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Quote:
Dave the Wonder Boy said:
I always thought Julius Schwartz was a hard-nosed grouch after reading this story, and was very pleasantly surprised when I met him at the 1987 San Diego Comic Con, to see what a pleasant and soft-spoken guy he is.
Or was, until he recently passed away a month or two ago. 
I think writers saw him as a grouch because he actually EDITed their stories, forcing them to revise them, plug plot holes and pace them correctly.
We could use a few more editors like him today.
Instead of the starfuckers we now have, who seem to exist only to throw money at "big names" and lure them into exclusive contracts...under which they promptly lose all ability to tell a cohesively plotted, correctly paced story (Loeb and Bendis, I'm talking to YOU).
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Yes, Schwartz was a very precise editor, with a lot of attention to detail. I recall in one Schwartz interview that he was very proud of how his books never had any typos or mis-spellings, and that the frequency of such errors in books by other editors really annoyed him. How 'bout editor Jack Schiff, who preceded Schwartz editing the BATMAN and DETECTIVE line in the 1950's and early 1960's, with some truly bad storytelling, taking Batman on all kinds of unlikely time-travel and science fiction adventures to other worlds. Schiff also tried to create a pantheon of goofy supporting characters for Batman like Superman had under Mort Weisinger, such as Batwoman, Batgirl (the first one), Bat-hound, Bat-mite, etc, an endless array of unsightly Bat-suits for different missions and (my favorite... ) the Flying Batcave !! Most of which has been mercifully forgotten from continuity in recent decades.  
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Having just read a review of JLA 100, I think we have a brand new WTF, courtesy of Joe Kelly.
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Chewy Walrus said:. I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
.
And Animalman #26. I guess some people saw that as a big WTF. . But a fun one!  While I'm not a big Grant Morrison fan, I did like the writer's commentary on the state of comics through this story which goes through issues 20-26, where Animalman follows a murder to its source, the writer of the series ! Morrison (in this 1989 series) talks about, in the post-CRISIS era (1986-forward), the regrettable loss to readers of those infinite worlds of the pre-CRISIS DC Multiverse we all used to enjoy. Through the character Psycho-Pirate (who has an odd connection to a supply of Silver Age comics that appear out of thin air) Morrison laments the lost sense of whimsey of Silver Age/pre-CRISIS comics, where virtually any type of comics adventure was possible. With cameo appearances by the Inferior Five, Jason's Quest, and a whole bunch of other long-forgotten 60's DC characters. Morrison has them living in a "Limbo" town, waiting for new adventures to be scripted about them. And through the story, laments the turn toward dark steroid-pumped sadistic characters, that are perceived as more "realistic". ( I loved the Green Team, from FIRST ISSUE SPECIAL, trying to buy their way out of Limbo ) And I like the idea (however frequently used by others before Morrison) that these characters aren't gone forever, that they live on, every time someone reads their back issues. And that they can always be revived in a new appearance or series. I like Ultraman's uneasiness with the idea of being revived as a dark character, fondly remembering the lightness and fun of his earlier appearances ( ironic for Morrison to write this, if you read his JLA: EARTH 2 graphic novel, released in 2000, which had a particularly dark take on Ultraman and the Crime Syndicate. ) And in ANIMAL MAN issue 26, Morrison (writing himself into the story, talking to Animalman) explains his own writing style and ambitions for the series, in a story that's mostly talking heads, explaining as he injects fight scenes, violence, and shock elements, to keep the reader interested while he tells a story that would otherwise, in his estimation, not be interesting to readers.     covers, issues 23-26
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The best story of the type Morrison told in these ANIMAL MAN issues is "Pictopia" by Alan Moore and Don Simpson, in ANYTHING GOES # 2.  Like the characters in these stories, I too feel alienated from the dark world that modern comics have become, and dislike having characters who were formerly charming and familiar old friends morphed into dark and threatening "realistic" new versions, that I no longer like or am comfortable with. Moore and Morrison have both lamented this dark trend in these above stories, while simultaneously making a huge contribution to darkening the market in their other work. Again: WTF ?!? Moore said in a COMIC BOOK ARTIST magazine interview that his ABC line, particularly his TOM STRONG series, was an attempt to regain that upbeat heroism. --------------------  "This Man, This Wonder Boy..."
