Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy

I propose that on heartfelt issues, like abortion and gay marriage or border security, where there is polarizing opinion, that the only way to legislate these things fairly is
(1) by popular vote.



If you think ACORN, et al, is capable of stealing elections for public office why do you think they can't do it with referenda? For example, look at the "astroturf" going on in Wisconsin, where the unions and the DNC are trying to organize recall votes.


I never actually gave the Left credit for being able to rig a popular election. Unions are an estimated 7% of the private sector, and obviously much larger percent of the public sector (teachers, civil service, police, firefighters..) but ultimately still a minority of the total population.
I give them credit for using their smaller numbers through organized intimidation tactics (a la ACORN and SEIU) to leverage an advantage over a less vocal and less organized majority.

The thought that they could rig a popular election is scary stuff. With all the federalizing of private sectors of the economy, you may be right that they now are a majority. But I see many of the people in these sectors resisting federal takeover, rather than going along with it.
But you may be right. Unions, SEIU and so forth might be able to rig a popular election now. I may have under-estimated them.


 Originally Posted By: the G-man

 Quote:

...even a legislative vote like this one in New York state is unacceptable, because it no doubt is a political decision maneuvered behind the scenes, and not credibly representative of what the people of that state really want. It was 29 Democrats, who managed to leverage an additional 4 Republican votes, not an overwhelming consensus.


Actually, the polls I've seen show that a majority of New Yorkers support gay marriage. You need to remember that this is a liberal state. Even republicans here are often moderate to liberal.


I acknowledged that N Y is a liberal state, where no doubt many support gay marriage. The N Y Daily news poll you cited says 56% of New York staters support gay marriage.
My point is that still leaves a large minority (44%) who do NOT support gay marriage. And that large minority will not feel represented by this vote.

The NY state gay marriage vote was supported by 29 Democrats and only 4 Republicans.

 Quote:
In the end, 29 of 30 Democrats voted in favor of the bill, and four of 32 Republicans voted yes.


Obamacare was supported by a similarly "bipartisan" (i.e. very small Republican support) majority. Obamacare was leveraged through by people offered political favors for their votes. I question what favors or intimidation were used to leverage votes, both Democrat and Republican, in New York state.