I find the discussions a lot less fun when you get into a point-by-point quote-and-response format, and I think aside from you and me, Darknight613, probably no one else will read this.
It's NOT snubbery when I haven't answered previous long point-by-point lengthy posts like this in the past. It's recognition that you have your opinion, you've frequently add-libbed on my opinion, that even my CORRECTING where you add-libbed will likely not change your mind, and it's a lot of time and effort to go through point-by point and respond, when you're just going to deny the logic of what I've said in your next post, or (intentionally or not, I think often it SEEMS intentional but it's not) misinterpreting what I've said, or putting me in a dismissive category, no matter HOW many times I respond.

Your posting style in many ways resembles that of Typhoid Dave's, in that you seem to have good intentions, but you have a strong opinion, and you seem to be UNCONSCIOUS of the fact that you have an opinion, and credit yourself with impartial objectivity that you really don't have. I think T-Dave's a very bright guy, and I like him (at least I did until he started attacking me with bitter labels and hate rhetoric), but I find him very frustrating to debate with in the recent past. And no doubt he has a similar opinion of my own posts. YOU have an opinion, I have an opinion, EVERYONE has an opinion, and it's presumptuous for you to delegate yourself a superior position of objectivity when you're just as immersed in the discussion.

I don't pretend to have total objectivity, but neither is my opinion so skewed that it can be box-categorized and dismissed, as you've attempted to do repeatedly in your last two posts. My opinion is just as subjective, and just as OBJECTIVE, as yours.

On to the point-by-point:
quote:
Originally posted by Darknight613:


Dave,

Are you listening to yourself? One guy shoots off his mouth and you're blaming all liberals for it. I'd challenge you on it, but since you don't seem to care about debate but prefer to take hit and run pot-shots at people, I don't feel like wasting any more time on you beyond this comment. I don't respect you enough to give you anything else.

quote:
Originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:


THAT, my friend, is a hit and run pot shot.


quote:
Originally posted by Darknight613:


Sorry about that. That was a bad week talking. For some reason, your post just rubbed me the wrong way, and I blew it out of proportion. So I apologize.
I appreciate that. And again, I'm not above that either. I'd be lying to say I haven't done the same.
quote:
Originally posted by Darknight613:


However...

quote:
originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:

I don't engage in cheap shots, as you allege. My last post with you (in the Partisanship" topic)...
http://www.robkamphausen.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=27&t=000971

...was a lengthy explanation of my views.
Your response demonstrated that you're clearly very entrenched in yours, and with both our views made clear, I saw no reason to take it any further.
I was also turned off by your arguing from a "Devil's Advocate" anonymous Democrat point of view, rather than taking personal accountability for the perspective you were arguing, which is clearly your own opinion, that you passionately argued, and not some vague/general "Devil's Advocate" viewpoint.
You obviously misunderstood my intentions and my point (something you have done in previous debates we've had, and I've gotten tired of it). That's how I argue with someone with an apparent bias - I present the other side to try and get them to consider ideas and possibilities they might not have considered. I've played this role for both sides many times.
I've never seen you take a Republican perspective, the closest I've seen you do is a "Both sides stop fighting" type statement. Perhaps you've argued the Republican/conservative side in a topic I haven't seen.


quote:
Originally posted by Darknight613:

You presented yours, I presented an alterate, and if you were really interested in debate, or if you really did try to listen to all views, you would have challenged them or at least commented on them, rather than just assuming I had a bias of my own, and ignoring them.
As I said, your liberal perspective was clear. I didn't feel it worth the time and effort for me to roll over the same ground in another two or three rounds of posts. In past discussions, the opposition tends to repeat their allegations against me, and not acknowledge any of the corrections I take the time to write.
(see the Canadians legalize Same-sex Marriage topic, as one example, or the many Iraq/WMD debates)


quote:
Originally posted by Darknight613:


To me, that constitutes a pot shot. I would have debated with you, with my own views, had you asked. This isn't the first time you've done this either. That shows me a lack of respect to my ideas, and has me doubting whether or not you're actually interested in real debate.
I find that rather accusing, from the guy who's hurling the insults at me, and boxing MY opinion into dismissive categories. Until you took me on personally, I was limiting myself to the issues, and in a necessarily defensive way, in answer to your questions, I still am.

I frankly explain my ideas more fully, offer more links to sources for my perspective, than just about any conservative here (I consider myself moderate Republican, but due to my giving equal time to the Republicans, I've been BRANDED a Conservative extremist by the political opposition here), with the exception of maybe G-man, Britney, and maybe a few others.

It seems no matter WHAT i post, no matter what references, from PBS News to the Wall Street Journal, to the New York Times, to the Associated Press, to 60 Minutes, I'm accused of "not backing up" my perspective with facts. And no matter how many times I say I DIDN'T EVEN VOTE for George W. Bush, I'm accused of being a fanatical zombie of the Republican party.

I've said OVER AND OVER that I accept the possibility that Bush could be guilty of these allegations, but that the case has not been made yet, to the point that liberals and the liberal media can call our President and his administration liars and criminals.
I say over and over that the level of venom directed at Bush reeks of bias and false allegation, to the point that I question the ALLEGATIONS rather than the President.

No matter how many times I say that, people on the other side of the aisle here continue to label me as a "right wing fanatic" and "biased to the Republicans" for simply being disturbed by the level of venom against a president who has yet to be proven guilty of anything.


quote:
originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:


I engage in discussions, not "hit and run potshots", as you allege. I explain what I believe, why I believe it, and try to discuss the issue without getting personal (something you and several others here would do well to learn). Which isn't always easy, given the personalness of many of the remarks directed at me.

quote:
Originally posted by Darknight613:

See above. But again, my apologies for getting personal. I was wrong, and I admit it.


"See above"?!? I guess I get the point.

quote:
originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:


If you were reading these topics objectively, you would observe that you're the one insulting me, and that my comments were a direct response to a trashing of conservatives.
A trashing that seems to go on relentlessly in the recent past here.

quote:
originally posted by Darknight613:

I am very much aware that your posts are responses to conservative/Republican bashing (something you'll notice I also took whomod to task for, and it's not the first time).

Yes, I did see that you challenged Whomod for his harsh rhetoric. Although you didn't make the personal accusations toward him that you did to me, that my opinion is basically "not worthy" of serious response (in your subjective opinion).

WITHOUT Whomod's insulting portrayal of conservatives, my response would definitely have been something far different. I feel that you gave token admonishment to Whomod, and saved your real venom for dismissively attempting to discredit me.
Which is a tactic I see the news media use quite often. They give a surface appearance of exploring both sides, but clearly favor one side and caricature the other.