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The "dark" comics by people like Moore, Morrison, Gaiman and (sometimes) Miller are dark only in the surface. They use the "darkness" as a vehicle to touch deeper topics, as opposed to the people that followed Moore and Miller, that wrote comics with a dark surface and nothing under it. People who read Watchmen and DKR and say "wow, how dark" are missing the real point of those comics.
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Actually that is correct and all those mentioned writers would agree .
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I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
The "dark" comics by people like Moore, Morrison, Gaiman and (sometimes) Miller are dark only in the surface. They use the "darkness" as a vehicle to touch deeper topics, as opposed to the people that followed Moore and Miller, that wrote comics with a dark surface and nothing under it. People who read Watchmen and DKR and say "wow, how dark" are missing the real point of those comics. Well, opinions vary on that. I think the work of Moore, Morrison, Gaiman and Miller, even from the 80's, are pretty dark. The stories of Moore and Miller are multi-layered, and have bright moments, and redeem themselves beyond their darkness by having something meaningful to say, but are still unmistakeably dark. Rorschach in the WATCHMEN "The Abyss Gazes Also" chapter... I don't think there's a bright way to interpret that. Alan Moore in a COMICS JOURNAL interview (issue 138) said it depressed him deeply to crawl inside the mind of Rorschach to fully flesh out the character in this chapter. And as I said on the previous page, Moore said in a COMIC BOOK ARTIST interview that himself and others had unwittingly brought about a Dark Age in comics with their 1980's work, and that he was attempting to bring back an optimism and upbeat heroism that had been lost, when he created new titles like TOM STRONG and other ABC titles. [ COMIC BOOK ARTIST # 9, August 2000, in an issue on Charleton characters and creators, pages 108-109. ] http://twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/09moore.html- CBA: But you were able to purge yourself pretty quick, right? You didn't write that many, maybe four or five Superman stories?
Alan: And that was enough. Those were ones I wanted to write, but since then, most characters have changed so much that they no longer feel to me like the characters I knew. So, I wouldn't have that kind of nostalgic interest in those sort of characters anymore. At the time, I was also saying I didn't feel that if there was some strong political message I wanted to get over, probably super-hero comics were not the best place to do it. If I wanted to do stuff about the environment, that there didn't need to be a swamp monster there, for instance. When I did Brought to Light, about the CIA activities in World War II, that story would not have been greatly enhanced by a guy with his underwear outside his trousers, you know. And also, there did seem to be a rash of quite heavy, frankly depressing and overtly pretentious super-hero comics that came out in the wake of Watchmen, and I felt to some degree responsible for bringing in a fairly morbid Dark Age...
Miller's work, from RONIN forward, is deeply cynical, and arguably paranoid in its portrayal of government. DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, DARK KNIGHT STRIKES BACK, GIVE ME LIBERTY, SIN CITY, ELECKTRA:ASSASSIN and HARD BOILED being prime examples. I could find a few stories in Gaiman's SANDMAN that are upbeat (issue 50 in particular) but mostly I just found it very somber and morose. I read the first four trades and scattered issues after, and fail to see what people rave about. It's not horrible, but it's far from the best I've seen in comics. I personally despise Morrison's works, although there are a few Morrison stories I somewhat like conceptually, although I find his work likewise pretentious, and (Gaiman-like ) full of quickie references to literature characters without really fleshing them out in his stories beyond the slightest cameo-reference, so I constantly envision Morrison musing to himself (and Gaiman as well) : Ah, look how clever I am to know this !I'm not impressed. All that said, if I were to recommend to someone some of the best written and illustrated comic series of the last 40 years, I would name at the top of the list Moore's SWAMP THING, MIRACLEMAN, V FOR VENDETTA, WATCHMEN, and SUPERMAN: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW. And also Miller's DAREDEVIL, BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, and BATMAN: YEAR ONE. Nothing by Morrison or Gaiman, despite some decent stories, would make my list though. But because these above series are dark works, I have a much greater fondness for: - Wein/Wrightson SWAMP THING 1-10 (DARK GENESIS trade)
- Joe Kubert's TARZAN 207-235
- Goodwin/Simonson MANHUNTER
- Jack Kirby's FOREVER PEOPLE, NEW GODS, MISTER MIRACLE, JIMMY OLSEN, KAMANDI, and O.M.A.C.
