems want the shut down ended now while negotiations continue. Trump is using all the people working without pay to create pressure to force Dems to cede to his demands. And you can feel all you want but polling on this indicates he's rightfully losing support. He really is a truly awful man.



So their strategy to end the shutdown is... to NOT meet or negotiate with Trump?
Yeah, THAT makes sense.

It's increasingly obvious that Trump is working hard to negotiate a solution, and it is Democrats who are prolonging the shutdown for exploitative reasons.

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Trump walked out of the last meeting right away. He didn't bother to try to negotiate. Again it's the Dems that want to reopen the government now while negotiations continue. Why do you think Trump wants to keep it shut down?


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You're not talking specifics. There was a meeting a few days ago where Trump sat down with Pelosi and she made it clear she wouldn't fund a dime more for the border wall and he said "Bye bye" as he got up and left the table. Because she wouldn't negotiate.

Trump has almost daily offered proposal after proposal. The Democrats have mostly been ignoring his calls or been a continent away in Hawaii or Puerto Rico or Afghanistan. There are even Republicans who are angry at Trump for offering the Democrats too much. Meanwhile the Democrats offer no alternatives or compromises.

But Trump has.

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Trump wasn't willing to sit down for more than a couple of minutes before he walked out so spare me the spin. Dems want the government reopened now and negotiations can continue. He's not a king and like Obama he now has to work with a divided government and some actual oversight.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Trump wasn't willing to sit down for more than a couple of minutes before he walked out so spare me the spin. Dems want the government reopened now and negotiations can continue. He's not a king and like Obama he now has to work with a divided government and some actual oversight.


That promise by Pelosi sounds like a Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football situation.

AGAIN: Trump has remanined the entire time of the shutdown in Washington and has made multiple proposals, some of them generous enough in concessions that they piss off his conservative base. And it is Pelosi, not Trump, who won't bend at all, and has defiantly been out of town a continent away three times in three weeks.
I'm sorry these facts conflict with your wishful thinking.




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From Twiiter:

 Quote:


Matt Walsh
✔ @MattWalshBlog

Black adults to white kids: "F*ggots, crackers, bigots, incest kids."
White kids: [smiling, not responding]
Everyone: "omg did you see that smile?! So disrespectful!"


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I'm not the wishful thinker here. Run from the fact that it's Trump that is trying to use the shutdown to make people cede to his demands. He's causing this. Dems are ready to reopen government today.


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 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy



From Twiiter:

 Quote:


Matt Walsh
✔ @MattWalshBlog

Black adults to white kids: "F*ggots, crackers, bigots, incest kids."
White kids: [smiling, not responding]
Everyone: "omg did you see that smile?! So disrespectful!"





Guess I'm not everyone, maybe Matt should just speak for himself?


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I'm not the wishful thinker here. Run from the fact that it's Trump that is trying to use the shutdown to make people cede to his demands. He's causing this. Dems are ready to reopen government today.



Trump is holding out for 5.7 billion to build the wall, which was his primary campaign promise.

It is a fact that these same Democrats talked for years about securing the border, and now say it is "immoral" to do so.

It is a fact that these same Democrats funded over 100 miles of southern border fence/wall construction while Obama was president. It is hypocritial for them to oppose it now.

It is a fact that on the parts of the southern border where fences/walls have been built, illegal crossings, drugs and other crime have declined 95%.

It is a fact that illegal immigration costs the U.S. 136 billion a year, and securing the border for 5.7 billion, or even the full 25 billion up front, would pay for itself several times over in just the first year, and even more so going forward every year, for decades.

So you ask who is causing the shutdown? We all know the answer, it is the lying Democrats whose arguments are indefensible and hypocritical. Trump is holding out for what is right for the country. Period. The end.

With the shutdown, Democrats have already caused expenditures that far surpass what Trump was asking for, just to try and deprive him of a win. They are responsible for the shutdown, not Trump. Securing the border is the right thing to do.


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Hypocrisy is shutting the government down because of the deficit allegedly not that many years ago and now with record spending by the GOP requesting more money for a wall most Americans don't support. And you're confusing border security that most people agree is important to Trump's wall. Given the polling I'm seeing he's rightly taking a beating. Even with that if it was just a case of giving him wall money just this once I would say pay the ransom. But it would be just the start of more shutdowns.

