RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Islam: a religion of peace?

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r3x29yz4a said:

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the G-man said:
Somali cleric calls for pope's death

A HARDLINE cleric linked to Somalia's powerful Islamist movement has called for Muslims to "hunt down" and kill Pope Benedict XVI for his controversial comments about Islam.

Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin urged Muslims to find the pontiff and punish him for insulting the Prophet Mohammed and Allah in a speech that he said was as offensive as author Salman Rushdie's novel The Satanic Verses.

"We urge you Muslims wherever you are to hunt down the Pope for his barbaric statements as you have pursued Salman Rushdie, the enemy of Allah who offended our religion," he said in Friday evening prayers.

"Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim," Malin, a prominent cleric in the Somali capital, told worshippers at a mosque in southern Mogadishu.

"We call on all Islamic Communities across the world to take revenge on the baseless critic called the pope," he said.

Reached by telephone on Saturday, Malin confirmed making the remarks that were echoed in less strident form by other senior clerics in the Supreme Islamic Council of Somalia (SICS).

Nun killed after Pope's speech

An elderly Italian nun who devoted her life to helping the sick in Africa was shot dead by two gunmen at a hospital Sunday in an attack possibly linked to worldwide Muslim anger toward Pope Benedict XVI and his recent comments on Islam.

Sister Leonella, 65, was shot in the back four times by pistol-wielding attackers as she left the Austrian-run S.O.S. hospital. Her bodyguard was also slain.

There was no claim of responsibility for the attack, which came just hours after a leading Somali cleric condemned the pope's remarks last week on Islam and violence.

Pope's apology fails to placate Muslims as violence goes on

Two churches in the West Bank were set on fire, following five incidents in the West Bank and Gaza on Saturday, when five churches were firebombed and fired at.

In some quarters, there were signs the Pope's remarks in Castelgandolfo were enough to draw a line under the affair. The second most senior leader of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said he accepted the clarification.

But, elsewhere, firebrand Islamic preachers continued to milk the crisis for all it was worth. In the holy city of Qom, in Iran, a hardline cleric, Ahmad Khatami, told hundreds of demonstrators that the Pope and President Bush were "united in order to repeat the Crusades".

"If the Pope does not apologise, Muslims' anger will continue until he becomes remorseful," he went on. "He should go to clerics and sit and learn about Islam."

Protests were also reported in India and Turkey.

Canada Free Press

In response to the Pope's suggestion that Islam might not be a peaceful religion, as if that's a news flash, Muslims murder an elderly Italian nun at the Children's Hospital in Somalia by shooting her in the back three times. They attack Christians and their churches, burn American flags and western leaders in effigy, all to prove just how peaceful and civilized they really are.

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its tragic that these few crazy radicals are able to damage the entire religion's reputation.

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Yeah, because there's such a small minority of Muslims who believe in Jihad, suicide bombings, and murder in the name of Islam.

I'm not saying there aren't some peaceful Muslims out there. But watching the daily killings on the news, in pretty much every country Muslims immigrate to, from the Phillipines to Indonesia to Afghanistan to Chechnya to Iraq to Sudan to Algeria to France to Denmark to the Netherlands to Pakistan, etc., it's pretty clear to me that there there isn't much "peaceful Islam" to misrepresent.

Islam, at its root, is violent. The deviation is peaceful Islam.

Muslim terrorists proved Pope Benedict XVI's point yesterday - vowing to fight Christianity and spill blood until Islam conquers the world.

"You infidels and despots, we will continue our jihad and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks and raise the fluttering banner of monotheism when God's rule is established governing all people and nations," warned an umbrella group of extremists led by al Qaeda in Iraq.

Another Iraqi terrorist group, Ansar al-Sunna, challenged "sleeping Muslims" to prove their manhood by doing something other than "issuing statements or holding demonstrations." It called the pope "the stupid pig . . . prancing with his blasphemies in his house.

"Let him wait for the day coming soon when the armies of the religion of right knock on the walls of Rome," the group said in a Web statement.

In London, Anjem Choudary, a militant Muslim lawyer, said during a protest outside Westminster Cathedral that those who insulted Islam should be killed.

In Iraq's southern city of Basra, up to 150 demonstrators chanted slogans and burned a white effigy of the pope.

In Egypt, a parliamentary committee called for the expulsion of the Vatican envoy if the pope did not apologize more forcefully.