- O'Neil/Adams DETECTIVE (just out in hardcover) and BATMAN
- O'Neil/Kaluta THE SHADOW
- Englehart/Perez and Shooter/Perez AVENGERS 141-178, and Michelinie/Byrne AVENGERS 181-191
- Englehart/Rogers Batman in DETECTIVE 471-476 (reprinted in the BATMAN:STRANGE APPARITIONS trade)
- Michelinie/Romita Jr/Layton IRON MAN 115-156
- McGregor/Russell/etc.'s AMAZING ADVENTURES/Killraven 18-39
- Bruce Jones/Brent Anderson/Ron Frenz KA-ZAR 1-27
- Levitz/Giffen LEGION 285-306
- Stern/Romita Jr AMAZING SPIDERMAN 224-250
And many other series. While I've re-read the Moore and Miller stuff many times, I've re-read these latter books and other series far more often. They're a heck of a lot more fun. I'm impressed by the brilliance of Moore's and Miller's prose, and find that exciting as well. But the humor, warmth and heroism of the latter series I listed are what I more often prefer. I'd agree that the ones, as you say, Mxy, "who followed Moore and Miller" imitated the dark surface elements without replicating the enduring quality and complexity of Moore and Miller's 80's works. Which is why these 80's works are still regarded as the high-water mark of comics storytelling, and the works that have followed are regarded as pretentious, derivative, and inferior by comparison. -------------------- "This Man, This Wonder Boy..."
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Possibly the biggest WTF ever in comics history, is both the story and surrounding circumstances of the death of Jean Grey in X-MEN 137, in 1980.  Phoenix, after killing the 6 billion asparagus people, by eating the star that kept their planet alive (X-MEN 135), was planned by writer Claremont to get a "psychic lobotomy" to reduce her powers and eliminate the threat of Dark Phoenix. The story for X-MEN 137 was completely written, pencilled, inked, and sent to the editor to go to press. But at the last minute, then-editor-in-chief Jim Shooter read the story, pre-press, and said: No way Jean Grey lives! She killed 6 billion asparagus people, she can't be allowed to just go back to being Jean Grey. Or words to that effect. But the issue was already planned to go out, so they (Claremont, Byrne and Austin) were instructed to re-do the five-page conclusion of X-MEN 137, and have Phoenix die. And as I recall, the book was two or three weeks late, but still came out, with much controversy. Claremont had originally planned to have Scott Summers and Jean Grey marry and have children. So this "death" really screwed things up for Claremont's long-term planning of the series over the next three or four years. Claremont finally brought his original ideas back into the series, despite Jean Grey's death, by having Jean and Scott's daughter (Rachel) "time-slip sideways" into Marvel continuity from an alternate reality where Scott and Jean still married and had their daughter. And she (Rachel) escaped armageddon in her world to take up residence in the Marvel universe (sometime during the Claremont/Sienkiewicz run of NEW MUTANTS). I thought this was a fit of genius on Claremont's part ! He got to have his cake and eat it too, as far as exploring his original ideas for the X-men characters. Claremont was apparently hugely pissed off at X-MEN editor Jim Salicrup for whatever glitch kept Shooter from knowing all along what was planned for Phoenix, and forcing the X-MEN creative team, at the absolute last minute, under tremendous deadline pressure, to come up with an alternate ending. Salicrup was soon replaced by Louise Jones as editor of the X-titles. The original ending for X-MEN 137 finally saw print in 1983/1984 in a one-shot Baxter book, PHOENIX: THE UNTOLD STORY.  A WTF and a half !