Again Dems are ready to open the government without demanding anything extra. It's Trump that is keeping all those people working without pay for a wall that more of us don't want.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Hypocrisy is shutting the government down because of the deficit allegedly not that many years ago and now with record spending by the GOP requesting more money for a wall most Americans don't support. And you're confusing border security that most people agree is important to Trump's wall. Given the polling I'm seeing he's rightly taking a beating. Even with that if it was just a case of giving him wall money just this once I would say pay the ransom. But it would be just the start of more shutdowns.

Again Dems are ready to open the government without demanding anything extra. It's Trump that is keeping all those people working without pay for a wall that more of us don't want.



As I recall, Trump wanted 700 billion to rebuild our military, and the Democrats wouldn't approve the budget unless he alklowed another 900 billion for social spending, bringing the total to 1.6 trillion deficit in last year's federal budget.
Democrats are the ones driving up the budget, first through sequestration starving our military (so they could hose it away on social programs), and then forcing huge expenditures to rebuild it because it is so broken.

The "re-open the government first" is another false narrative and trick. Like Charlie Brown, Lucy and the football. As soon as Trump concedes, they would screw him (and the nation) again. Meanwhile, Democrats have shot down two bills that would have paid federal employees throughout the shutdown. Democrats want to hurt 800,000 federal employees, just because they think it plays to their political gain.


AGAIN: It was about a week ago that the cost of the federal shutdown exceeded the 5.7 billion Trump was holding out for. Democrats are hypocritical on evey level.


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Trump is right now announcing, after 35 days of shutdown, that he and the Dems have made a deal to reopen government for 3 weeks while they continue negotiating a more complete deal.

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I would normally enjoy him getting his ass handed to him by Pelosi but he caused a lot of needless pain and suffering with this shutdown. What an awful man.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I would normally enjoy him getting his ass handed to him by Pelosi but he caused a lot of needless pain and suffering with this shutdown. What an awful man.



Respectfully, Pelosi and Schumer are the ones who funded about 120 miles of border fence while Obama was president, and now hypocritically oppose funding border security Trump is fighting for.
The $5.7 billion is 1/8th of 1% of the annual federal budget, a tiny fraction of annual spending. As one example, the budget gives Ivy League universities $100 billion a year in federal subsidies that they don't even use, mostly put in bank accounts growing interest for Universities that are already rolling in cash with huge tuition fees.

And at least Trump is holding out for principle, for something the nation truly needs, to secure its borders. The "awful" men and women are the Democrats who deprived 800,000 employees of wages for 35 days, for no other reason than to spite Trump.

And what's truly awful is the women and children who are sexually abused, killed, and otherwise victimized by the drug cartels human trafficking the Democrats enable. Even more so, the hundreds of thousands of crimes annually by illegals inflicted on U.S. citizens, by people who should never have been here in the first place. The Democrats and their obstruction, and their sanctuary cities, are the architects of this.

Trump may have lost this battle. Or it could be looked at as a tactical retreat, to give the Dems enough rope to hang themselves in the next 3 weeks. I would argue that Trump is the one with more sympathy for federal employees than Schumer and Pelosi, since he was willing to end the shutdown for their benefit, and Pelosi was not.
The federal employees were inconvenienced. People like Kate Steinle and her family (killed by a Mexican illegal previously deported 5 times, who came back yet again, defiantly, with laughing contempt for our laws) have experienced a more permanent loss. And as Trump said when he announced the end of the shutdown, many border guards and TSA who were working without pay, actually encouraged Trump to continue the shutdown, because despite their circumstances they passionately believe in the importance of securing the border that Trump is fighting for.

"Awful" is a word I reserve for Pelosi, who refused to see a woman whose son was killed by an illegal immigrant because of Pelosi's policy. She wanted Pelosi to see the ashes of her son. Pelosi refused to see her!
A border guard less than a week ago said Border Patrol currently captures about 2,000 illegals a day (and they only catch about 50% of those who cross the border.) Amnesty International and other human rights groups estimate 60 to 80% of the women and children crossing are sexually abused. A situation Trump would stop, that Pelosi enables. Now that is "awful".


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https://theremembranceproject.org/rememb...ing-up-coffins/



The families of those killed support Trump's actions to secure the border.

