Originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:
originally posted by Darkknight613:

Dave,

Are you listening to yourself? One guy shoots off his mouth and you're blaming all liberals for it. I'd challenge you on it, but since you don't seem to care about debate but prefer to take hit and run pot-shots at people, I don't feel like wasting any more time on you beyond this comment. I don't respect you enough to give you anything else.

THAT, my friend, is a hit and run pot shot.

Sorry about that. That was a bad week talking. For some reason, your post just rubbed me the wrong way, and I blew it out of proportion. So I apologize.

However...

I don't engage in cheap shots, as you allege. My last post with you (in the Partisanship" topic),
http://www.robkamphausen.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=27&t=000971
was a lengthy explanation of my views. Your response demonstrated that you're clearly very entrenched in yours, and with both our views made clear, I saw no reason to take it any further. I was also turned off by your arguing from a "Devil's Advocate" anonymous Democrat point of view, rather than taking personal accountability for the perspective you were arguing, which is clearly your own opinion, that you passionately argued, and not some vague/general "Devil's Advocate" viewpoint.

You obviously misunderstood my intentions and my point (something you have done in previous debates we've had, and I've gotten tired of it). That's how I argue with someone with an apparent bias - I present the other side to try and get them to consider ideas and possibilities they might not have considered. I've played this role for both sides many times. You presented yours, I presented an alterate, and if you were really interested in debate, or if you really did try to listen to all views, you would have challenged them or at least commented on them, rather than just assuming I had a bias of my own, and ignoring them. To me, that constitutes a pot shot. I would have debated with you, with my own views, had you asked. This isn't the first time you've done this either. That shows me a lack of respect to my ideas, and has me doubting whether or not you're actually interested in real debate.

I engage in discussions, not "hit and run potshots", as you allege. I explain what I believe, why I believe it, and try to discuss the issue without getting personal (something you and several others here would do well to learn). Which isn't always easy, given the personalness of many of the remarks directed at me.

See above. But again, my apologies for getting personal. I was wrong, and I admit it.

If you were reading these topics objectively, you would observe that you're the one insulting me, and that my comments were a direct response to a trashing of conservatives. A trashing that seems to go on relentlessly in the recent past here.

I am very much aware that your posts are responses to conservative/Republican bashing (something you'll notice I also took whomod to task for, and it's not the first time). I don't like it when anybody's "side" gets trashed. But a lot of your posts seem to be nothing more than rants based on biases and not on facts. Whomod, at least, tends to back up his comments with proof. Granted that proof is selective, but I take a researched comment more seriously than someone who apprears to be just mouthing off. Call it shallow, but that's how it works.

I'm not saying that ALL Democrats/liberals use these tactics, but it is a frequent and consistent tactic used by a large percentage of liberals, I'd say the majority of liberals, constantly portraying Conservatives as narrow-minded, stupid, repressors, Nazis, Draconian thugs, out-of-touch, bluebloods, incompetents promoted because of wealthy privelege (despite the fact that their Democrat opponents, including Al Gore, are wealthy and priveleged also), etc.
This biased and negative portrayal of Republicans has pretty much been the standard liberal press/Democrat portrayal of every Republican Presidential candidate since 1984, and pretty much the same biased portrayal in Senate and Congress elections I've observed over the last 20 years.
I'd say this is not an isolated campaign tactic of Democrats and the liberal press, but a standard way of practicing liberal politics.

Based on this post and several other debates you and I have had, you do come off like you're slamming every liberal under the sun at times. If you don't put a disqualifier, how am I supposed to know whether or not you're referring to everybody in a certain group? Perhaps in the future, you might want to be careful about that so that you don't keep having this debate.

I might add that liberal removal of prayer from schools, liberal attempts to remove "under God" from the pledge, Liberal attempts to bar from nomination any true conservative from the higher courts (Robert Bork, Clarence Thomas, the recent hispanic judge, whose name escapes me at this writing), liberal attempts to change the definition of marriage to something other than one man/one woman, as it has been for 6000 years, trying to change Christian tradition, instead of just creating their OWN tradition, liberal attempts to push religion out of all public institutions, which can only promote secularism over that of our unquestionably Judao/Christian rooted governmnent, that is unquestionably inspired by the Bible, with phrases and ideas directly from the Bible, and a belief that Christianity (according to the writings of the founding fathers, was an ESSENTAL part of a healthy democracy, the absence of Christianity being what caused every previous attempt at Democracy in human history to fail). Plus relentless media portrayals in news and entertainment, that negatively portray conservatives and Christians as hypocritical, narrowminded and ignorant, and promote hostility toward these groups.
And on and on.