In Jakarta, Indonesia, more than 100 people rallied in front of the heavily guarded Vatican Embassy waving banners that said the "pope is building religion on hatred."

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Beardguy57 said:
.. the terrorists are like one huge dysfunctional family... they can't even see how hypocritical and flawed their logic is.

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A leading opera house canceled a 3-year-old production of Mozart's "Idomeneo" that included a scene showing the severed head of the Prophet Muhammad, unleashing a furious debate over free speech.

In a statement late Monday, the Deutsche Oper said it decided "with great regret" to cancel the production after Berlin security officials warned of an "incalculable risk" because of the scene.

After its premiere in 2003, the production by Hans Neuenfels drew widespread criticism over the scene in which King Idomeneo presents the severed heads not only of the Greek god of the sea, Poseidon, but also of Muhammad, Jesus and Buddha. The disputed scene is not part of Mozart's original staging of the 225-year-old opera, but was an addition of Neuenfels' production, which was last performed by the company in March 2004.

"We know the consequences of the conflict over the (Muhammad) caricatures," Deutsche Oper said its statement announcing the decision. "We believe that needs to be taken very seriously and hope for your support."

On Tuesday, Deutsche Oper director Kirsten Harms said security officials had recommended, but not ordered, that she either cut the scene or pull the entire production from the 2006-2007 lineup.

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Ariel AKA Warp said:
muslims have decided to kill until they take over the world. isn't that how christianity 'took over' the world? (the quotes are because christianity isn't the religion with the largest following) The crusades come to mind

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r3x29yz4a said:
Muslims as a whole don't want to conquer the world.

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Jihad doesn't mean "holy war," its a very varied phrase with many meanings.

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Jesus was not a white man with an english face and blue eyes. Jesus was a Jew.

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Muslims and Jews actually believe in Jesus, just not his divinity.

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r3x29yz4a said:
Muslims as a whole don't want to conquer the world.
Jews do not have a secret banking conspiracy, they just happened to own some banks when pissy Russians wrote the Protocols.
Jihad doesn't mean "holy war," its a very varied phrase with many meanings.
Jesus was not a white man with an english face and blue eyes.
Jesus was a Jew.
Muslims and Jews actually believe in Jesus, just not his divinity.
99% of the world just wants to live their lives in peace, its the crazy and powerhungry 1% that fuck it up and manipulate the rest into fighting.
G-man's poolboy doesn't "service" the pool.

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Suspected Islamic militants today shot dead four Buddhists in two separate attacks in Thailand’s mainly Muslim south, where an insurgency has raged for more than two years, police said.

In one attack, two teenagers in Islamic students’ dress and riding a motorcycle, shot and killed three Buddhists in Yala, the capital of a province of the same name.

“The militants exploited the fact that the men were shopping at a grocery store and could not defend themselves, even though they had a gun,” police Colonel Somsak Wannawak said.

Earlier a militant shot dead a Buddhist man in Pattani province while he was riding a bus, police said.

More than 1400 people have died in the conflict in Thailand’s far south since early 2004. The violence has been blamed on Malay separatism, religious extremism and organised crime in the border region.

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the G-man said:
RoP Strikes Again in Thailand

Suspected Islamic militants today shot dead four Buddhists in two separate attacks in Thailand’s mainly Muslim south, where an insurgency has raged for more than two years, police said.

In one attack, two teenagers in Islamic students’ dress and riding a motorcycle, shot and killed three Buddhists in Yala, the capital of a province of the same name.

“The militants exploited the fact that the men were shopping at a grocery store and could not defend themselves, even though they had a gun,” police Colonel Somsak Wannawak said.

Earlier a militant shot dead a Buddhist man in Pattani province while he was riding a bus, police said.

More than 1400 people have died in the conflict in Thailand’s far south since early 2004. The violence has been blamed on Malay separatism, religious extremism and organised crime in the border region.

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Teacher in Hiding After Attack on Islam Stirs Threats

PARIS, Sept. 29 — A French high school philosophy teacher and author who carried out a scathing attack against the Prophet Muhammad and Islam in a newspaper commentary says he has gone into hiding under police protection after receiving a series of death threats, including one disseminated on an online radical Islamist forum.

The teacher, Robert Redeker, 52, wrote in the center-right daily Le Figaro 10 days ago that Muhammad was “a merciless warlord, a looter, a mass-murderer of Jews and a polygamist,” and called the Koran “a book of incredible violence.”

