RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Canada to Allow Same-Sex Marriage

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Animalman said:
Yes, it's true, it does require two components to create life.. However, there are so many heterosexual couples who are incapable of procreation for medical reasons. Should they believe that they are cursed? Should they believe that their lives have no purpose, because they can't actually conceive a child?

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Captain Sammitch said:
If he hasn't done anything in a long time and he really has repented, why are they still pitching him (npi) as a 'Gay Bishop'? If you kick the habit, are you still a smoker? If you get through detox and never shoot up again, are you still a drug user?

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Wednesday said:
Actually, I'd argue that your argument isn't notable. At all. The question of whether or not infertile heterosexual couples are wrong or cursed isn't any more or less valid based on the number of couples.

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The question is still valid whether it is 1,000,000 or 1,000,000,000, and you still haven't given an answer. All you've done is argue over the two most inconsequential words in his original question.

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Steve T said:
Well, if you quit smoking, you are no longer a smoker, whereas if you stop sleeping with men you are still gay, you are just not having sex.
Gay is about being attracted to men.

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Pariah said:
Although, I could reason with it since I feel that God wants us to make sacrifices and suffer for the sake of Him within our lifetimes.

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Then suffer already. Don't however expect the world to agree with you. I'm sure God has just as many issues with gay people as he does with little perverts obsessed with asian transexuals.

The fact that you all sit here and debate something that has little or no impact on your daily life...Fuck, I hate this thread. Everything in here is opinions on something that you all know nothing about, nor could you ever begin to comprehend.

If you are all so sure that God is going to smite me for my 'sins' than leave it up to Him. Do not sit here and declare yourselves moral authorities. I will never walk into a catholic church and call them down for the violent hypocricy they propogate...why should you all care this much over what I and my boyfriend might do?

I really hate this thread. I can't wait for the day when people look back and realize just how vile this sort of discussion really was.

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As for the last one, I found it amusing that man was created to "pleasure" God. I'm sure it's not the intended meaning mind you, just the way it was phrased made me bust a gut.

So it was either using the shocking graemlin or the LOL one. And the LOL one had already been used previously.

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I'm sure God has just as many issues with gay people as he does with little perverts obsessed with asian transexuals.

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klinton said:

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Pariah said:
Although, I could reason with it since I feel that God wants us to make sacrifices and suffer for the sake of Him within our lifetimes.

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Then suffer already. Don't however expect the world to agree with you. I'm sure God has just as many issues with gay people as he does with little perverts obsessed with asian transexuals.

The fact that you all sit here and debate something that has little or no impact on your daily life...Fuck, I hate this thread. Everything in here is opinions on something that you all know nothing about, nor could you ever begin to comprehend.

If you are all so sure that God is going to smite me for my 'sins' than leave it up to Him. Do not sit here and declare yourselves moral authorities. I will never walk into a catholic church and call them down for the violent hypocricy they propogate...why should you all care this much over what I and my boyfriend might do?

I really hate this thread. I can't wait for the day when people look back and realize just how vile this sort of discussion really was.

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klinton said:
Then suffer already.

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klinton said:
The fact that you all sit here and debate something that has little or no impact on your daily life...Fuck, I hate this thread. Everything in here is opinions on something that you all know nothing about, nor could you ever begin to comprehend.

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Well, not all, right?

But I've stopped debating in this thread. If the str8s for whom this issue will never impact their actual lives want to argue about it, let 'em.

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Pariah said:

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Steve T said:
Well, if you quit smoking, you are no longer a smoker, whereas if you stop sleeping with men you are still gay, you are just not having sex.
Gay is about being attracted to men.

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This is assuming individuals are born homosexual. An assumption you can't back up. So it's not that simple is it. You could say the same thing about Sammitch's argument, but I feel that standard would be broken since there are cases of homosexuals saying that they stopped being gay. Don't get me wrong, There's still a lot more to be understood, but I just find your argument unsupported.

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Pariah said:

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klinton said:
Then suffer already.

