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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
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Matter-eater Man said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:



4) Neither pornography or masturbation are specifically addressed in the Bible. ( Nor are television, movies, the Internet, air travel, antibiotics, guns, atomic weapons, recorded music, music videos, abortion, birth control, or a million other issues, that could all be argued to be protective, enlightening and beneficial to mankind, or decadent, unnatural and destructive.)
And there is VERY diverse opinion on these issues among the Christian community.

Whereas the Bible is extremely specific about the severity of adultery and homosexual behavior.

Your interpretation is your own interpretation, and NOT from the Bible.

The Matthew verse "he who looks at a woman with desire has already committed adultery in his heart", does not clearly draw the line between desire and adultery. To look at a woman in a dress or a bikini and think she's attractive, is much different from planning to have sex with her, and conspiring a plan to do so.
One analysis of that verse is that only when that desire becomes a plan to seduce her, does it become a sin.

One Christian book on sexuality I read called masturbation "God's greatest gift", a way to satisfy desire without committing adultery.
But again, the Bible does not clearly say masturbation or pornography are a sin. These are interpretations, and interpretations vary.

By your standard, I can't watch rated R movies, watch TV sitcoms, or look at a pretty girl at a shopping mall or the beach, because any of those things could incite desire.






Well, not that I care what you or anybody does for sexual pleasure (as long as it's not harming anyone) but the Bible does make it clear that lust is a sin. To masturbate you must lust (sin). So for people that take the stance that everything in the Bible is 100% true & overlook the obvious because it would mean they would have to control their sexual impulses is hypocrisy



I might actually take your accusations
of "hypocrisy" seriously, if I thought you had a clue
what you were talking about, and had some actual
familiarity with the Bible and what it says.

I mean geez, first off, you can't even correctly SPELL the word
hypocrisy.

And I'd wager you know even less about the Bible.




Well, I did misspell a word, it was something typed quickly & I didn't give it a second look. I guess I'm a bit more forgiving on spelling then you. Actually what I posted wasn't very complex. Quite simple Masturbation=Lust=Sin. You can go ahead & ask somebody knowledgeable at your church but I don't think your going to get a different answer.

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Dave the Wonder Boy said:

I just explained, partly in the section you quoted from me
above (that you clearly didn't thoroughly read), that the
Bible doesn't have any specific discussion of
masturbation. So again, there is no contradiction in what
I've said.



I think you used a Bible quote to dismiss somebody's argument, about Jesus saying he couldn't write every sin down for the world isn't large enough to contain the many books it would take. The Bible may not specifically address masturbation but it quite clearly covers lust. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible endorsing the practice.

Up until very recently the Christian religion certainly had the interpretation that masturbation was wrong. It was even called self abuse.

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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
I can honestly say I've never masturbated to Internet
porn. I'm still the master of my domain.



This sounds like Clinton speak. Just to be clear, your saying you don't masturbate at all? The master of your domain comment implies you have never masturbated. If that is true then your certainly no hypocrite and I'm in awe of your extraordinary will power.

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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
Most of the time I just delete this stuff when it's e-
mailed to me, and for a change of pace, I'd seen a lot of
similar stuff in the WOMEN section, and what the heck, I
posted a few pictures.
I posted there regularly for a few weeks, and then got
bored and drifted elsewhere. Like I told Amy off the
boards, you can only say "Woo !" and "This girl is SO
hot !!" so many times.

In the WOMEN section, there are discussions of
relationships, actors and actresses, dating, what men and
women find attractive in the opposite sex, and other
aspects of women.
But mostly discussion of attractive movie and TV stars,
swimsuit models, and other high-profile women, including
the occasional porn star. But that's not all the
WOMEN section is.

It's a lighter, more humor-laden topic section, and was a
welcome break for me from the recently smothering
seriousness and knock-down drag-outs in the DEEP THOUGHTS
section.
The WOMEN forum is not exactly the forum where you make
political posturing on the right or wrongness of
masturbation, porn, and so forth. Pretentious schmucks who
take themselves way too seriously (not naming names )
probably wouldn't enjoy it much over there.




Well, to be fair, since I'm gay the women forum really isn't a place that holds my interest. Actually agree with you & share pretty much the same sentiment about pretentious schmucks who take themselves way to seriously

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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
I know there's porn addiction out there, but just like
drinking too much wine or eating too many twinkies on a
regular basis, anything abused to an extreme can be bad.
Basically, if porn takes a form that is depraved or
degrading to men and women, I object to it (bondage and
discipline, urination videos, violent porn, etc.)

Or if it becomes an obsessive addiction.

And sex between couples in porn is obviously fornication,
and porn actors and actresses are exchanging money for sex,
which is prostitution, which the Bible obviously condemns.

But centerfolds in magazines like Playboy and Penthouse,
I don't see as wrong (although I'm thinking of 80's-and-
prior Penthouse, I haven't looked through it in a number of
years, and it may be a lot more explicit now than I remember).
Or even female masturbation in pictures or video, which
still doesn't cross the fornication/prostitution line.


Since nude or semi-nude women posing is just images and not
sex or prostitution, and someone can feel desire but
cannot actually pursue the woman in the images, I don't
see that as leading to sin.
Arguably, if a guy looks at porn and loses mastery of his
domain, that satisfies his desire and lessens his
inclination to premarital/extramarital sex.

And stepping away from singles, among married couples, one
partner often desires sex more than the other, and
masturbation is a way to let the one with the stronger
libido get it out of their system. Which could ease
tension that would otherwise exist in the marriage.

And other examples, but you get the point.

So since there's no specific verse dealing with it, I'm
still on the fence regarding how I feel about porn, despite
the arguments of many in the Christian community.

Maybe sometime I'll talk to someone familiar with scripture
who will convince me that pin-up girls are wrong too, but
until then I remain ambivalent to some degree on the
issues of porn and masturbation.




What you say is essentially the bright side of masturbation. The single guy masturbating is essentially lusting/sinning to avoid a bigger sin. He can't control his sex urges.

The married couple situation, the person blowing off steam would have to be careful not to "do" to much or fantasies about somebody else. With an aging relationship masturbation could easily become the problem.

Since you don't or never have masturbated I doubt you have to worry about pin up girls. At that point I would certainly just take your word that it's just an admiration of their beauty. Again I was just making the simple observation that you can't masturbate without lust which is a sin, very much talked about in the Bible. While you may not be a hypocrite, many in your camp doubtfully don't control their sexual urges. Any type of data I've seen on masturbation, shows that male masturbation is way up there in the 90 percentile. For those that judge others on homosexual behavior while not controlling themselves are indeed hypocrites.

Fair play!