RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Fortress of Awesome Chat Teabags

The translation I've read he's called ""the Opera Ghost"" (or Erik), and what the hell are you on about it isn't gothic fiction? It's about as gothic as fiction gets, for christ's sake. Supernatural plot elements aren't an essential requirement. The Phantom of the Opera is far more part of the gothic tradition than Dracula or Frankenstien ever were.
It's stated in the novel (by the enigmatic Persian who provides a deus ex machina to bail the other characters out) that the ghost used to work for some Persian sheikh who employed him as an architecht, and is the man who designed the opera house.
If you enjoyed Leroux, there's a novel by Susan Kay, called Phantom, which fills in the rest of the details of his history, ands carefully avoids contradicting anything in the original novel."

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Originally posted by Seahorse:
How wonderful. Spending hours seriously contemplating the legal effects of seeing Superman on a pair of pants. Somehow it makes me love DC more. :)

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Worse, they were jockeys. I know because a pair was tendered as evidence.

ty for the Perpetuation of Independent Thought

www.robkamphausen.com"

Bevis wrote:

"

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Originally posted by D. McDonagh:
The translation I've read he's called ""the Opera Ghost"" (or Erik), and what the hell are you on about it isn't gothic fiction? It's about as gothic as fiction gets, for christ's sake. .

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See, I don't think it is though. It's got gothic elements but the way it's written, the structure of the story, is much more... real, I guess, than most gothic fiction. It does have a bit of a deux a machine (in the Persian as you say) and some very melodramatic points (like the floating skull, but that's one of the best bits) but it's not the same as the other gothic fiction I've read. Same as Gormenghast. You could class it as gothic fiction but it doesn't quite fit the mould to my mind. I may have the exact definition of gothic wrong but the examples we looked at in English Lit at A-Level and Uni don't seem to be the same thing.

[QOUTE]It's stated in the novel (by the enigmatic Persian who provides a deus ex machina to bail the other characters out) that the ghost used to work for some Persian sheikh who employed him as an architecht, and is the man who designed the opera house.[/QUOTE]

The explanations are all very vague though, which I like. I do remember almost being dissappointed when you actually got told his name was Erik. Didn't quite seem to fit for some reason. Is it stated he actually built the opera house? it's a while since I read it and while i remember it being said he was a designer and architect I wasn't sure if he built the opera. I should re-read it. It's not a long book and quite easy to read. Difficult to put down too.

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If you enjoyed Leroux, there's a novel by Susan Kay, called Phantom, which fills in the rest of the details of his history, ands carefully avoids contradicting anything in the original novel.

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Does it not take away something from the mystery of the ghost? That's why I really liked the book, the fact that you're not given all the answers. I'm not sure if I'd really want to know who he was exactly and all that sort of stuff. I may well check it out though.

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Um yeah, Kay's book does do that. It's basically Erik's biography, explaining just how it was he came to be skulking around the Paris opera house scaring people. It's interesting stuff, but it does screw up his mysterious aura.

As for the gothic thing, I forget how it's defined, but I'd always thought Leroux's novel was very gothic. Supernatural elements aren't an essential element of the genre, and there's all this Radcliffe/Walopole type stuff going on: imprisoned women, enclosed settings, a lot of the action taking place underground, odd murders, stuff like that. The set up and the scenario is very gothic, IIRC."

Bevis wrote:

"Ah, see, but I don't think the execution is though. Same thing with Gormenghast. Very gothic setting and characters, and even plot elements, but the actual story is done differently. Sort of the same way that Mansfield Park is a very gothic novel but is pointedly not one (OK so it's a parody of gothic novels, but you get what I mean.) Mind, Mansfield Park is also a pile of poo, much like every other Jane Austen novel."

Alistair wrote:

I think you mean Northanger Abbey.

Vile writer anyway.

Bevis wrote:

"Yes, you're right. My A-level English Lit teacher persuaded me to read it after i said I thought Austen had no sense of humour (or at least the most dismal one I had ever encountered in a writer), no sense of drama and wrote the most irritating characters in the world. Northanger Abbey was supposed to show to me her amazing sense of humour and the sparkling parody of gothic novels.

Only it sucks. really, *really* badly. Her heroines always make me want to scream and the fact that nothing, but nothing, happens in any of her books that are worth talking about was only made all the clearer by Northanger Abbey. She may just as well have been writing a self-parody.

Worst Jane Austen novel though is... oooh, I forget even which on it is. Pride and Prejudice I think. The one where the dramatic highpoint is a wet bint falling off a wall and hurting her ankle. Yuk. Give me Thomas Hardy or one of the Brontes any day over Austen. They all tend to go a little bit melodramtic at times (and Hardy has the most convoluted but obvious plots in the world) but at least the books are fun to read and even the really nasty characters are great."

I'm glad we can agree on something. Jane Austen was an evil woman.

