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Pariah said:
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PenWing said:
Pariah, did you ever watch Highlander, the TV series? There were these guys called watchers, and they watched the immortals though history?
Well, the only difference between the watchers and my people, is that we unfortunately had to experience the history.
This isn't good enough PenWing.
Pariah, the crusades were the Christian equivalent of Islamic Jihad. Nothing more, nothing less. It's best you let of it, because history has proven this. Just because the Church won't admit it, that doesn't mean the rest of the world is wrong. It means the Church has too much pride. Something the Church isn't supposed to have at all.
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Pariah said:
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The IRA are Catholic and have been pretty much in the same vein as the Iraqi insurgents.
What the hell does anything have to do with the IRA? They haven't committed any acts of terrorism. And they're not all Christian either--And if they have committed any acts of terrorism, I highly doubt it was over the subject of Christianity.
Of course the IRA is partly to do with religion. They're Irish Catholic. England is not. Half the problems between the Irish and the English are religious. And, yes, the IRA was a major terrorist organization. This is old news.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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PenWing said:
Pariah, the crusades were the Christian equivalent of Islamic Jihad. Nothing more, nothing less. It's best you let of it, because history has proven this. Just because the Church won't admit it, that doesn't mean the rest of the world is wrong. It means the Church has too much pride. Something the Church isn't supposed to have at all.
Where has it been proven that it was a "Jihad"? You haven't given me anything to work with.
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Pariah said:
Of course the IRA is partly to do with religion. They're Irish Catholic. England is not. Half the problems between the Irish and the English are religious. And, yes, the IRA was a major terrorist organization. This is old news.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army
WHOOPS!!
Sorry. I confused "IRA" with "NRA". 
Actually, the main problem between England and Ireland isn't so much about religion as it is about old grudges Ireland has with the Brits regarding past oppression. The real religious friction is between Northern Ireland and Eastern Ireland.
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magicjay said:
Could you elaborate, please?
I shouldn't have to. Needless to say you're a stereotyping generalizing fuckwit in that you proclaim everyone who went to war, from America, as Christian and fighting with Christian intent.
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Pariah said:
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magicjay said:
Could you elaborate, please?
I shouldn't have to. Needless to say you're a stereotyping generalizing fuckwit in that you proclaim everyone who went to war, from America, as Christian and fighting with Christian intent.
Okay, most of the USA soldiers are Xtian. If it makes you feel better call them Americans. The question is which would feel better; having your face burned off by a Muslim 'terrorist' or an American pilot?
What is the difference? Mr. DiamondMaker 
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R3x's context involved the religious intent of Muslim terrorists. You rolled with that by saying that the American forces were Christian, and therefore had religous motives in fighting the war. And that's bullshit.
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Pariah said:
R3x's context involved the religious intent of Muslim terrorists. You rolled with that by saying that the American forces were Christian, and therefore had religous motives in fighting the war. And that's bullshit.
What a pussy! Can't answer the question in a way that leaves your militarism intact? Tell me Pariah, what is the difference between a revolutionary and a terrorist or a freedom fighter? Is it just a matter of who's side your on?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
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PenWing said:
Pariah, the crusades were the Christian equivalent of Islamic Jihad. Nothing more, nothing less. It's best you let of it, because history has proven this. Just because the Church won't admit it, that doesn't mean the rest of the world is wrong. It means the Church has too much pride. Something the Church isn't supposed to have at all.
Where has it been proven that it was a "Jihad"? You haven't given me anything to work with.
In the definition of Jihad:
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"The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48"
Jihad \Ji*had"\, Jehad \Je*had"\, n. [Ar. jih[=a]d.] (Moham.)
A religious war against infidels or Mohammedan heretics;
also, any bitter war or crusade for a principle or belief.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Pariah said:
......What?
Without sacrifice. We would have nothing.
-Tyler Durden
Moctezuma said the same thing....look where it got him. 
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Yes MJ, I'm already aware of how you like to disregard context.
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PenWing said:
In the definition of Jihad:
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"The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48"
Jihad \Ji*had"\, Jehad \Je*had"\, n. [Ar. jih[=a]d.] (Moham.)
A religious war against infidels or Mohammedan heretics;
also, any bitter war or crusade for a principle or belief.
Yeah, I know. This doesn't go under the category of Christian Europe.
