quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I think many people's problems with conservative Christianity is that its a closed shop to "alternative" (but increasingly mainstream) lifestyles: it concentrates more on orthodoxy (the "close-midedness" you refer to) than the pragmatic reality that there are gay Christians, there is science which disproves many aspects of the Bible, and there are problems in the priesthood (not least of which is the right of women to become priests).
I disagree with all these points. To answer them:

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I think many people's problems with conservative Christianity is that its a closed shop to "alternative" (but increasingly mainstream) lifestyles: it concentrates more on orthodoxy (the "close-midedness" you refer to) than the pragmatic reality that there are gay Christians...
1. Christianity is open to all who will believe. Those who violate Biblical teachings are, by definition, non-believers. It's the choice of those who break the Biblical law of Christian behavior, not the Christians or the God who live by them.
Your example is like saying that it's society's fault that an armed robber is in prison for 25 years, not the fact that he held up a liquor store and shot someone. "Society is hateful for putting him in prison, why do they have to enforce the laws?" Because those are the rules of society, and if you do not obey those rules, you are excluded for the good of all who believe in and obey the rules. Those who don't obey destroy it with actions and counter-ideology. Every organization and culture has to have rules and a standardized ideology to preserve itself.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:... there is science which disproves many aspects of the Bible...
2. Calls into question perhaps, but not disproves. As I said earlier, there are a number of books that explore the archaological and historical evidence for the Bible and its accuracy.
For all we know, the universe could have been created in 7 days.
I've read news articles in the recent past that confirm Biblical statements about the time of the fall of Jericho, that the Biblically prescribed number of days after birth for an infant's circumcision coincides with the most recent biological findings of when an infant's blood development makes him physically ready for that ritual, the forseen "army in the east" of 300 million men, which is foretold, and China now boasts a reserve of exactly that number. And that there are plans for damming of the river Euphrates, exactly as predicted for the end times, that would make an invasion of Israel possible from the far East.
So who is to say that the world wasn't created in 7 days?
My attitude on this fact has been, despite the fact that it doesn't seem possible with my present knowledge, that it should be taken as literal until proven beyond a doubt to be only symbolic. For me, the Bible and evolution are not mutually exclusive. I hold them as two theories, until one can be proven absolutely over the other.
But science has not disproven the Bible.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave: ....and there are problems in the priesthood (not least of which is the right of women to become priests).
3. I don't see women as priests as a major problem. Many are now Protestant pastors. There's no moral issue there. That will continue to develop very quickly, I think. It is far different from the gay marriage issue.


quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
In marginalising honorable and decent members of the community, it [the Christian church] will eventually become marginalised itself, if indeed this has not already happened.
4. I don't think the Christian church marginalizes anyone. It is open to all who will believe, as I said.

If you change the rules of a volleyball club to rules of basketball, you no longer have a volleyball club. It has become a basketball club, by any other name.
The same thing with Christianity.

It should not be expected to change its teachings which have worked just fine for over 2000 years, just because non-Christians want to re-make it in their own secular humanist image.

Using the example of gays:
It is HATEFUL of Christianity to expect gays to change, to Biblical laws of morality.

And yet it is NOT hateful for gays to expect Christianity to change, to conform to the gay concept of "morality".

That's quite a double standard.