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Having not yet fully developed their own nuclear capabilities, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad seems intent on testing the capabilities of Israel's nuclear warheads... on the Iranian population:
"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism."The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said. "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.
Are Syrian and Iranian leaders in some sort of a contest to see who gets deposed next?
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Maybe. 
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I wonder how long it'll take for Israel to turn Iran into a glass menagerie...
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Only slightly more time than it'll take for the U.N. to condemn Israel for picking a fight with poor wittle Iran.
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In my political opinion...
Fuck Iran.
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this is why i didn't vote in the last Iranian election.
Bow ties are coool.
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I really hope Iran is just being it's usual dumbass self. I don't like war. I don't like killing. But in their case, I'll make an exception if they really want it.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
PenWing said:
I really hope Iran is just being it's usual dumbass self. I don't like war. I don't like killing. But in their case, I'll make an exception if they really want it.
if a country being an asshole to another country were justification for a war then there's going to be a long line to attack america.
Last edited by the G-man; 2005-10-28 8:35 PM.
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Calling for the complete destruction of another country and developing the means to do it are about as close to a declaration of war as one can get.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Calling for the complete destruction of another country and developing the means to do it are about as close to a declaration of war as one can get.
i don't see why ANY country has any nukes. Its long been known that its not a practical weapon to use. Sure you get the short term benefits in combat but the longterm fallout and the risk of nuclear winter from a nuclear war make it a pointless thing to have.
Last edited by the G-man; 2005-10-29 12:04 PM.
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Unfortunately, that particular genie is out of the bottle.
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but we don't have to make it worse by building new bombs and having atomic facilities for these people to steal the information from anyway.
Last edited by the G-man; 2005-10-28 8:33 PM.
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I suppose we could leave that to the six or seven other [known] nations who are doing that. 
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
I suppose we could leave that to the six or seven other [known] nations who are doing that.
it doesn't matter if they have them and we stop making them. because no government in the world would start a nuclear war. it would be suicide.
just three nuclear missiles is enough to retaliate. and its common knowledge that any nuclear fight would bring nuclear winter.
the only people who would be willing to use nukes would be terrorists and we couldn't use our nukes to strike back at them if they did use them.
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The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.
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R3X , you are dumb..we now (the us) have to build emp weapons, satellite weapons, etc..if we are to simply defend ourselves. Yes, nukes don't cut it anymore so we need an even better armory. The world cannot get along and we need a man ( or woman ) with balls to lead this nation. terrorists are bullshit. terrorists can't exist without countries sponsoring them and letting them exist. So we as a collective world need to take a hardline and say (fuck you mr terrorist) and nuke or bomb or fry anyone that lets off a nuke or any other wmd.
Now, I don't believ that many wmds exist in nuclear terms outside of the g-12 but the un needs to get off it's ass and take a hard line against...Iran, syria, N korea, etc....
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.
we know all the countries that have nuclear capability. would it be so hard to discuss an across the board disposal of the bulk of the world's weapons?
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Quote:
Pig Iron said:
R3X , you are dumb..we now (the us) have to build emp weapons, satellite weapons, etc..if we are to simply defend ourselves.
i'm dumb for wanting a reduction in nuclear weapons?
Quote:
Yes, nukes don't cut it anymore so we need an even better armory. The world cannot get along and we need a man ( or woman ) with balls to lead this nation. terrorists are bullshit. terrorists can't exist without countries sponsoring them and letting them exist.
but the bigger issue is that terrorists can't exist without people willing to volunteer for their causes. if we had a smarter foreign policy back in the 1950's through today we wouldn't be seeing these terrorist groups at all.
Quote:
So we as a collective world need to take a hardline and say (fuck you mr terrorist) and nuke or bomb or fry anyone that lets off a nuke or any other wmd.
that's the thing. if russia launches a nuke at us we have a target to retaliate. but we can't reasonably retaliate with nuclear arms against a terrorist cell living in a cave.
Quote:
Now, I don't believ that many wmds exist in nuclear terms outside of the g-12 but the un needs to get off it's ass and take a hard line against...Iran, syria, N korea, etc....