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Quote:
Dave the Wonder Boy said:I think the work of Moore, Morrison, Gaiman and Miller, even from the 80's, are pretty dark.
I never denied they were dark, all I said is it wasn't darkness for the sake of darkness. The darkness serves the story and is there for a purpose.
Quote:
The stories of Moore and Miller are multi-layered, and have bright moments, and redeem themselves beyond their darkness by having something meaningful to say
As do Morrison and Gaiman, in spite of the fact that you don't like their work.
Quote:
And as I said on the previous page, Moore said in a COMIC BOOK ARTIST interview that himself and others had unwittingly brought about a Dark Age in comics with their 1980's work, and that he was attempting to bring back an optimism and upbeat heroism that had been lost, when he created new titles like TOM STRONG and other ABC titles.
Exactly, but the dark comics trend was born from the misinterpretation of Moore and Miller's work: as I said before, people ignored the message and stayed with the darkness because it was "cool". I think comics today would be different if writers had imitated the other aspect of those comics instead.
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I think we're more in agreement than in disagreement, Not-Mxy. Except that you have a more favorable opinion of Gaiman and Morrison, and I obviously don't. But that's just preference. I'm Not Mr Mxypltk said:. Dave the Wonder Boy said
.
And as I said on the previous page, Moore said in a COMIC BOOK ARTIST interview that himself and others had unwittingly brought about a Dark Age in comics with their 1980's work, and that he was attempting to bring back an optimism and upbeat heroism that had been lost, when he created new titles like TOM STRONG and other ABC titles. . Exactly, but the dark comics trend was born from the misinterpretation of Moore and Miller's work: as I said before, people ignored the message and stayed with the darkness because it was "cool". I think comics today would be different if writers had imitated the other aspect of those comics instead. But that would require work on the part of modern creators! And talent !  I agree that exploiting the most surface elements of Moore and Miller's work is what's occurring, and has been for 20 years. And that's for the precise reason that it's easy. I dislike, not only in the comics field, but in movies, television, music, and pretty much every entertainment form, that publishers, etc., don't even try for originality. They try to find what they perceive as the ONE magic formula of "what sells", and when they think they have it, they machine-stamp a billion imitations of it. And worst of all, when they do find people with original ideas and talent, they still want the talented material to be re-packaged into "what sells". I miss the 70's and early 80's period, and prior, where there was also a fair amount of cloning of that era's perceived "what sells", but at the same time publishers were not afraid to put something completely new out there.    For that matter, I wonder if even Alan Moore's SWAMP THING, if it were first presented in the modern era, would last 6 issues. Even at its peak, despite almost immediate critical acclaim, Moore's SWAMP THING was at best a moderate seller. But DC believed in the book and promoted it hard with house ads in all their books, to the point that it had a chance to become a moderate seller, enough to keep it on the stands. Whereas books before it (like Adams' STRANGE ADVENTURES/Deadman, like Kubert's STAR SPANGLED/Enemy Ace, like Kirby's NEW GODS and FOREVER PEOPLE, like McGregor/Russell's AMAZING ADVENTURES/Killraven ) were cancelled relatively quickly when they couldn't build the desired level of sales. Which is a WTF of some sort, to have prematurely ended these great series, without giving them more of a chance. Kirby's NEW GODS more than any other, cried out for completion. And I don't mean tragic HUNGER DOGS-style, half-heartedly and 13 years after the magic was gone.
