quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
In any event, I think Dave has said that he sees no reason why a gay legal marriage shouldn't be allowed, just not a Christian gay marriage.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:

which, i think, is the best point (cuz its mine, from page 1!)

a religion is a private club -- they're allowed to make up the rules of their organization like that. somethings bad? ... god says so! pork is the devil? ok! pray on this mat 11 times a day? sure! whatever. if thats what they think god said, so be it. its their choice.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
One thing wrong with that: its discriminatory. You have a private golf club which won't let black guys play? The government can intervene - its discrimination, isn't it? Or a private restaurant which won't allow women? Government can step in and compel them to let in female patrons.

You have a church which won't let gay guys get married? Why, here is the government with a key to that particular door.

All pissing in the wind - as if any government is going to upset the Christian heartland - but still, that's what it boils down to.
I find this argument flawed. Homosexuality is not a racial or physical feature that can be singled out to exclude someone from a club. A club is just a group of people who have shared beliefs.
You can't bust up every group of people with individual beliefs, just because other people don't share those beliefs.

It's like if heterosexuals were to enter a gay organization and say We're heterosexual, but we have the right to call ourselves gay, and form our own version of homosexuality.
We all know plainly what homosexuality is, and such an act would be deliberately disruptive of the gatherings and beliefs of homosexuals.

Similarly, Christianity is clearly defined. Christian beliefs ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY are clearly defined in the Bible, and Christianity views homosexuality with clear disfavor.
So Christians have the right to those teachings, which have existed for 2,000 years in the New Testament, and far longer than that in the Old Testament.
It's interesting, though, Dave, because the argument you're pressing is what you previously dismissed as an unproveable "slippery slope" argument, alleging that legalizing gay marriage does not lead to an avalanche of other decadent legislation.
But here you are arguing that the Christian ability to publicly teach that homosexuality is immoral, IS DISCRIMINATORY, and should therefore BE BANNED. Because it excludes gays. Which is precisely the direction that gay activists are headed, if they can make gay marriage legal, and push it to the next level. Gay activists themselves say they will not stop with legalizing gay marriage, but will push on for further legislation. As will other fringe groups who will ride on the coat-tails of gay legislation.

As I've said since this topic began:
As laws stand at the moment, gays have a right to their lifestyle, and Christians (and others who disagree with gay marriage) have a right to their lifestyle. Neither one is banned from practicing their own beliefs.
I advocate maintenance of that balance, not legislation that will stomp on religious freedom of Christians to follow the Old and New Testaments as they were written, and a maintained balance that will allow Christianity to maintain their own clear perspective of homosexuality. Despite what homosexuals and liberals think, that is the right of Christians under the law, and that right should be maintained.