quote:
Originally posted by Wednesday:

The Bible has been translated several times since it was first written. The current Bible is not a verbatim transcription of the original text. But this is besides the point since whether or not homosexuality is "detestable to God" is an separate issue, as Sammitch pointed out.

Legalizing marriage does not force any religion to take any stance or accept anything. Separation of Church and State works both ways.




Wednesday,
After you've spent so much time arguing the legal side of gay marriage, I find it difficult to believe you don't see the legal ramifications of legally recognizing gay rights in American law, and the way it would impose polar contradictions about gays and marriage on Christians.

I've spent extensive time clarifying this in my posts above.
If you choose not to accept or understand the logic of what I'm saying, so be it, but I cannot make it more clear.

~

I guess the only way to clarify is to show you specific Bible verses about Christianity. And demonstrate the clear contradiction these verses present to the concept of gay marriage.

I find it useful to post the origin of marriage as described in the Bible.

quote:
Genesis 2: verses 22-24

22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,

"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, '
for she was taken out of man."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.



( courtesy of:
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=NIV&passage=all )

The standard has been such for 6,000 years or so, and I see no reason to change that standard for marriage, when it has been clearly defined and established for so long.

Gays can live together, if they choose to, but I fail to see why it is necessary to change (or pervert) the meaning of one of the Bible's most sacred institutions.

Marriage is a man and a woman united for life, witnessed with the approval of God.

Two men or two women do not fit that description, and are elsewhere described as a union "detestable" to God.

There is no margin for misunderstanding of what scripture says about marriage or what it says about homosexuality. the two are not compatible, without perversion of their true definitions.

~

Here's a sampling of what the Old Testament and New Testament have to say on the subject of homosexuality.


New Testament condemnation of homosexuality:

ROMANS 1, verses 18-32, in particular verses 26-29.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=ROM+1&language=english&version=NIV
Also:

1 CORINTHIANS 6, verses 9-11
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1COR+6&language=english&version=NIV


And since Jesus also said "I and the Father are one"... ( (JOHN 10, verse 30)
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+10&language=english&version=NIV

...and also JOHN 1, verse 1:

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+1&language=english&version=NIV

...so everything God the Father said in the Old Testament is what Jesus teaches also. The two (God the Father, and Jesus) are different manifestations of the same person.


~


Some (not all) Old Testament verses about homosexuality (i.e., God's condemnation of it):

GENESIS chapter 18, verse 1, through chapter 19, verse 29 (Sodom and Gomorrah)

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=GEN+18&language=english&version=NIV

LEVITICUS 18, verse 22

[ the quote is a commandment by God, to Moses, to be written down as law ]
quote:
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=LEV+18&language=english&version=NIV


LEVITICUS 20, verse 13

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=LEV+20&language=english&version=NIV

~

Jesus teaches that sin is forgiven through faith in Jesus as the Messiah/savior, because Jesus' life is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy.
Forgiven, if they are past sexual acts that do not continue.
But homosexuality is still a sin. As are other types of sexual immorality.

~

Here are some counterpoints I answered on a previous DC topic:

quote:
Question previously asked by a gay poster:

So everything that God decreed in the Old Testament, Jesus upholds in his teachings?

So for instance, in Exodus 35:2 states that anyone working on the Sabbath should be put to death?
So, I assume Jesus would condone the death of anyone working on sundays?

Or, according to Leviticus 11:10 eating shellfish is an abomination. Are those prone to surf and turf at red lobster going to hell on Jesus' watch?? and finally (for now)

Leviticus 11: 6 - 8 tells me that the touch of dead pig skin will make one unclean, does this mean Jesus will condemn all NFL players who are not in the habit of wearing gloves to eternal damnation?

( My response: )

The verse you refer to in LEVITICUS chapter 11, verses 1-46.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=LEV+11&language=english&version=NIV
It refers to Jews keeping a diet that sets them apart from neighboring peoples and religions.
It is a diet commanded to remain ceremonially clean, and at worst renders them ceremonially unclean until evening, if disobeyed.

John the Baptist (MATTHEW 3:4) ate Locust
--a food that clearly is not ceremonially clean-- to show that despite his not comforming to Jewish dietary laws, he was spiritually clean, although not ceremonially clean. And Jesus clearly approved of John the Baptist.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=MATT+3&language=english&version=NIV

The Sabbath (in LEVITICUS 23:3) is likewise ceremony to provide rest and worship, and there is no mention of punishment, and certainly not a death penalty.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=LEV+23&language=english&version=NIV

In contrast to homosexuality, where when practiced widely by a civilization, it is considered, Biblically, the mark of a civilization that has so displeased God, that God has ceased to provide any protection of that culture, and has abandoned it to its own self-destruction.
See again:
quote:
ROMANS 1, verses 18-32:

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.



As you can see, homosexuality is clearly defined Biblically as one of the most corruptive and decadent practices in human culture. I don't see that in any way compatible with the concept of "gay marriage", in a Christian setting.

Gays don't have to believe what I believe.

But they likewise cannot enact laws that infringe on MY beliefs, or my right to reject their lifestyle as something I don't wish to endorse.
Changing the legal definition of marriage does precisely that, and has all kinds of ramifications on Christian beliefs of family, sanctity, employment, and the ability to even teach in church that homosexuality is decadent.
(Which the Bible clearly defines above.)