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As mentioned in more detail on the favorite cover thread: One of the biggest WTFs was when Superman was turned into THE VAMPIRE OF STEEL 
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 (click to enlarge)That is a funny one, G-man. Here's a link to an enlargement of the cover, where you can read the captions, and really get a good look at the Vampire of Steel : It looks to be a Jim Aparo cover, possibly inked by Giordano. It's somewhat similar to this SUPERMAN 422 cover by Brian Bolland:  Although the Bolland cover doesn't have all the incongruent goofy elements you cite.
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Thanks for a bigger version, dtwb.
I'd tried to find one for my post.
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In Brave and Bold Number 115, " The Corpse that Wouldn't Die," Batman was shot, put in a coma and the Atom animated his comatose body by running around his brain and jumping on the correct neurons. Eventually Batman got better, which Atom deduced was the result of him stimulating Bat's brain activity with all his hopping about.
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Yeah, I remember reading that BRAVE & THE BOLD 115 story when I was about 11 years old.  Even at that age, it seemed implausible to me, Atom running around Batman's brain, pressing on different motor-centers of the brain to make him move, like a giant comatose marionette. But it was a fun story, and I took it in stride. Did you read the story in BATMAN 260, with the Joker?  (February 1975, story by Dennis O'Neil, art by Irv Novick and Dick Giordano) The Joker sprays a gas that causes Batman to laugh uncontrollably in odd situations, such as viewing a corpse at a funeral. Which causes Batman to double over with laughter each time, unable to fight, when the Joker tells Batman sick, morose, or just plain stupid and unfunny jokes. A doctor injects Batman at the end of the story with a cure to Joker's poison, and asks Batman: DOCTOR: "How were you able to overcome the serum last night and save my life?"BATMAN: "Simple Doctor. I reasoned that the drug caused me to laugh when I was confronted by horror... death... violence !
Therefore, I theorized that something genuinely funny would affect me the opposite way.
So [while fighting the Joker ] I simply concentrated on the funniest scenes from all the Marx Brothers pictures." You can almost hear Batman saying this in an Adam West voice.
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Uh...actually...I liked that Joker story with Batman thinking about the Marx Brothers ....
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They should do stories like that nowadays! Batman doesn't team up with anyone cool anymore, like Jerry Lewis...
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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That Jerry Lewis team up was pretty funny. Batman and Robin spent a big chunk of the issue complaining about how the TV show had ruined their reputations and inspired a slew of bad rip offs. http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/oddball/index.cgi?date=2000-12-22
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the G-man said:Uh...actually...I liked that Joker story with Batman thinking about the Marx Brothers .... Well, I liked it too, but I found this particular part of the story a little goofy. I thought the scene where Bruce Wayne started laughing uncontrollably at the funeral was creepy and well done. And I enjoyed O'Neil's stories for THE JOKER comic book series, which began about 6 months after this story in BATMAN 260 was published. Here's a link to a topic where the JOKER comic was discussed: 
Has anyone read the 1975 JOKER series ?
HERE
I don't know if you saw me post it earlier, but the Dennis O'Neil runs in BATMAN and DETECTIVE COMICS from 1970-1975 are my favorite era of Batman stories. That's roughly BATMAN 216-266, and more scattered scripts in DETECTIVE COMICS 395-481. When O'Neil wasn't scripting, Frank Robbins usually was, and I found Robbins' stories equally enjoyable. Particularly the Man-Bat stories in DETECTIVE 400, 402, 407, 429 and others. Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, and Archie Goodwin also gave a similar consistency to the character. We're ripping a lot in this topic on Bob Haney, but I enjoy his B & B stories too. Especially from issues 79 to about 130. But whether with pencils by Neal Adams,Irv Novick, Bob Brown, Jim Aparo, Dick Giordano or whoever, these were great issues, and O'Neil for my money had his finger on the pulse of exactly what Batman is about. BATMAN was portrayed as an intelligent and relentless detective, lurking in the shadows, waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And in addition to being a master detective, he was a master of diplomacy, who played well with others, instead of the driven, tormented intimidating jerk, who is now much more abrasive and confrontational, as he's mostly been portrayed for the last 15-20 years. After his BATMAN and DETECTIVE runs, O'Neil also did some good stories with Michael Golden and others, in BATMAN FAMILY from 1977-1980.