I think Lybia (and the negotiations that started under Clinton are a good example. if you bomb a country into submission all you do is stall their aggression, but if you negotiate a bloodless peace then your create an actual peace.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Unfortunately, that particular genie is out of the bottle.
That is true!
Which leads me to a personal opinion.
I don't like Israel, I've never had and I probably never will. This has nothing to do with anti-semitism or whatever. I simply do not agree that it was the right thing to give the israeli that land.
But, the fact of the matter is, Israel is there! And we are allied with it.
And the statements from the Iranian president is, as G-man said, as close to a declaration of war as you can come, without actually declaring war.
I sincerely hope that war won't be the outcome. I sincerely hope that the UN will listen to Israel for once and kick Iran out.
And if war does become neccessary, then Fuck Iran and let's grind them into dust!
 Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.
we know all the countries that have nuclear capability. would it be so hard to discuss an across the board disposal of the bulk of the world's weapons?
Yes it would. It's ludicrous, like I've been saying. It's not gonna happen. Because nobody trusts anybody. Who's gonna enforce something like that? The UN? We've already seen how good they are at stuff like that. 
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.
we know all the countries that have nuclear capability. would it be so hard to discuss an across the board disposal of the bulk of the world's weapons?
Yes it would. It's ludicrous, like I've been saying. It's not gonna happen. Because nobody trusts anybody. Who's gonna enforce something like that? The UN? We've already seen how good they are at stuff like that.
so your stance on international relations is not to try and build trust between countries but to just give up?
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It is a good thing to want to reduce or eliminate nuclear stockpiles, but simply not realistic. No incentive is big enough to entice a country to cede control of its national security by handing over what remains history's most effective military deterent.
So in other words--G-Man is right.
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Quote:
theory9 said:
It is a good thing to want to reduce or eliminate nuclear stockpiles, but simply not realistic. No incentive is big enough to entice a country to cede control of its national security by handing over what remains history's most effective military deterent.
So in other words--G-Man is right.
yes, because there hasn't been a single war or military action since WWII.
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While you play the wish fulfillment game, I'll stay as close as I can to the real world. The wars that have followed WWII, with the obvious exception of Vietnam, have been quite limited in scope and deaths.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
The power of nuclear weapons is principally a psychological power, no matter how devastating they may be. The simple fact is that nobody will voluntarily get rid of their nuclear weapons because they don't want to be the only ones to do so. It's the fear of mutual annihilation that makes nuclear weaponry so effective. That said, it would be ludicrous to get rid of our nuclear weapons expecting everyone else to see reason and do the same.
we know all the countries that have nuclear capability. would it be so hard to discuss an across the board disposal of the bulk of the world's weapons?
Yes it would. It's ludicrous, like I've been saying. It's not gonna happen. Because nobody trusts anybody. Who's gonna enforce something like that? The UN? We've already seen how good they are at stuff like that.
so your stance on international relations is not to try and build trust between countries but to just give up?
Maybe you're still reeling from the whole Rosa debacle, Ray. But I don't think you're being practical here. You want us to make the world safer by removing our strongest deterrent to enemy action? You can discuss arms reduction all you want, and you'll even get little victories here and there. But in the long run, prudence dictates that you maintain as much strength as possible, simply because in the real world, unilateral armament is much more of a likelihood than unilateral disarmament.
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If you want to build trust between nations, try doing it on something that'll actually be profitable to them, like exchanging improved trade relations for improved human-rights conditions.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
If you want to build trust between nations, try doing it on something that'll actually be profitable to them, like exchanging improved trade relations for improved human-rights conditions.
*cough*North Korea, r3x*cough*
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This is nothing particularly new from that side of the Persian Gulf. Only the face is new. Saddam Hussein, people might remember, had an army of volunteers ready to invade and crush Israel, and maintained the only reason this didn't happen was because Jordan would not open its borders. Duyring that big earthquake a few years ago, Iran said it would accept help from any country, including the United States, but not Israel. I agree that its an effective declaration of war. That doesn't mean Israel has to do anything about it - it already reserves the right to take preemptive strikes against Iranian missile delivery systems, nuclear weapons facilities and other strategic targets. Quote:
but the un needs to get off it's ass and take a hard line against...Iran, syria, N korea, etc....