The Redeker case is the latest manifestation in Europe of a mounting ideological battle that pits those who believe Islam and the Prophet Muhammad can be criticized in the name of free speech against those in the Muslim community who believe no criticism can be tolerated.

A recent speech by Pope Benedict XVI that seemed to link Islam and violence caused such an uproar in the Muslim world that the pope issued a rare expression of regret.

The pope expressed regret for the reaction to his remarks after Muslims demonstrated against him around the world. Just this week, a Berlin opera house decided to cancel performances of the Mozart opera “Idomeneo” because of security fears over a scene showing the severed head of the Prophet Muhammad. The decision prompted an outpouring of protest about what was seen as the surrender of artistic freedom.

In his commentary, Mr. Redeker compared Islam unfavorably to Christianity and Judaism, although he admitted that the history of the Catholic Church was “full of dark pages,” and he criticized the hostile reaction to the pope’s remarks.

“Jesus is a master of love; Muhammad is a master of hatred,” Mr. Redeker wrote, adding, “Whereas Judaism and Christianity are religions whose rites forsake violence and remove its legitimacy, Islam is a religion that, in its very sacred text, as much as in some of its everyday rites, exalts violence and hatred. Hatred and violence dwell in the very book that educates any Muslim, the Koran.”

Immediately afterward, Mr. Redeker, who teaches in a public high school near Toulouse and is the author of several books on philosophy, began to receive death threats by telephone, e-mail and through the online Islamist Web site known as Al Hesbah, a password-protected forum with ties to Al Qaeda. The forum published photos of him and what it said was his home address, directions to his home and his cellphone number, according to the SITE Institute, which tracks violent Islamist groups.

That day’s issue of Le Figaro was banned in Egypt and Tunisia. Mr. Redeker was denounced by a commentator on Al Jazeera television.

“I can’t work, I can’t come and go and am obliged to hide,” Mr. Redeker told Europe 1 radio in a telephone interview from an undisclosed location on Friday. “So in some way, the Islamists have succeeded in punishing me on the territory of the republic as if I were guilty of a crime of opinion.”

Mr. Redeker, who has kept in contact with news agencies by cellphone and e-mail, said that his wife and their children had also been threatened with death. He told Europe 1 that his wife was in hiding with him, but he was less clear about his three children, saying that one of them had been forced to move and that another was in a boarding school.

Asked to describe the sort of threats he had received, Mr. Redeker replied, “You will never feel secure on this earth. One billion, three hundred thousand Muslims are ready to kill you.”

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin on Friday called the threats “unacceptable,” adding: “We are in a democracy. Everyone has the right to express his views freely, while respecting others, of course.”

The Interior Ministry has confirmed that Mr. Redeker is under police surveillance, and that counterterrorism experts have begun a preliminary investigation into the threats, which the ministry has described as “dangerous.” Mr. Redeker complained in the radio interview that he had to arrange his own logistics and “find a place to sleep at night or live for a day or two.”

One of the threats came from a contributor to Al Hesbah, who wrote, “It is impossible that this day pass without the lions of France punishing him.”

The contributor called on his Muslim brethren in France to follow the lead of Muhammad Bouyeri, who murdered the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh after he made a film denouncing the plight of abused Muslim women.

“May God send some lion to cut his head,” the contributor said of Mr. Redeker, whom he described as a “pig.”

Mr. Redeker’s situation echoes that of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born Dutch politician who collaborated with Mr. van Gogh on the film and has been relentless in her criticism of some Islamic practices. The subject of numerous death threats from radical Islamists, she was put under the protection of bodyguards in the Netherlands in 2002, and currently has security protection in Washington, where she recently became a fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute.

In the Figaro commentary, Mr. Redeker wrote, “Islam tries to dictate its rules to Europe: opening swimming pools at certain hours exclusively for women, forbidding the caricature of this religion, demanding a special diet for Muslim children in school cafeterias, fighting for wearing the veil in school, accusing free thinkers of Islamophobia.”

Mr. Redeker, who has written against Islam in the past, does not shy from controversy. At the time of the American-led invasion of Iraq, he criticized French pacifists, and he has written extensively about how watching sports competitions is worse than opium. His new book, “Depression and Philosophy,” is about to be published.

At first, Mr. Redeker did not speak out about the threats. In an e-mail message to The New York Times last Tuesday, he said it was not the right time to talk about his plight.