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Pariah said:
Yes MJ, I'm already aware of how you like to disregard context.
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PenWing said:
In the definition of Jihad:
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"The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48"
Jihad \Ji*had"\, Jehad \Je*had"\, n. [Ar. jih[=a]d.] (Moham.)
A religious war against infidels or Mohammedan heretics;
also, any bitter war or crusade for a principle or belief.
Yeah, I know. This doesn't go under the category of Christian Europe.
Technically the Nazis were fighting for a principle or belief.
Bush had no real WMD evidence so he was going on faith. On a principle or belief.
Wasn't most of the U.S. settled on the belief that the indians were savage because they weren't Christian? That sounds like your version of a jihad to me.
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[straw] [/grab]
Either your simply trolling or you're incredibly stupid.
I'm aiming for the latter.
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r3x29yz4a said:
Technically the Nazis were fighting for a principle or belief.
There was no religion involved.
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Bush had no real WMD evidence--
On the contrary, he did.
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Wasn't most of the U.S. settled on the belief that the indians were savage because they weren't Christian? That sounds like your version of a jihad to me.
No. The Natives that were more openly slaughtered were hostile tribes. The others were just screwed out of land.
Generally, they were believed to be savages, but people didn't wage war with em' cuz' of that.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-07-13 8:39 AM.
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Pariah said:
R3x's context involved the religious intent of Muslim terrorists. You rolled with that by saying that the American forces were Christian, and therefore had religous motives in fighting the war. And that's bullshit.
"The cause we serve is right, because it is the cause of all mankind. The momentum of freedom in our world is unmistakable--and it is not carried forward by our power alone. We can trust in that greater power who guides the unfolding of the years. And in all that is to come, we can know that His purposes are just and true."
--State of the Union Address, January 20, 2004
"I believe that God wants me to be president."
--According to Richard Land, as quoted in ""Understanding the President and his God"
"This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."
-- George W. Bush, September 16, 2001
Bush is clearly a very religious man. He's referred to the war on terror as a crusade. He makes speeches about god being on our side. Now, being the same god as the Muslims he makes it a religious war.
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Again, you're clutching at straws. If we were to ask Bush directly and specifically, "Is this war about Christians vs. Muslims", do really think he'd answer "yes".
When we went for the Taliban in 2001, the terrorists we were disposing of were very clearly religious in their intentions for hating us. It's their holy war. Not ours. There's nothing to indicate Bush meant otherwise.
We've never deviated from a set path of retaliation after 9/11 (Taliban) or rooting out mass destructive material (Iraq). Bush has never said "God commandeth me to put the smackdown on those Muslims!!"--And especially not in relation to our insertion into the middle-east. That segment from the "State of the Union Address" you quoted didn't have anything to do with the war on terrorism or Iraq, and thus, did not make it holy war.
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I was making the point that Bush is a very religious man. A man who has said he believes God has laid a path for him.
Therefore if his path leads to war with Iraq, God set him on that path.
Try to keep up, Pariah.
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There are too many things wring with that from a Christian POV to be reasonable enough an argument. In which case, you're taking those words way too literally.
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Pariah said:
There are too many things wring with that from a Christian POV to be reasonable enough an argument. In which case, you're taking those words way too literally.
Christian man leads war against "evil" enemies using billions of tax dollars and a trained army.
Christian man excuses deaths in part of a just war.
Muslim man leads war against "evil" enemies using millions of dollars in raised funds and a trained army.
Muslim man excuses deaths in part of a just war.
Obviously if you can accept that not all Christians support Bush or his war, then not all Muslims support fanatic terrorists and their wars.
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r3x29yz4a said:
Christian man leads war against "evil" enemies using billions of tax dollars and a trained army.
Christian man excuses deaths in part of a just war.
Those billions of tax dollars were used against threats. I don't think Bush ever used the wording "evil". And even if he did, he was most definitely referring to Saddam, his collaborators, and the Iraqi insurgents. And as far as just goes: Yes, it was just, but Bush never tried to pass this war off as purely moral justification through Saddam's evil. This war was fought because Saddam was a possible threat. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Obviously if you can accept that not all Christians support Bush or his war, then not all Muslims support fanatic terrorists and their wars.
I never said that "all Muslims support fanatic terrorists and their wars".