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As much as I possibly can without impeding on others' lives.

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klinton said:
And opposing gay marriage isn't impeding on others?

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Jim Jackson said:
I still say, if you disagree that homosexuality is a born-with, hard-wired aspect of an individual, you must give some kind of evidence, IMHO, to support another position. Especially if you accept that heterosexuality IS a born-with, hard-wired trait.

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klinton said:
You are attempting to deny happiness and security from others. How is that not inflicting suffering?

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Pariah said:

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klinton said:
You are attempting to deny happiness and security from others. How is that not inflicting suffering?

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That's a rather broad statement. A person can take happiness from murder. But really it's wrong. Homosexuality, while not necessarily as bad as murder, is something I still see in the category of wrong.

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Steve T said:
Quick question:
There was a big fuss in the Anglican church last year because they wanted to promote a Gay Bishop.
He had been celibate for a long time because the bible said it was wrong. A big fuss was made and his promotion blocked.
Where do you lot stand on this situation?

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Pariah said: I, myself, don't really see much problem with a gay priest. The Church doesn't turn them away. Like straight people, they are told not to have premarital sex--However, because the act of sodomy is an abomination, they must also acknowledge that the sex they feel predisposed to, which they are abstaing from, is not moral in any sense of the word. Due to this, I can understand the views of why gay priests shouldn't be priests. A priest is bound by his chosen religion and overall place in life to preach the immorality of homosexuality. A gay priest who is simply abstaining from sex would be likely give this message backwards since he's gay and gay sex is not allowed in the Catholic religion. As a Catholic, you must adhere to the religion's requirements. It's a type of conflict of interest if you will. Admissioning someone who thinks homosexual sex is nothing amoral as a priest would be an oxymoron since that would mean he doesn't actually follow Catholic doctrine. A priest can validate sex (not premarital of course), but one cannot validate sodomy. If it's a gay priest that finds/admits his urges unnatural and all around not right though, I don't see the problem.

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Pariah said:
I don't find sodomy to be harmless or okay--And I'm saying this from a secular as well as spiritual POV. If it was casually associated with society, I feel it could turn into a major problem.

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Pariah said:
I don't think sexuality is a hard-wired trait. All forms of sexuality (and that includes fetishes) are developed. I simply think that anyone who deviates away from heterosexuality is a bit insane in the membrane.

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Pariah said:
Homosexuality, while not necessarily as bad as murder, is something I still see in the category of wrong.

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Pariah said:
I don't find sodomy to be harmless or okay--And I'm saying this from a secular as well as spiritual POV. If it was casually associated with society, I feel it could turn into a major problem.

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klinton said:
Refresh my memory. How is being gay (and please refrain from using the term sodomy...I don't look at myself as the sum of a physical act. Being gay implies interest in members of the same sex on every level of attraction...If we were just interested in sex, marriage wuld not be an issue) harmful?

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Allowing us to live as equals and live openly will help to dismantle and remove these things from society. This is bad?

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Pariah said:
It wouldn't be harmful as long as homosxuals refrained from sex. There are other ways to express love.

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Jim Jackson said:
But don't we have to remove the spiritual from the equation, since the United States is not a Christian theocracy? So given that, how is sodomy not ok? Between two consenting adults, what's the problem? To use your terminolgoy, where's the harm?

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Jim Jackson said:
Developed....how? As one of my professors used to say, you need to unpack the word "developed."

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A bit insane?

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Pariah said:
Life occurences. Exposure to certain influencing elements. How pathologies usually develop

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The World Health Organization estimates that in the year 2000 approximately one million people will die from suicide. A global mortality rate of 16 per 100,000. One death every 40 seconds.

The WHO further reports that:

In the last 45 years suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide. Suicide is now among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 (both sexes). Suicide attempts are up to 20 times more frequent than completed suicides.

Although suicide rates have traditionally been highest among elderly males, rates among young people have been increasing to such an extent that they are now the group at highest risk in a third of all countries.