This is, with respect, silly. What can the UN do? Its obliged to do what the Security Council says. Do you mean instead that the Security Council should get off its arse and do something?
I think there is something to the Israeli proposition that Iran be ejected from the UN. One of the purposes of the UN is promotion of world peace (between sovereign states). Iran's statement makes it clear that it is not interested in that, in so far as Israel is concerned.
Chant, I disagree with your view that Jews had no right to establish Israel. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve their own state.
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Quote:
theory9 said:
While you play the wish fulfillment game, I'll stay as close as I can to the real world. The wars that have followed WWII, with the obvious exception of Vietnam, have been quite limited in scope and deaths.
Yes, but that isn't a consequence of the UN's actions, more a result of the Cold War.
Incidentally, Vietnam was nothing compared to the 5 nation war in the Congo which recently ended.
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Quote:
theory9 said:
While you play the wish fulfillment game, I'll stay as close as I can to the real world. The wars that have followed WWII, with the obvious exception of Vietnam, have been quite limited in scope and deaths.
You could find many Russian veterans of Afganistan that would disagree with that statement. Does it apply to the Korean War? What about the Cold War?
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Cold War? If you're being very specific, not many deaths, very broad scope. Korea? Vietnam? Very narrow scope, lots of deaths. And the Russians brought Afghanistan on themselves.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Cold War? If you're being very specific, not many deaths, very broad scope. Korea? Vietnam? Very narrow scope, lots of deaths. And the Russians brought Afghanistan on themselves.
The Cold War was fought by proxy on many different fronts, Central America for example. Korea, Vietnam and Afganistan were major skirmishes in the Cold War. The Russia brought Afganustan on itself, as the USA did in Vietnam.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
Chant, I disagree with your view that Jews had no right to establish Israel. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve their own state.
well, if you read my post, I never said that they didn't have the right. I'm not sure if they did or didn't. What I said was that I don't think it was the right thing.
I think that a large part of the tension in the middle east is due to Israel's presence.
But as I said, Israel is there! So it's a moot point
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
Quote:
theory9 said:
While you play the wish fulfillment game, I'll stay as close as I can to the real world. The wars that have followed WWII, with the obvious exception of Vietnam, have been quite limited in scope and deaths.
Yes, but that isn't a consequence of the UN's actions, more a result of the Cold War.
Incidentally, Vietnam was nothing compared to the 5 nation war in the Congo which recently ended.
Dave, you're talking about the darkies over there with no oil...we don't give a toss about them! 
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Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
I think there is something to the Israeli proposition that Iran be ejected from the UN. One of the purposes of the UN is promotion of world peace (between sovereign states). Iran's statement makes it clear that it is not interested in that, in so far as Israel is concerned.
Then Israel should've been booted years ago for bombing Iraq's nuclear reactors.
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Israel's actions were in direct response to a threat.
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Then by that reasoning, Iraq had the right to build the reactors in response to the direct threat of Israel already having nuclear capabilities.
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But Israel doesn't run around threatening to attack their neighbors.
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Iran offered N. Korea oil for weapons helpIran has offered North Korea oil and natural gas as payment for help in developing nuclear missiles, German weekly magazine Der Spiegel reported on Saturday, citing unidentified Western intelligence sources.
A senior Iranian official traveled to the North Korean capital Pyongyang during the second week of October to make the offer, the magazine quoted the sources as saying. It was unclear what North Korea's response was, it added.
Diplomats and intelligence sources say Iran is pushing ahead with plans to enrich uranium in defiance of international pressure to stop developing sensitive nuclear technology to calm fears it is seeking nuclear weapons.
Iran insists its nuclear ambitions are entirely peaceful.
Iran's Shahab-3 missiles are based on North Korea's Nodong rockets and Pyongyang is Tehran's most important partner in developing missile technology
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The leader of the UN’s toothless nuclear watchdog says Iran is only months away from having nuclear bombs. But he also says we need to continue along the same diplomatic path that has led us to this juncture.
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