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Pariah said:
Those billions of tax dollars were used against threats. I don't think Bush ever used the wording "evil". And even if he did, he was most definitely referring to Saddam, his collaborators, and the Iraqi insurgents. And as far as just goes: Yes, it was just, but Bush never tried to pass this war off as purely moral justification through Saddam's evil. This war was fought because Saddam was a possible threat. Nothing more, nothing less.
but the Muslim terrorists see their cause as attacking nations who in the past have fucked up their homeland, and will probably do it again in the future.
The Iraqi insurgents are defending their home from Occupation.
Also, who are we to judge? With all the attrocities in our country what's to stop some foreign power from calling Bush evil and conquering us to "free" us?
It was up to the Iraqi people to overthrow Saddam, or to live under his rule. That's what freedom is, the right to choose.
And had Bush's daddy not withdrawn his support for the Iraqi uprising in the 90's it would have ended then.
This whole notion that terrorists are supervillains sitting around plotting the end of America because they hate freedom is wrong.
We fuck up them, they blow up us, we invade them. Its got to stop at some point. And it won't stop with explosions and wars, it'll stop when rational and smart leaders strive for peaceful solutions.
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I never said that "all Muslims support fanatic terrorists and their wars".
okay, Pariah. 
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r3x29yz4a said:
This whole notion that terrorists are supervillains sitting around plotting the end of America because they hate freedom is wrong.
We fuck up them, they blow up us, we invade them. Its got to stop at some point. And it won't stop with explosions and wars, it'll stop when rational and smart leaders strive for peaceful solutions.
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Pariah said:
I never said that "all Muslims support fanatic terrorists and their wars".
okay, Pariah.
Incredible, a voice of reason at last! 
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More like ill-educated lunacy. But that caters to you just fine.
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r3x29yz4a said:
but the Muslim terrorists see their cause as attacking nations who in the past have fucked up their homeland, and will probably do it again in the future.
The Iraqi insurgents are defending their home from Occupation.
I see. So essentially your defending murderers. That's great. That's fuckin' great. The insurgents may be "defending their homeland", but the war is over, and they're getting their own people killed. If you don't want to recognize that and just latch ont this ideal of 'Americans are bad, everyone else, no matter who, is good', then you can fuck off.
"In the past", we did nothing to hurt them except respond to their offenses. Other that that, all of their animosity towads us was/is undergrounded and hate-inspired.
Quote:
Also, who are we to judge? With all the attrocities in our country what's to stop some foreign power from calling Bush evil and conquering us to "free" us?
It was up to the Iraqi people to overthrow Saddam, or to live under his rule. That's what freedom is, the right to choose.
And had Bush's daddy not withdrawn his support for the Iraqi uprising in the 90's it would have ended then.
WHAT. ARE. YOU. TALKING. ABOUT????
This wasn't about freeing the Iraqi people. This was about establishing our own security and, as an ulterior, with the rebuilding of Iraq, a gaining of a possible ally in an otherwise hostile middle-east.
You just wanted to get that out of your system didn't ya?
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This whole notion that terrorists are supervillains sitting around plotting the end of America because they hate freedom is wrong.
They're not super-villians? How so? They kill mass amounts of innocents; how long before they they qualify, by your standards, as a villain?
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okay, Pariah.
Exactly. I didn't. Review.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-07-13 7:26 PM.
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Now and then a terrorist actually takes the trouble to explain his motives. London's Daily Telegraph reports on the trial of the man who murdered Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh: Mohammed Bouyeri, a baby-faced 27-year-old with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, broke his vow not to co-operate with the Amsterdam court by admitting shooting and stabbing his victim last November.
"I take complete responsibility for my actions. I acted purely in the name of my religion," he told its three-strong panel of judges.
"I can assure you that one day, should I be set free, I would do the same, exactly the same." . . .
Bouyeri then turned to the victim's mother, Anneke, in the public gallery, and told her he felt nothing for her. Mrs van Gogh watched as he read out from what appeared to be a statement: "I don't feel your pain. I have to admit that I don't have any sympathy for you. I can't feel for you because you're a non-believer." This had nothing to do with Israeli "occupation" of "Palestinian lands," America's "unilateral invasion" of Iraq, "torture" of prisoners at Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib, the widening "income gap," or any of the other litany of complaints that the terror apologists trot out. According to this terrorist, Islamist terrorism arises from religious fanaticism and hatred, plain and simple.