Mental disorders (particularly depression and substance abuse) are associated with more than 90% of all cases of suicide. However, suicide results from many complex socio-cultural factors and is more likely to occur during periods of socioeconomic, family and individual crisis (e.g. loss of a loved one, employment, honour).

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§ Over 30,000 people in the United States kill themselves every year.



§ Currently, suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the U.S.



§ A person dies by suicide about every eighteen minutes in the U.S. An attempt is estimated to be made once every minute.



§ Ninety percent of all people who die by suicide have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder at the time of their death.



§ There are more than four male suicides for every female suicide, but twice as many females as males attempt suicide.



§ Every day, approximately 80 Americans take their own life, and 1,500 more attempt to do so.

YOUTH


§ Suicide is the fifth leading cause of death among all those 5–14 years old.



§ Suicide is the third leading cause of death among all those 15–24 years old.



§ The suicide rate for white males aged 15–24 has tripled since 1950, while for white females it has more than doubled.



§ Between 1980–1996, the suicide rate for African-American males aged 15–19 has also doubled.



§ Risk factors for suicide among the young include suicidal thoughts, psychiatric disorders (such as depression, impulsive aggressive behavior, bipolar disorder, certain anxiety disorders), drug and/or alcohol abuse and previous suicide attempts, with the risk increased if there is situational stress and access to firearms.



OLDER PEOPLE


§ The suicide rates for men rise with age, most significantly after age 65.



§ White men over 50 who make up less than a quarter of the population are responsible for almost 40 percent of all suicides.



§ The suicide rates for women peak between the ages of 45–64 years old, and do so again after age 75.



§ Most elderly patients who complete suicide see their physicians within a few months of their death and more than a third within the week of their suicide.



§ Eight to 20 percent of older Americans and up to 37 percent in primary care settings experience symptoms of depression.



§ Risk factors for suicide among the elderly include the presence of a mental illness — especially depression and alcohol abuse; the presence of a physical illness; social isolation — especially being widowed in males; and the availability of firearms in the home.



DEPRESSION


§ Over 60 percent of all people who die by suicide suffer from major depression. If one includes alcoholics who are depressed,
this figure rises to over 75 percent.



§ Depression affects nearly 10 percent of Americans ages 18 and over in a given year, or more than 19 million people.



§ More Americans suffer from depression than coronary heart disease (7 million), cancer (6 million) and AIDS (200,000) combined.



§ About 15 percent of the population will suffer from clinical depression at some time during their lifetime. Thirty percent of all clinically depressed patients attempt suicide; half of them ultimately succeed.



§ Depression is among the most treatable of psychiatric illnesses. Some estimates suggest that between 80 percent and 90 percent of people with depression respond positively to treatment, and almost all patients gain some relief from their symptoms. But first, depression has to be recognized.



ALCOHOL AND SUICIDE


§ Ninety-six percent of alcoholics who die by suicide continue their substance abuse up to the end of their lives.



§ Alcoholism is a factor in about 30 percent of all completed suicides.



§ Approximately 7 percent of those with alcohol dependence will die by suicide.



§ Click here to read an article about alcoholism and suicide risk.

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Pariah said:

It wouldn't be harmful as long as homosxuals refrained from sex. There are other ways to express love. Which was my point, which you seem to understand. Homosexual civil unions without the homosexuality I wouldn't have a problem with. But that's not the case, there's no abstainance in the past and there's none now. Not speaking legally, homosexual marriage, on its own, encourages sodomy and the view that there's nothing wrong with it--And there is. Especially with great volume.

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We do live as equals. By law you are afforded the same rights as everyone else--With the exception of certain marriage benefits because they are more promptu for straight couples, plus the marriage design wasn't meant to accomodate homosexual requisites. The actions of bigots don't represent the law as governed by the United States of America or the Canadian government.

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Bipolar Disorder and Suicide Prevention
Almost 2 million Americans currently suffer from bipolar disorder. An estimated 3–20 percent of persons diagnosed with bipolar disorder die by suicide.