Then, in an interview with the local Toulouse newspaper, La Dépêche du Midi, published Thursday, Mr. Redeker described the death threats, adding, “What is happening to me corresponds fully to what I denounce in my writing: the West is under ideological surveillance by Islam.”

That interview set off a public defense of Mr. Redeker in the name of free speech and condemnations of those who threaten him, which snowballed Friday after his radio interview with Jean-Pierre Elkabbach, the president of Europe 1, who is the host of a popular interview show.

Philippe de Villiers, a far-right politician, wrote President Jacques Chirac a letter on Friday asking that Mr. Redeker be given “shelter — as a symbol — at the Élysée Palace, which is the palace of the republic, rather than let him wander,” according to Agence France-Presse.

Le Figaro, in an unusual front-page open letter on Friday signed by the editor and the publisher, said, “We condemn with the greatest conviction the grave attacks on freedom of thought and freedom of expression which this affair has provoked.”

On Thursday, Education Minister Gilles de Robien was less forceful. He expressed “solidarity” with Mr. Redeker, but cautioned that a “state employee must show prudence and moderation in all circumstances.”

But two large teachers’ unions in separate statements on Friday threw their support behind Mr. Redeker’s right to speak freely, though one of them made clear, “We do not share his convictions.”

Mr. Redeker said that he had no second thoughts about what he wrote. “No regrets,” he said in the radio interview. “I have given a lot of thought in writing this text.”

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Around one in 10 Indonesian Muslims support jihad and justify bomb attacks on Indonesia’s tourist island of Bali as defending the faith, a survey released on Sunday showed.

Indonesia is the world’s fourth most populous country, with 220 million people, 85 percent of whom follow Islam, giving the Asian archipelago the largest Muslim population of any nation in the world.

“Jihad that has been understood partially and practiced with violence is justified by around one in 10 Indonesian Muslims,” the Indonesian Survey Institute said in a statement.

“They approved the bombings conducted ... in Bali with the excuse of defending Islam,” it added, saying the percentage of such support “is very significant.”

To live peacefully with Muslims and Jews, Christians must put aside the notion that their faith requires the creation of a Christian kingdom on Earth, a Lipscomb University theologian told an interfaith gathering at the university.

“We are not going to get very far in our relationship with Jews or Muslims if we do not let go of this idea,” Lipscomb professor Lee Camp said at Tuesday’s conference.

The unusual gathering of several dozen clergy and lay people was devoted to resolving religious conflict in Nashville and around the world.

“We need to forsake the Christendom model,” Camp said. “The most basic Christian commitment ... is that we say we believe in the Lordship of Jesus. But, if we claim that, how can a Muslim or Jew trust us, if we say Jesus is the Lord of all Lords?”

“Every religion has different teachings,” he said. “For Muslims, it’s: Do you believe in one God and that Muhammad is his prophet? I don’t think we can teach individuals that the way you go to heaven in other religions is OK.”

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the G-man said:
Lipscomb University theologian Lee Camp told an interfaith gathering yesterday that in order to live peacefully with Muslims, Christians are going to have to give up the idea that there’s anything special about Jesus:

To live peacefully with Muslims and Jews, Christians must put aside the notion that their faith requires the creation of a Christian kingdom on Earth, a Lipscomb University theologian told an interfaith gathering at the university.

“We are not going to get very far in our relationship with Jews or Muslims if we do not let go of this idea,” Lipscomb professor Lee Camp said at Tuesday’s conference.

The unusual gathering of several dozen clergy and lay people was devoted to resolving religious conflict in Nashville and around the world.

“We need to forsake the Christendom model,” Camp said. “The most basic Christian commitment ... is that we say we believe in the Lordship of Jesus. But, if we claim that, how can a Muslim or Jew trust us, if we say Jesus is the Lord of all Lords?”

That’s very noble. Professor Camp (whom, I'm sure, is not a liberal, nope) is willing to give up core Christian beliefs in order to have a world of peace, love, and fluffy bunnies.

So what did the Islamic spokesman think of this?

“Every religion has different teachings,” he said. “For Muslims, it’s: Do you believe in one God and that Muhammad is his prophet? I don’t think we can teach individuals that the way you go to heaven in other religions is OK.”

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Islam is a religion of peace, which prefers to live with all communities in an atmosphere of mutual respect and true understanding. However, Islam does not shrink from fighting a war imposed on it by its enemies.