What does all this have to do with tea? You're dragging this thread off-topic. "

It is too relevant! In one of the film versions, the Phantom was disfigured by having an urn of hot tea tipped over his head. So there."

Mike Carey wrote:

Wasn't there also one where he was beaten repeatedly about the head with a Jane Austen novel?

I think that might've been the same one, actually. Terry Nation's little loved and unacclaimed BBC television film version from the late 'Seventies. Why the hell they thought shifting the action to a local council office was a good idea is beyond me, but Paul Darrow made a great phantom."

Papercut Fun wrote:

"And in every Jane Austen novel, I've noticed that the letter ""T"" appears at least once. In some cases, many thousands of times. This thread works on so many levels.

I don't think I've ever read her write about Kool Aid though. She was always a bit of bitch when it came to fruit flavoured crystals that dissolve in water."

Pride and Prejudice bored me stupid. It might have been contemporarily unique, but it putrefied my brain with what I perceived to be formulaic garble.

Jane Austen didn't like tea: proved by the fact that ""Jane Austen"" can be scrambled to say ""teas un-Jane"".

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The Society for the Perpetuation of Independent Thought

www.robkamphausen.com"

Bevis wrote:

"It's not Pride and Prejudice, it's Persuasion. I realised because I was going through some of my stuff last night and came across the cover of my copy from A-Level English. I'd completely forgotten that the cover has this pic of a twee little girl in a floucny dress and holding a frilly parasol. Only my elder sister had got a big black pen and changed the title to 'Alternative Sexual Persuasion' and redone the girl so that she was a leather d.yke with a whip. Don't think my english teacher approved of that. And then when we finished the course I ceremoniously tore each page from the book and burned it, all except for the cover. he he.

And then to get back on topic i just ahd a cup of tea. I think it was Tetley's and I didn't leave it to stew for long enough, but it was tea nonetheless and that's important at this time in the morning."

Papercut Fun wrote:

"I'm drinking coffee right now, which is a kind of tea. And even if it's not, it sure is hitting the spot.

Which brings up an interesting question...ol' Luci is a bit of an upper class fella. What kind of coffee do you think he stops in for at the local Starbucks at 2 in the afternoon? I gotta believe it's some kind of specialty coffee....but no decaf for our boy. No, I'm thinking a double latte with cinnamon topping and 3 packets of brown sugar. Simple yet sinful. Any other thoughts?"

Bevis wrote:

"Being allergic to coffee myself I'm not sure what he'd drink, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't get anything from Starbucks. I know a lot of people claim the place is the work of the devil but I'm sure he'd deny all responsibility. Even the devil isn't that evil.

He'd probably prefer some nice little shop where they grind their own coffee and everything is black and gold. One of those ones that actually smells of really gound coffee beans rather than stewed coffee (the smell of coffee when it's actually made makes me retch but I love the smell of roast coffee beans. Go figure...)"

Bevis wrote:

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Originally posted by Bevis:
One of those ones that actually smells of really gound coffee beans

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""really gound coffee beans""?!? Sheesh, that's me not paying attention 'Really good ground coffee beans' is what I meant."

Alistair wrote:

I think Starbucks are one of the devil's finest works.

Vagabond wrote:

"It's too bad this is only my lunch-hour. I could go from here into a wonderful rant about the evils of America. But I don't have time.



Guess I'll go sulk now."

Is the horned one likely to go visiting coffee shops when he owns his own nightclub? I'll grant it isn't a nightclub anymore (unusually strict door policy if it is), but he'd probably have salvaged the coffee machine for his own use. He's a man of wealth and taste, after all."

Papercut Fun wrote:

He wouldn't drink nightclub coffee. That's barely one step up from auto repair garage waiting room coffee.

Starbucks may be mass marketed evil...but it's tasty mass marketed evil (just like popcorn with extra not-quite-butter topping).

Lux would have to have a brass capuccino machine hidden in a dark coner somewhere...

I am a regular at Starbucks because they are the only people who will make me a soy hot chocolate. Whether thery are perverse for making such a devil's brew or I am perverse for drinking it, I'm not sure.

ty for the Perpetuation of Independent Thought

www.robkamphausen.com"

Papercut Fun wrote:

Wow...they'll turn soy into anything these days won't they?

Handy for those of us who are lactose intolerant. Cursed cows!

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The Society for the Perpetuation of Independent Thought

www.robkamphausen.com"

Lord_Savaunt wrote:

" No Luci would not go into Starbucks, he'd go into Bocherrinis of course. It's this nice little coffee shop in Albany OR, right on 1st St. Round the corner from where the comic shop used to be before it went out've business.

Now you might ask what he'd get right? Well you better ask damn you! If you don't there will be... well I don't know what there'll be, but it won't be nice I'll tell ya that.

Anyway... He'd get an Italian Soda (Lime Flavored most likely) and a straw. Maybe he'd compliment it with a Cafe Mocha, but he'd get the Italian Soda first."