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Pariah said:
More like ill-educated lunacy. But that caters to you just fine.
I know you are, but what am I?
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I see. So essentially your defending murderers. That's great. That's fuckin' great. The insurgents may be "defending their homeland", but the war is over, and they're getting their own people killed. If you don't want to recognize that and just latch ont this ideal of 'Americans are bad, everyone else, no matter who, is good', then you can fuck off.
Had you posted the first part of that paragraph then its clear that wasn't my intention to defend either. I was simply making an analogy between killer-christians and killer-muslims.
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"In the past", we did nothing to hurt them except respond to their offenses. Other that that, all of their animosity towads us was/is undergrounded and hate-inspired.
No. We actually started things by going over there and imposing our will and our money.
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WHAT. ARE. YOU. TALKING. ABOUT????
This wasn't about freeing the Iraqi people. This was about establishing our own security and, as an ulterior, with the rebuilding of Iraq, a gaining of a possible ally in an otherwise hostile middle-east.
You just wanted to get that out of your system didn't ya?
see my above point.
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They're not super-villians? How so?
they're not plotting global dominition (But Bush is  ), they're not robbing banks. They have motives beyond just being evil.
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They kill mass amounts of innocents; how long before they they qualify, by your standards, as a villain?
actually that sounds like a politician.
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Exactly. I didn't. Review.
okay, Pariah
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Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You've already been proven wrong and your stupidity has been thoroughly demonstrated. But you still cling to the hope that by having a last word, no matter how moronic and irrelevent it may be, you'll be percieved by others as winning the argument. Good show.
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Pariah said:
Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You've already been proven wrong and your stupidity has been thoroughly demonstrated. But you still cling to the hope that by having a last word, no matter how moronic and irrelevent it may be, you'll be percieved by others as winning the argument. Good show.
Pariah has declared victory and withdrawn from the field of battle. Alert the media!
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It's not my fault you're a lunatic.
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Pariah said:
It's not my fault you're a lunatic.
I'm a lunatic, r3x29yz4a's a moron and we're both idiots! Thank you for keeping us informed, Pariah.
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It now appears that the terrorists behind last week's London attacks were British citizens of Pakistani descent, rather than foreign nationals.
As the BBC notes, this development has a number of far reaching implications:
So why does it make so much difference that the bombers are, as now suspected, British?
In the hours after the bombings, Muslim leaders in the UK, joined by other faith leaders, senior police chiefs and ministers, launched an action plan long prepared for such an attack on British soil.
That plan focuses on keeping communities together by very publicly and loudly saying all that can be said to differentiate between British Muslims and those who would seek to use a faith to justify atrocities.
But the revelation that the four London suspects were British will confirm the worst fears of many Muslim leaders. . . .
If the apparent British suicide bombers are of similar stock--young British-born men who are not driven by desperation, then British society's ability to deal with this may be severely tested.
In addition, if the British terrorists are "young British-born men who are not driven by desperation," then it seem to appear that their sole motivation is their religion, not any of the "economic" or "geographic" factors that many claim motivates the terrorists.
Last edited by the G-man; 2005-07-13 8:46 PM.
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The Religion of Peace celebrates Ramadan in Somalia by destroying a movie studio.
MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — Dozens of gunmen loyal to Islamic courts stormed a video studio in Somalia’s capital on Monday, destroying equipment and confiscating hundreds of tapes that were being translated into the Somali language.
The courts consider watching movies, listening to music, dancing and many other forms of entertainment un-Islamic.
“We are very proud that we closed down the biggest movie translating firm,” said Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, chairman of the Union of the Islamic Courts. “What’s considered as harmful to the public will be destroyed.”
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Exactly what I'm talking about. I suppose, G-man, that we're supposed to believe that these dozens of gunmen are representative of the entire religion, as per your heading.
With titles like that, no wonder you accuse the media of being liberal.
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Wednesday said:
Exactly what I'm talking about. I suppose, G-man, that we're supposed to believe that these dozens of gunmen are representative of the entire religion, as per your heading.
With titles like that, no wonder you accuse the media of being liberal.
