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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
KrazyXXX DJ,

Your post indicates that you believe YOUR beliefs are the only ones that matter, and that anyone who disagrees with you has the right to be overrun by the agenda you advocate.




There you made your first assumption on my post. I never said my beliefs are the only ones that matter -- but my rights? Should be equal to yours at this point and are not.
When something is being held from me that is given to you and I can't have it just because of your beliefs, yes, I'll get a little testy.

Infringing on rights and infringing on beliefs are TWO different things.


Quote:

Dave the Wonder Boy said:
Well gee whiz, I don't know what it's like to be a gay man.



That's the only fact I found in your post. And because of this, you cannot state that "homosexuality is a choice" as a fact because it is something you perceive to be true.



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Dave the Wonder Boy said:




Gee, thanks for that. Notice I refrained from the language and lewd insults in my post to you. Here's my reply:




Quote:

Dave the Wonder Boy said:
We all have to face the heat of what we are. And while you like to piss and moan about what a hard road you have to walk as a gay man, the truth is, your experience is probably not much different than my own.
So get off your frickin' white stallion already.




See, I never belittled your experience. Maybe your beliefs, but not your experience. I'm not on a white stallion. I'm not trying to withhold anything from you. But you're withholding something from me, just because your belief says I shouldn't have it. My experience IS different from yours, because at this point in time, you -- as an American - are granted a right I am NOT - as an American. That doesn't sit well with me. And if me pursuing a right that you have bothers you, that's tough shit. No one is taking anything from you in my pursuit of it.




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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
And I've consistently made this point repeatedly for 30 pages now, and gays like yourself consistently duck, weave, blunt, bypass, and plug your ears and hum, to avoid acknowledging that allowing gay marriage does affect me and my beliefs. It undermines my religious freedom to practice my Christian faith as it truly exists, and gay marriage would be the next step toward chipping away at that freedom, and working toward its complete annihilation in American culture and law.




It seems you're the one here with his ears plugged.
I'm not the one ducking and weaving here. I asked you HOW, in your day-to-day life, does it affect you? What burden does two men who love each other place upon YOU? I still didn't get an answer.


It undermines your freedom? HOW?




It does NOT undermine your freedom (your RIGHT) to practice your religion as it now exists. That has got to be one of the most useless statements I have heard out of you yet. How many marriages dissolved this last week because of the gay marriages in California? NONE.

*NO ONE is asking that you give up your belief in God.

*NO ONE is asking that you participate in a homosexual marriage.

*NO ONE is asking that you lower your standards of YOUR marriage. How is MY marriage going to diminish YOURS? That makes NO fucking sense.

*NO ONE is trying to snuff out your religion, or freedom to practice that religion. ON THE OTHER HAND - YOUR religion is constantly imposing it's beliefs onto ME, through government. How is that fair? How is that equal? You constantly pit homosexuality into the same categories as pedophilia, drug addiction, thievery, etc., based on your BELIEF. For a religion so full of "thou shall not judge" - full of it!


You keep making the statement that no one is considering YOUR rights, but as far as I can see here, your rights haven't been trampled on at ALL. You keep coming at the issue like someone is trying to run you over, to take something from you - when NO ONE is! I could care less what you think of me, and vice versa, when we are on EQUAL ground.


Some things in American culture NEED chipping-away at.

The majority of people didn't want inter-racial marriages. The majority of people didn't want women to vote. The majority of people didn't want to end slavery. The rights of people should not and must not be held hostage to the whim of the people. The issue of civil rights is an absolute.

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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
( And whether you like it or not, religious freedom is the foundation on which American government was formed, and was intended to preserve. Specifically, the freedom to practice Christianity in its Biblical form, not in the form imposed on Europe by the Anglican and Catholic churches. )




Freedom of religion also includes freedom FROM religion. However, I am denied my right because of an imposing Christian belief - How's that for ducking and dodging?




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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
As I just said in my previous post, legalizing gay marriage would not be the end of the gay rights issue, it's just the next step toward outlawing the practice of Christianity, as you and liberal schmucks like you slowly eradicate MY rights.




Aha! Finally, we're getting to the bottom of things. Fear.
We're not out to get your religion, believe it or not. You are allowed to practice any belief you want - as long as it does not impose on others!

No one is trying to snuff out Christianity or rid you of any right. We don't want you to remove Christianity from your life or Jesus from your heart. We just want you to pick it up and put it back into your own home. Stop putting it in everyone's faces as the ONLY truth. If I wanted or chose to worship some cow Goddess - THAT IS MY RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN. As long as I didn't do it in your house, it doesn't INFRINGE on any right you have. If Jesus lives in your yard - keep him there, and out of mine. THAT IS MY RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN.


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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
All you care about is your rights. You guys give idealistic lip-service to the rights of all people, but you don't give a damn about my rights being trampled on, so long as you get to do what you want.



Nothing could be further from the truth. If the roles were reveresed and it were CHRISTIANS who weren't allowed to marry, us liberals would have a lot to say about THAT, too. I would have a problem if you and I were born of the same earth yet you were held in lower regard because you didn't think the same as I.

Us liberal schmucks, we're less about the snuffing these days and more into fairness for EVERYONE. This here ain't Puritan Americana anymore, pahdna.



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Dave the Wonder Boy said:

But the point of gay/liberal rights snuffing out conservative traditions and values, and raising the level of decadence, permissiveness and chaos in our culture has been abundantly been made here, by myself and others.



No harmful offense meant, Dave, because I don't know you. But the world IS changing, whether YOU like it or not. If your belief helps you sleep better at night, then I am all the more for it. I could go into depth about how *I* believe in God, as well - the CHRISTIAN God - but how I see the Bible as flawed as it was written by man - afraid of what they did not understand- and men are known for power - and corruption - and changing things to their liking. For all the educated world knows, Jesus was just another Koresh. A delusional who had a strong power of persuasion. I don't believe that. But I do not believe that God put homosexuals on this earth to live unhappily, either.