Is this a specific brand of pop or some sort of strange mixed cordial?

Lord_Savaunt wrote:

" As far as I am aware it's a specific way of making the soda. I'm not sure how it's done, but there isn't any carbonation that I know of. They taster really great though."

Papercut Fun wrote:

Italian Soda?

Why do I get the distinct impression that each bubble contains the scream of some poor soul who owes money to the mob?

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Originally posted by Papercut Fun:
Italian Soda?

Why do I get the distinct impression that each bubble contains the scream of some poor soul who owes money to the mob?

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Heh. I quite like that.

ty for the Perpetuation of Independent Thought

www.robkamphausen.com"

Lord_Savaunt wrote:

"

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Originally posted by Papercut Fun:
Italian Soda?

Why do I get the distinct impression that each bubble contains the scream of some poor soul who owes money to the mob?

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There aren't any bubbles though. No carbonation + no bubbles if I recall my Caffine 101 courses. Seems the bubbles all got themselves whacked.

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Vagabond wrote:

"I'm just guessing here, but...

If you mix pop syrup with regualr water, rather than soda water, you don't get bubbles. (If you then freeze it and stir it a lot you get slurpees. MMM.)

In other news, it's SNOWING!!! AGAIN!!! A LOT!!!

I mean, this is April! Yesterday I was ogling the girls in their shorts and tank tops. This morning, I get out the door and there's four inches of snow on the ground! And it's still snowing 8 hours later!

Errgghh.

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11 November - LEST WE FORGET

""One head. One brain. Good. Quick, get duct tape!""
-a freind, after a 30-hour drive accross five states looking for a hotel."

I'm devastated! I'm so depressed I may never recover. The little old ladies who run the tea bars in courts are leaving! The Women's Royal Voluntary Society have decided to concentrate on services for elderly people, rather than brewing tea for thirsty lawyers, journalists, crooks and witnesses. How am I going to get through the working day without tea?

They're talking about getting ... *shudder* ... a vending machine. Instant vending machine tea... (throws up)."

Mike Carey wrote:

"Even a thermos would be better than that, Brian. You've just got to be prepared to think the unthinkable."

Vagabond wrote:

"This may be terribly colonial of me, but the thought does occur of taking a thermos of hot water and a teabag or two with you, and then brewing the tea when you're ready to drink it.

Or is there some subtle British tea thing I missed here?

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11 November - LEST WE FORGET

""One head. One brain. Good. Quick, get duct tape!""
-a freind, after a 30-hour drive accross five states looking for a hotel."

Lord_Savaunt wrote:

"

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Originally posted by Vagabond:


Or is there some subtle British tea thing I missed here?

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A phrase not TOO uncommon to be heard by a lot of people who might read this thread I imagine :) ."

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Originally posted by Vagabond:
This may be terribly colonial of me, but the thought does occur of taking a thermos of hot water and a teabag or two with you, and then brewing the tea when you're ready to drink it.

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It is the characteristic British arrogance of those who disdain to make their own tea while at work. The failure of this arrogant, bone idle outlook led to the fall of the Empire. Were there more people with Seahorse's outlook, the empire would not have fallen, and we wouldn't be taking lip from uppity colonials.
On the other hand, we also probably wouldn't be reading comics published in America. Swings and roundabouts.
Oh, and trust me on this, there is nothing subtle about British tea drinking."

1. Did I mention I'm going to be a dad on 15 October?

Yay!

2. Can someone explain to me why if tea originated in China, why Chinese tea and Western tea taste so different?

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The Society for the Perpetuation of Independent Thought

www.robkamphausen.com"

Heaven's Betrayal wrote:

"I feel compelled to mention that I read this whole thread at one go. I think my brain has turned into Sunny Delight flavored Jell-O for my efforts but that's not always a bad thing. To keep this post on topic, I just finished a cup of Peppermint Spice tea. I think I'll just stick with regular Peppermint from now on. Start getting too fancy with the herbal stuff and it gets to be bad-tasting in a hurry.

I'm also a fan of the occassional cup of plain Ceylon. My grandma turned me on to that stuff. She's something of a tea snob, wouldn't touch Earl Grey: Hot with a ten foot pole but since we're all Yanks for a few generations back, I don't know who she thinks died and made her the Tea Goddess.


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""I was provided with additional input that was radically different from the truth. I assisted in furthering that version,""
-- Colonel Oliver North, Iran-Contra testimony."

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Originally posted by D. McDonagh:
Were there more people with Seahorse's outlook, the empire would not have fallen, and we wouldn't be taking lip from uppity colonials.

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So I must think the unthinkable (copyright New Labour) and restore the Empire. Well, that should take a few hours and I'll need a strong cup of tea.

Welcome Heaven's Betrayal - I stick to peppermint too. I've tried all kinds of herbal teas and mint's the only one I like, as opposed to ""can stand"".

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