Originally Posted By: Chant
well, the lying part, you can't really prove he knowingly lied. The torture part, has he said he condoned it? and the violation of International law, is that the thing with invading Iraq without a UN mandate? well, as you know, a nation does not really need a mandate from the UN to declare war when they act in self defense.
And that leads back to the part where you can't prove he knowingly lied

you may have a point about the UN, though it is a pretty shortsighted thing to do.
But you can't sit there and say they didn't lie (or mislead if you prefer that word) the public and the international community. They mislead people, ignored facts they didn't like and there is proof that they wanted a war with Iraq since before 9/11. And since I already posted a thread with videos where they lied after the fact about the things they said leading up to the war you really can't defend their credibility.

Also keep in mind that the violations of the Geneva Convention regarding torture(regardless of their redefinitions of age old terms) do constitute "war crimes." In fact torture levels were lower under Saddam.

Bow ties are coool.