Approximately 20 percent of all patients with bipolar disorder have their first episode during adolescence but diagnosis is often delayed for years. Delayed recognition that low moods (depression) and highs (mania) are symptoms of a treatable mental disorder can foster related problems, such as substance abuse and suicidal behaviors.

Early recognition and treatment of bipolar disorder may prevent years of needless suffering and death by suicide. Eighty percent to 90 percent of people who have bipolar disorder can be treated effectively with medication and psychotherapy.

The mood stabilizers lithium carbonate, carbamazepine and valproate, are the most commonly prescribed medications to treat bipolar disorder. Lithium carbonate has shown more effectiveness in preventing suicidal behaviors associated with bipolar disorder.

The death rate for untreated bipolar patients is higher than that of most types of heart disease and many types of cancer.


Studies of bipolar patients indicate that 25–50 percent of persons with this illness make at least one suicide attempt.


Studies indicate that most bipolar patients who die by suicide communicate their suicidal state to others, most often through direct and specific statements of suicidal intent.


People suffering from bipolar disorder may die by suicide earlier in the course of this chronic illness than patients with other mental disorders. Recent hospital discharge is a very high-risk time.


Hopelessness, a family history of suicide and previous attempts indicate bipolar patients at highest risk of suicide.


Maintaining treatment for bipolar illness is critical. The suicide rate in the first year off lithium treatment is 20 times that during treatment.


This site gives consumers and families information for locating mental health services anywhere in the country: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/HealthInformation/GettingHelp.cfm

Early and accurate diagnosis of bipolar disorder and aggressive professional treatment are essential in preventing suicide.

Source: National Center for Health Statistics, 2001


Depression and Suicide Prevention

An estimated 19 million Americans suffer from depression.

Clinical depression is not a temporary case of the “blues.” People with depression may experience recurrent episodes of depression that can last anywhere from a few hours to a few months.

Depression is present if at least five or more of the following symptoms are present during a two-week period; at least one of the symptoms must be either depressed mood or loss of interest or pleasure in usual activities.

Depressed mood
Loss of interest or pleasure in usual activities
Change in appetite or weight
Change in sleeping patterns
Speaking and/or moving with unusual speed or slowness
Loss of interest or pleasure in usual activities
Decrease in sexual drive
Fatigue or loss of energy
Feelings of worthlessness, self-reproach or guilt
Diminished ability to think or concentrate, slowed thinking or indecisiveness
Thoughts of death, suicide, or wishes to be dead
Additional factors that point to an increased risk for suicide in depressed individuals are:

Anxiety, agitation, or enraged behavior
Isolation
Drug and/or alcohol use or abuse
History of physical or emotional illness
Feelings of hopelessness or desperation
Facts About Depression

Women suffer from depression twice as much as men. This two-to-one ratio exists regardless of racial and ethnic background or economic status.
Depression in people 65 and older increases the risk of stroke and other medical complications.
The economic cost of depressive illnesses is $30 million to $44 billion a year.

More Americans (19 million) suffer from depression than coronary heart disease (7 million), cancer (6 million), and AIDS (200,000).


Even though effective treatments are available, only one in three depressed people gets help.
Depression And Suicide

Although most depressed people are not suicidal, two-thirds of those who die by suicide suffer from a depressive illness.


About 15 percent of the population will suffer from depression at some time during their life. Thirty percent of all depressed inpatients attempt suicide.

Medical Illness and Depression

Researchers believe that after an initial attack of severe depression 70 percent of people are vulnerable to another episode.


The following illnesses are commonly associated with later-life depression: cancer, Parkinson’s disease, heart disease, stroke and Alzheimer’s disease.


Research shows that depression and heart disease often accompany each other and that each can lead to the other. While roughly one in six people have an episode of major depression, the number goes to one in two for people with heart disease.


About 25 percent of cancer patients suffer from clinical depression.


Depression in people 65 and older increases the risk of stroke and other medical complications.