As do even many who were not receiving paychecks during the shutdown.
You ask Border Patrol, ICE, and local police on the front line fighting drug cartels and the crime resulting from open borders, and every last one of them supports Trump. I think they know better than you or I, or Pelosi, what is needed to secure the border.

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I'm fine with sensible and effective border security but Trump tried forcing his crap through by using a shutdown that did more than inconvenience those government workers affected. Awful is pretending that they supported the shutdown. Some may have but it's dishonest to say it had anything close to majority support. Trump failed because republicans were turning on him. And do consider if he does an emergency declaration and it works it would be something my side will be using when the garbage gets hauled out in 2020.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I'm fine with sensible and effective border security but Trump tried forcing his crap through by using a shutdown that did more than inconvenience those government workers affected. Awful is pretending that they supported the shutdown. Some may have but it's dishonest to say it had anything close to majority support. Trump failed because republicans were turning on him. And do consider if he does an emergency declaration and it works it would be something my side will be using when the garbage gets hauled out in 2020.


You assume without evidence that a maajority don't.

Trump says many have written to him saying that they do.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary, you have nothing but your own partisan hatred of Trump to believe otherwise.

And I've just explained that "awful" is Democrats not securing the border, that allows tens of thousands of illegals to be sexually abused, abducted into human slavery as prostitutes, and killed. And a pecentage of those who illegally enter the country prey on, rob, rape and kill U.S. citizens, resulting in hundreds of thousands of crimes annually, by people who shouldn't even be here. But your Bolshevik party wants them here so they can vote illegally, and eventually become a Democrat majority.

Tammy Bruce last night on The Next Revolution cited that 65,000 illegals in California alone used their California driver license to lie and pretend to be eligible voters, and voted. You party is completely lacking in ethics. The party of lawlessness and corruption.


The Next Revolution -Jan 27, 2019, Sunday






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More Voter Fraud By Democrats topic

For much more on the subject of Democrat voter fraud and corruption.



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Lol, the voter fraud from the last election involved republicans down south and you didn't have anything to say about that. And Trump lost because his shutdown wasn't supported by people including I'm sure most of the workers he used as hostages. You know if he actually had that type of backing the results would have been different. Democrats made a mistake earlier on when they tried shutting down the government to force Trump to give into their demands. They at least quickly gave it up when they saw it wasn't working after a couple of days.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Lol, the voter fraud from the last election involved republicans down south and you didn't have anything to say about that. And Trump lost because his shutdown wasn't supported by people including I'm sure most of the workers he used as hostages. You know if he actually had that type of backing the results would have been different. Democrats made a mistake earlier on when they tried shutting down the government to force Trump to give into their demands. They at least quickly gave it up when they saw it wasn't working after a couple of days.


There was plenty more voter fraud by Democrats in Florida, in particular the Broward Supervisor of Elections, and as cited by Project Veritas in elections nationwide (as I linked in the other topci). Deception is a standard practice for Democrats, who lie to voters and cheat at every turn to win. As opposed to, say, Trump, who made promises and kept them like no other canddidate since Reagan, and Gingrich's contract wioth America.

In 2018, the whole time the recounts were being done in states and counties throughout the U.S., each recount the Democrats would gain votes! Always for the Democrats, never for the Republican, amazing how that works.

And California in particular...

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room...stration-rolls/




No, while election fraud occasionally happens on the Republican side, it is Democrats who have made it a staple of how they conduct elections. Double voting, paying voters, voting multiple times under different names, or just plain pretending to be something they're not to get elected, and laughing at the people gullible enough to believe their lies (again, the Project Veritas video, of SEVEN Democrat Senate and Congress candidates, AND apparently in the video everyone in their offices are in on the deception and cheer it on.)




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HERE IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF TRUMP DECLARES A STATE OF EMERGENCY ON THE BORDER -Josh Bernstein show




Someone named Josh Bernstein presents a 28-minute exploration of the tactical moves by both Trump and the Dems if a compromise is legislated, vs. if Trump issues an executive order. I learned quite a bit. He actually suggests a legislative compromise that resembles the 2008 "gang-of-8 bill", taking the best elements of that bill and rejecting thee portions that allow chain migration and amnesty for millions of illegals. It's a lucid suggestion for a bipartisan comromise.





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