quote:
Originally posted by klinton:
Can everyone not see the endless circular pattern in this thread? I mean, there is no compramise on this issue, appearantly. As I stated much earlier in this discussion, I wish that people like Dave could step outside thier 'absolute truths' and just live a year in my life. I can't see any other way of getting the point across. For all of your talk of perversion and corruption, all I (and otheres like me) want is to be free of persecution. That's it. You can proclaim how gross and repulsive my life is until the end of the day...but the emptiness I lived with before coming to terms with myself is infinitely more disgusting. No God would ask this of his followers and expect devotion in return. It's just not possible. I know you cannot see this, and like I said, I think people like you would have to experience it to 'get' it.

Dave, sure some of your arguments make sense on paper...they do, I won't argue that. But I know undisputabley that you are wrong on this. I wish I could convey the entire reasoning behind my standpoint, but so much of it took years for me to see myself. I hope that someday, someone very close to you challenges you on this...not to humble you, but to help you see just how cruel your statments really are (and I know, they are not meant to be...I realize the convictions behind your stance. I used to share them myself).

That's really all I have to say. I think I've exausted my views in here, and they've been recieved with nothing more than "well, ok. But your still a sick fuck in my eye's".

And I appologize to everyone who is trying to keep this cilvil by acknowleding 'legitiamate political opinions'. Imagine if someone stood up and declared your relationship as a subject open to dispute and critique, and illegitimate in the eyes of the law. No one in thier right mind would stand for that, and yet somehow it is acceptable for me to have to? I hate the fact that day in and day out, the little things that most folks can take for granted are a bloody statement on my part. I am defined by the fact that I am gay, and everything else has to come second.
Klinton, I know it's difficult for you, I don't think you're sick. But at the same time I can't pretend to endorse your belief-system.

I don't think your a "sick f---", I don't have the moral purity to make that judgement. I'm only saying, "This is the Biblical standard."
You're not "sick". You're a human being, with a set of personal temptations that are different than what tempts me. Not better or worse. Different. We're all equally sinful, and equally loved in the eyes of God.

And as I've said, I also struggle with the premarital/extramarital issue as a heterosexual. And I don't pretend God endorses it if I violate that standard. THAT is my major point of conflict with the gay movement, and the "inborn" mindset of homosexuality it teaches.

I've thought about you a lot in the last few days, how difficult your conflict with your father must have been. And how enduringly painful that must be. I truly wish I could take that pain away from you. I'm confident at some point, you'll be able to reconcile. No one can stay angry forever.
As I said, I have gay friends. In point of fact, I have two gay family members (one lesbian, one gay and still in the closet). I don't shun them, they are still my family and friends. And there are several conversations going on at once in this topic that has made me frequently more strident than I would be if we were talking one on one.

And I know a salvation speech doesn't fill your needs, either. It never did mine !
I've often gone to church and spoken to pastors, and felt condescended and patronized to. Not everyone is equipped to answer your questions (myself included), or my questions either, it's a difficult process.
One of my favorite lines is from the movie Reality Bites where Winona Ryder's character says: "I want my life to be like the Brady Bunch, where all my problems are resolved by the end of the hour."

If only.

So hang in there. And pray for guidance from God, regardless of scripture.

And my apologies for being so strident about scripture. That aspect (at least as it relates to the Biblical position on homosexuality) has been pretty abundantly explored here.

Ending on a more positive note:

quote:
PHILLIPIANS 1, verses 4-6:

4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy
5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now,
6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.