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Oh, definitely, there is no question. O'Neill was the best writer Batman ever had. Englehart and Goodwin also turned in some classic stories during that era. In each case, they demonstrated that it was possible to have a Batman who was grim and obsessed without being a nasty psycho. They also made sure that Batman was as much "the World's Greatest Detective," not just "the worlds' greatest leg breaker who gets a lot of info from Oracle." Quote:
I thought the scene where Bruce Wayne started laughing uncontrollably at the funeral was creepy and well done.
Yep. That's the scene that stuck with me also.
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How about this great story from BATMAN 217 (Story by Frank Robbins, art by Irv Novick and Dick Giordano. Cover below by Neal Adams)  This is the story where Dick Grayson finally graduates high school and goes to college. It only took the kid 30 years to graduate high school ! It was reprinted recently in the BATMAN IN THE 60'S trade. BATMAN 217 (Jan 1970) and DETECTIVE 395 (December 1969) were the official end of the "camp" Batman, and the official beginning of the return to the creature-of-the-night Batman. So dumping Robin was something of a necessity.
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I don't know if I called that issue a "WTF". More of a "AFT" (about fuckin time)
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Someone brought this up on the 'favorite cover' thread and this is definitely one of the biggest WTF's in Marvel history: The 9/11 tribute issue of Spider-man that had Dr. Doom crying over the victims of September 11. Sorry, people...uh...uh...no goddam way. When it comes to terrorism and murder, including his own subjects, bin Laden is a piker comparied to Victor Von Doom. If anything, Doom's reaction to Sept 11 would have been along these lines: Quote:
Bah...the nation of dogs that houses the accursed Richards shows its weakness...that they could not defend against even a lesser villain as bin Laden is nothing to Doom.
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Nah, I never saw Doom like that. He's evil, but he does have some code of honor. He always struck me as the type that would try to limit civilian casualties. The WTF there was MAGNETO standing there crying. Um... no way. Bullshit. He's the mutant Osama.
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Actually, the way you feel about Doom is the way I feel about Magneto(and the way he's been written most of the time, in my opinion). He's one of the more sympathetic villains. Ultimate Magneto, however, is a different story. He's the mutant Osama.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
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Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
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I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Mysterio supposedly died in kevin Smith's Daredevil, but for month's after he was in that free anti-drug comic in all the Marvel books..and then i think he immediately appeared in a Spider-man title......Talk about crushing a pretty good story and death...hah..
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Quote:
King Snarf said:
Nah, I never saw Doom like that. He's evil, but he does have some code of honor. He always struck me as the type that would try to limit civilian casualties.
I agree that Doom would not gratuitously kill someone. However: (a) what you and I would consider "gratuitous," Doom might very well consider "necessary;" (b) Just because Doom is not so inclined himself to engage in bin Laden like behavior doesn't mean he'd give a damn about bin Laden killing 3000 Americans. As Waid pointed out in his recent FF arc, Doom considers America beneath contempt.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Goddess of the Universe 200+ posts
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OP
Goddess of the Universe 200+ posts
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Wow, eight pages and not one flame.  Lots of discussion, but no flaming.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,793 Likes: 3
Doog the MIGHTY 10000+ posts
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Doog the MIGHTY 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,793 Likes: 3 |
FLAME ON! 
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,016 Likes: 31
brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
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brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
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Anyone remember Professor Xavier professing his undying secret/forbidden love for Jean Grey?  From X-MEN issue 3, page 4, panel 6:
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[ XAVIER, in thought baloon: ]
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"Don't worry" ! As though I could help worrying
about the one I love. But I can never tell her! I have no
right! Not while I'm leader of the X-men, and confined to
this wheel chair! Never to be mentioned again !