What's lacking is a vocal opposition for actions like this from the Muslim community at large. When polls are taken they often show thatt a MAJORITY of Muslims are at the very least sypathetic to these kinds of attacks.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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I think they're scared of the repercussions of opposing the radical minority. What's needed is some active opposition to the most visible members (capping clerics?) to show the moderate majority out there they don't have to let the wackos do the talking.
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In a new survey by a Turkish university, almost 40% said a woman who commits adultery deserves to be murdered. A survey by a university in Turkey has shown almost 40% support for the practice of “honour killing”.
The results come days after a court in Istanbul gave a life sentence for the murder of a girl by her brothers for giving birth to a child out of wedlock.
Turkish law, which used to be lenient on “honour crimes”, was heavily revised as part of the country’s preparation for EU accession proceedings.
Turkey has started talks with the EU but is not expected to join for years.
The survey questioned 430 people, most of them men. When asked the appropriate punishment for a woman who has committed adultery, 37% replied she should be killed.
Twenty-five percent said that she deserved divorce, and 21% that her nose or ears should be cut off.
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Boston Globe: We do Muslims no favors by excusing attitudes or practices that ought always to be deemed inexcusable. In Australia's Victoria state, the Herald Sun reported recently, police have been issued a "religious diversity handbook" that advises them "to treat Muslim domestic violence cases differently out of respect for Islamic traditions and habits."
Sikhs, for example, "should not be disturbed" when reading their holy scriptures, a practice that normally takes 50 hours. Photographing Aborigines is discouraged, since it might raise fears of "sorcery and spiritual mischief." And Muslim wife-beaters should be treated with kid gloves, in deference to Islamic norms. "In incidents such as domestic violence," the handbook instructs, "police need to have an understanding of the traditions, ways of life, and habits of Muslims."
Could anything more perfectly capture the moral bankruptcy of multicultural relativism? The Koran may tolerate wife-beating (Sura 4:34: "As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to bed apart and beat them"), but why on earth should Australia?
"All Muslim husbands are not wife-beaters," remarks Robert Spencer, a scholar of Islam, "and it is condescending and irresponsible . . . to give those who are a free pass, instead of denouncing the practice unequivocally and calling upon Muslim men to heed the better angels of their nature." ....[H]e says, the West's unwillingness to "confront the elements of Islam that jihad terrorists use to justify violence, for fear of offending moderate Muslims," ends up undercutting the ability of those very moderates to demand reform from within.
The war against radical Islam is above all a war of values -- the values of liberty, equality, and human dignity against the values of jihad. The jihadis don't hesitate to proclaim their values. We must not be shy about defending ours.
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Two Pakistan Churches Burned by MuslimsPakistan — Hundreds of Muslims attacked and burned two churches in Pakistan on Saturday after reports that a Christian man had desecrated Islam's holy book. No one was injured in the blazes.
A school, student hostel and the home of a priest were also torched by the crowd of about 1,500 Muslims near the town of Sangla Hill, about 80 miles northeast of Lahore, said police official Ali Asghar Dogar.
The attacks were being investigated. About two dozen people had been arrested, Dogar said.
The fires came a day after a local Muslim resident accused a Christian of burning a one-room Islamic school along with copies of the Quran. Dogar said the allegations were apparently leveled by people who lost money while gambling with the Christian man on Friday, but police had detained him and were investigating.
Shahbaz Bhatti, head of the All Pakistan Minorities Alliance — which promotes the rights of minorities in mainly Muslim Pakistan, denied the charges and condemned the attacks on the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches.
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1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
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All this isn't about Muslims hating freedom, its about Muslims and Christians hating each other.
Why don't the members of both religions go off into the mountains and box each other and leave the secular world/religions that aren't insanely violent out of it.
Bow ties are coool.
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Where are Christians rioting against Muslims?
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Joined: May 2005
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1500+ posts
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Where are Christians rioting against Muslims?
Baghdad, Fallujah, etc.....
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Joined: May 2003
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Where are Christians rioting against Muslims?
Christians are running things in these countries and don't need to riot, they just egg them on.
Look at this story (that I think you posted) about the school where Muslims asked for their religious holidays too and their was a big backlash. Why can't they have their holidays counted if Easter and Christmas are.
Lets be honest here, the Jews are the only one of the big three that aren't assholes.
Bow ties are coool.
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