Abdullah ibn Khatal used to be a Muslim. The Prophet once sent him to collect zakah from people who lived far away. He traveled with another man and a servant of his who was a Muslim. At one stage on the way they stopped. He gave the servant orders to slaughter a big goat and prepare food for him while he himself went to sleep. When he woke up, he discovered that the servant had not done anything. He killed his servant and, fearing the Prophet’s punishment, reverted to idolatry. He also had two slave girls who used to sing for him and for his companions songs full of abuse of the Prophet. The Prophet’s instructions specified that the two slave girls should also be killed. The man was killed as he was actually holding on to the coverings of the Kaaba. Abu Barzah Al-Aslami and Saeed ibn Hurayth Al-Makhzumi killed him along with one of his slave girls. The other managed to flee until someone sought a special pardon for her from the Prophet, which he granted.

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Brad Lee said:
Just so everyone knows, Jews believe anyone who lives their life as a good person, Jewish or not, can go to whatever "heaven" is. You can believe in Jesus, you can believe in Muhammud, you just need to be good and you've got a shot. The righteous get rewarded no matter who they are.

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Wonder Boy said:
Western civilizations have a right to defend themselves from the murderous barbarians massing at the gate.

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But as many of us are to some degree descended from either the Britons or the Germanic tribes that pwn3d Rome, doesn't that mean that once upon a time we were the barbarians massing at the gate?

Technically, we're all barbarians except for Peejus and reax. If you wanna go on the original definition of the word and such.

But I still agree that a nuclear fireball would be a helluva way to resolve the Middle East conundrum. Fucked up on innumerable levels, but rather pretty to watch from a v-e-r-y long ways away!

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Captain Sammitch said:

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Wonder Boy said:
Western civilizations have a right to defend themselves from the murderous barbarians massing at the gate.

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But as many of us are to some degree descended from either the Britons or the Germanic tribes that pwn3d Rome, doesn't that mean that once upon a time we were the barbarians massing at the gate?

Technically, we're all barbarians except for Peejus and reax. If you wanna go on the original definition of the word and such.

But I still agree that a nuclear fireball would be a helluva way to resolve the Middle East conundrum. Fucked up on innumerable levels, but rather pretty to watch from a v-e-r-y long ways away!

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Pig Iron said:
In what way? Enslavement? Persecution? The jews weren't perfect, but they were oppressed a bunch.

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Matter-eater Man said:
That isn't much different then some parts of the old testament though.

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Matter-eater Man said:

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Pig Iron said:
In what way? Enslavement? Persecution? The jews weren't perfect, but they were oppressed a bunch.

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I was thinking about the times God did stuff like the great flood or Soddam & Gomorah in reference to G-man's post about the slave girls being sentenced to death for no good reason.

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the G-man said:

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Matter-eater Man said:
That isn't much different then some parts of the old testament though.

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Okay.... but what modern Jewish scholar or publication is saying they should continue to treat women in exactly the same way they were treated 5000 years ago?

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Captain Sammitch said:

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Matter-eater Man said:

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Pig Iron said:
In what way? Enslavement? Persecution? The jews weren't perfect, but they were oppressed a bunch.

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I was thinking about the times God did stuff like the great flood or Soddam & Gomorah in reference to G-man's post about the slave girls being sentenced to death for no good reason.

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Notice that God did those things Himself. It's not like anyone was about to go up to Him and say, "y'know, are you sure we shouldn't give those guys another chance?" Big difference between divine wrath and "the" "prophet" not being able to take a little criticism.

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Matter-eater Man said:
I didn't see where the guy was saying that women should be treated exactly like they were 5000 years ago.

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Matter-eater Man said:
I was thinking about the times God did stuff like the great flood or Soddam & Gomorah in reference to G-man's post about the slave girls being sentenced to death for no good reason.

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Matter-eater Man said:
Actually Lott did try to get God to spare the doomed. If I remember correctly Lott keeps bargaining up as to how many would be spared.

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22  ¶ And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

23  And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

24  Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

25  That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked; and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

26  And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

27  And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:

28  Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.

29  And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.

30  And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.

31  And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.

32  And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

33  And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

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Matter-eater Man said:
"Bargaining" was a poor choice on my part. I do think that part of Genesis does show Abraham trying to get those towns spared in his conversation with God.

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