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Probably not mentioned in part because wasn't Jean, at the time she joined the X-men only a TEENAGER?!!? Geez...Xavier is like the Pete Townsend of the Marvel U. 
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Joined: May 2003
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Doog the MIGHTY 10000+ posts
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Doog the MIGHTY 10000+ posts
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Posts: 10,793 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Dave the Wonder Boy said:
Anyone remember Professor Xavier professing his undying secret/forbidden love for Jean Grey?
Quote:
From X-MEN issue 3, page 4, panel 6:
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[ XAVIER, in thought baloon: ]
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"Don't worry" ! As though I could help worrying about the one I love. But I can never tell her! I have no right! Not while I'm leader of the X-men, and confined to this wheel chair!
Never to be mentioned again !
...until X-men #53, in which Onslaught takes Jean through a little psychic magical mystery tour and Onslaught reveals that scene to Jean. It was made to seem like Onslaughts influence, but this happened years before Onslaught began to manifest.
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Joined: Nov 2000
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[insert non-dated reference here] 10000+ posts
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[insert non-dated reference here] 10000+ posts
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Back in those early days of X-MEN, Jean Grey was lusted after by all of the X-Men, including Professor Xavier. Seems strange to think of it now, but for some reason it apparently didn't seem that weird back then, judging from the letter columns of the time.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
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Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
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I think a big WTF is the Black Racer. No particular storyline, just the character concept. Death is a guy on SKIES.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Joined: Nov 2003
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1000+ posts
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1000+ posts
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Black Racer was Sonny Bono?
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 259
Goddess of the Universe 200+ posts
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OP
Goddess of the Universe 200+ posts
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No, but they've met...  There are several WTFs between the manga and anime versions of Inu-Yasha. Starting with the most recent, the story of the Sage and the human-faced peaches appeared in volume nine of the tpbs, just before Sango's first appearance in the manga. In the anime version, Kagome and Sango ask for three days away from the quest; Kagome for her exams and Sango to fix Hiraikotsu, which was cracked in a previous battle.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25,016 Likes: 31
brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
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brutally Kamphausened 15000+ posts
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King Snarf said:
I think a big WTF is the Black Racer. No particular storyline, just the character concept. Death is a guy on SKIES. I both liked and disliked the Black Racer when Kirby created him, in NEW GODS 3, and his later appearance in NEW GODS 11.   Here's another WTF, as you can see from this enlargement of the cover for NEW GODS 3... http://fullsize.3.GIF...the car putting along in the background, as the Black Racer sweeps into action, is a Model T ! Not exactly a current photo Kirby used to make this photo-collage cover. I like the aspect of the Black Racer (from issue 3, that introduces him) that he is an amalgam of individuals who are quadraplegic, and even virtual vegetables. People who are helpless, powerless, who in contast to previously not even having power to move their own bodies, are given near-omnipotent power by becoming the Black Racer. In Black Racer's later appearance in NEW GODS 11, he has developed into a role similar to a Valkyrie from Norse mythology, or an angel of death, who takes away individuals in combat at the moment of their death. I think the NEW GODS 11 cover was possibly the best of the series, and a terrific story: http://fullsize.11.GIFI just wish Kirby could have continued this series for a few more issues, and brought this battle to its epic conclusion in 1972. Despite the concept of the character and his power being great and coming from the combined consciousness of many helpless people, Black Racer's costume is really goofy, I think. It looks like something assembled from leftover items at a thrift store. The only other Kirby costume that matches Black Racer's in sheer goofiness is that of Flippa-Dippa in Kirby's JIMMY OLSEN issues.
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Joined: May 2003
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
I'm with Snarf.
IMHO, Black Racer was a supremely dopey character.
A parapalegic African American who becomes an angel of death that looks like a roller derby character on skies.
Even as a little kid, he seemed stupid to me.
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