Didn't we discuss this on the last thread?

ALL of these things, promoted by liberals and the liberal press, can be seen as a narrowminded repression of the beliefs and practices of moderates and conservatives in this country, and a repressive and Draconian HIJACKING of what our democracy was intended to be.

Repression, limiting of freedoms, bastardization of the Constitution itself, is just fine, it seems, as long as it is CONSERVATIVE ideas, beliefs, public expression and lifestyle that are being repressed. [/QB]

It seems to go both ways. Both sides seem to have a tendency to want the other side's ideals to be repressed, seeing it as a threat to their own.

Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.

EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.

I get really tired of liberal rhetoric on these boards that relentlessly bashes conservatives, and consistently bypasses these facts.

So do I. I get tired of any bashing whatsoever. That's exactly what the point of the Partisnaship thread was. Because I'm sick of liberals and conservatives constantly demonizing each other. And it bothers me that nobody walked away from that without thinking about the mesage I was trying to get through.

What constitutes "freedom" or "repression" for conservatives and liberals, really depends on which side best represents your views.
As a conservative, I find the liberal advances repressive on MY beliefs.

And as a moderate, I find the tug of war between conservatives and liberals leaves this country locked in a stalemate where nothing gets done because nobody can see past their own ideals.

And I am deeply annoyed by a news media that favors liberals, and relentlessly and biasedly portrays Conservatives as the repressors. It cuts both ways.

As am I. I study journalism, and journalists are supposed to be objective and not take sides. Although I have to say, there are times when the media portrays liberals as total woo-woos and the conservatives as the greatets thing to ever happen to this country.

If you went through my posts over the last two years on these boards, you'd see my firm rhetoric against liberals began here at EXACTLY the point all the anti-conservative/anti-Republican rhetoric began here. I'd say the Republican-bashing began in earnest about 9 or 10 months ago.

I might add that you've once again proven, as a liberal, your attempt to discredit my conservative view, once again using slanderous tactics to block-label my views into a dismissive category.

Now you're stereotyping. My challenge to your views came from sensing a bias, and I was just trying to show you another way of thinking. The insult came from, as I stated before, a bad week and a growing annoyance with you snubbing my comments in previous encounters.

My rhetoric is defensive, against an onslaught of anti-conservative liberal propaganda posted here. Which is painfully obvious to anyone here who is not... a liberal !

The way you come off, you sound like someone who refuses to listen to any other viewpoint than your own, and that's what turns me off. On a message board, it's tough to tell what one is really thinking based on a few paragraphs. Defensive or not, there's something about a person who refuses to listen to the other side that really bothers me, no matter what side or what issue we're talking about.

There are many liberals that I can talk to (in sharp contrast to many of the Democrats and liberals who post on these boards, who really feel a burning need to trash Republicans).

As I've said repeatedly, there are many ideas regarding health care reform, housing, affordable education, labor law, tax reform and so forth, even defense, from Democrats in Washington that I think at least offer a good brainstorm of ideas, if not ideas on many issues that are superior to what Republicans propose.
While my sensibilities lean toward the Republican perspective, I listen to both sides.

If you'll forgive me for saying so, you don't always give that impression.

In a democracy, it should be the sharing of ALL ideas, and selecting the best ideas from them, to have the best government.

Agreed.

For close to 20 years, Democrats have been unfairly slanting the news and demonizing Republicans, and certainly doing so here on these boards.
And then you have the audacity to call ME partisan for firing back?

Unlike yourself, I've just answered the allegations, instead of dismissively slandering your viewpoint.

Now I've answered yours.

And where were you when I politely responded to your post on the Partisanship thread? It took an insult in a brief moment of anger to get your attention. I can't help wondering if you would have even responded to my earlier post in this thread if not for those harsh words. I didn't dismiss and slander your viewpoint on the other thread. I made my response to yours, and you apparently snubbed it. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my intentions, but it's not fair to blame me for that.

But again, my apologies for the "lack of respect" comment. It's not fair for me to take out my problems on you or anyone else.

Hopefully next time, we'll be able to keep it civil.