Nearly eight out of ten patients with depressive illness will improve through treatment with medicine and psychotherapy. Prevent suicide through early recognition and treatment of depression and other psychiatric illnesses.

Creativity, Depression and Suicide Prevention
For several centuries, stories of famous painters, writers and musicians who were depressed and took their lives made people wonder. Only in the last 25 years has scientific evidence demonstrated that creative people are more vulnerable to depression and suicide, regardless of whether or not they become famous. More research is needed to determine which:

Patients suffering from depressive or manic depressive disorders are most vulnerable to suicide
Treatments will control the disorder without interfering with the artists’ ability to create.
Throughout history artists, writers and musicians have seemed to suffer disproportionately from mood disorders. Only recently has research concluded that a high percentage of artists — both past and contemporary — have, in fact, suffered from affective illness, particularly manic-depressive disorder.

Treatment of major depressive illness in artists has presented unique problems; partly because of a concern that creativity and the disorder are so intertwined that treatment might destroy the artists’ unique talent.

By supporting study of current approaches to treatment, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention hopes to encourage the development of new options for today’s creators, options unfortunately unavailable for yesterday’s greats.

Cases in Particular Arts

The Literary Arts
Recent studies have shown that poets and writers are four times more likely than others to suffer from affective disorders, particularly manic depression. Dickinson, Eliot, and Poe are among the many poets who suffered from an affective illness. Writers such as Balzac, Conrad, Dickens, Emerson, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, Ibsen, Melville, and Tolstoy also suffered from the illness. In many cases, the writer's depression led to suicide: John Berryman, Sylvia Plath, Anne Sexton, Ernest Hemingway and Virginia Woolf.
The Visual Arts
Painters, sculptors, and other visual artists have also been afflicted by depressive disorders. Gaugin, Jackson Pollock, Michelangelo, and Georgia O'Keeffe suffered from depression. Van Gogh, Arshile Gorky and Mark Rothko committed suicide. Contemporary designers are plagued by alcohol and drug abuse, which are associated with depression.
The Musical Arts
The death of Nirvana’s Kurt Cobain brought the issue of suicide into the spotlight. But the problem was not new to the music world. Classical composers such as Rachmaninoff, Schumann and Tchaikovsky suffered from affective disorders. Irving Berlin, Charles Mingus, Charlie Parker and Cole Porter also suffered from depressive illnesses.
The Theatrical Arts
For many performing artists, the link between depression and suicide has been complicated by the effects of drug and alcohol abuse. For actresses like Marilyn Monroe and Judy Garland, it remains unclear whether the cause of death was accidental overdose or suicide. Also, the tendency toward depression and suicide often shows up in the children of these performers, suggesting a familial link. [/quoe]

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Batwoman said:
What makes you think "the high suicide rates and sever depression that are characteristic of gay men and women. " Wont still be there if gay marriage is legalized?

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Batwoman said:
As I said, that wont make a difference. If I person is depressed enough to kill themselves, regardless of their sexual choice then legalizing gay marriage wont change things. If tey don't talk to anyone and keep their feelings bottled up, then gay, straight, sick, healthy, whatever, they will kill themselves.

To say legalizing gay marriage will change this is just an excuse.

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klinton said:
Once again, marriage is a buisness transaction. People get married every day for status, for financial security and any number of non-child rearing reasons (including politics and public approval).

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Batwoman said:
As I said, that wont make a difference. If I person is depressed enough to kill themselves, regardless of their sexual choice

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Jim Jackson said:
Sorry, man, but this says very little.

Tell me, who influenced me to be gay?

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klinton said:
Huh? You're hung up on where I put my cock? That's it? The sum of your argument? Holy shit.

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Once again, marriage is a buisness transaction. People get married every day for status, for financial security and any number of non-child rearing reasons (including politics and public approval). If you are willing to deny gay marriage becasue it cannot biologicaly produce children...there are plenty of other targets that deserve your equal attention as well. If you're not willing to address them, then you have no buisness discussing this.

And I think you need to look up the word bigot. Your definition is way the fuck off.

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