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I think that this shows some of the problems with the feminist movement. Many women believe that feminism should be for women to get out of the home and into the work place and forget the old housewife position. Many other women believe that it should be their choice to either work or stay at home. Sometimes one group gets angry at the other for not conforming. I believe that's what's happened here.
Amy, you're obviously a feminist. You believe in equal pay for equal work and the value of the woman in the work place. Well, good for you. You seem to have a good work ethic and have the drive to be successful. I think the fact that other women have chosen to use their bodies to make some quick cash offends you on a level that it can't offend the male posters here. It's more personal with you since it seems to degrade the status that you've driven to put yourself in. You are passing a moral judgement on people you don't know because it lessens the work that you and other professional women have done.
But, in reality, it has nothing to do with you. Their decisions have no affect on your life. These women have exercised their choice just as women like you and housewives have. To use the excuse that it just makes all women sex objects in the minds of men is a bogus complaint. One, it doesn't. Men who will see these women in that way do so to all women anyways. This is just an outlet. Two, considering the fact that many women have that mindframe about men pretty much levels the playing field (and it's undeniable. I work with a shitload of women who do just that.).
In short, women running around nude getting hit with paint pellets is no more degrading than a woman who has to scrub floors or wash dishes in a cafeteria for a living. Each is doing what they can for money without being the model woman who holds down an exec. job at some gigantic company or whatever other paradigm for the modern woman that the media puts out to the mainstream.
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
The basic rule is always......would you want your daughter doing it? If a woman is doing something that you wouldn't want your daughter doing..then you shouldn't support it..unless she is your wife or girlfriend.. ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif) Otherwise you are a hypocrite.
even thats not true, for some of the same reasons i listed above.
many would not want their wives being a janitor or a waitress or a lawyer or a medical doctor or a talk show host or whatever. all for various reasons and due to various perspectives.
these girls are old enough to make their own decisions, even the wrong ones.
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You know you’re being a huge hypocrite Amy. Just look at some of your post and tell me they’re not sexist. quote:
Originally posted by Batwoman:
-Of course you and all the other guys that think this will say it's not degrading. After all, your men and any chance you have of watching a woman undress, or spread 'em, or run around nakid you wont complain.
-Typical that a guy would bring up pregnancy as a weakness.
-You may say this because you're a guy
-That's because men are too selfish
You’re classifying all men into a single group of “men” that are sexist mean pigs and that’s really unfair to those of us (most of us) who aren’t. You think the same thing for women. By one woman stripping for money she somehow hurts all other women. People are just that. People. Individuals. Not males and females.
And nobody is flaming you. We’re only debating you on this. I only quoted you because your post had the most that I wanted to reply to.
quote:
Originally posted by Batwoman:
They aren't told that they can make something of themselves if they alplied themselves and went to college
Guess what Amy. That’s not the medias job. Their job is to provide something fun and entertaining to the people so they go out and spend their money on it. And I guess for these few sick fetishist it is fun. If you want somebody to tell you you can be successful and make something of yourself that’s what your family and friends are for
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Doog the MIGHTY 10000+ posts
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IT WAS ALL A BIG FAT HOAX!!....maybe. Actually, Urban Legends provides no proof it was a hoax other than common sense.
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Back to the debate....
I always question feminists that site the obvious differences in men and women all of which the men are EVIL in of course...so if men are so evil why would you want to be equal to us and share in our unearned conquests?!?!?
And agiain batwoman talks about strippers and prostitutes being encouraged to persue educational advances...yet NEVER accepts the fact that not all of these women are stupid!! They realize the other options and choose those easiest and more profitable!
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quote:
Originally posted by Silver Armadillo:
quote:
Originally posted by Batwoman:
quote:
[QUOTE] 2) Women usually never dress professionally..I've worked in 3 different fields where I had to wear a shirt and tie, and/or suit everyday, and the women who worked at higher, equal and lower positions mostly wore glorified t-shirts and all sorts of inappropriate clothing.
Don't even go there. The only women I have seen that don't dress professionally are teenagers and college students. Because they don't know you're suposed to dress professionally for work. Believe me, I've been working for 15 years now and spent 6 years in retail, 8 in coporate america and 1 in a bakery. All in all, the only time I didn't dress biz casual or corporate, was when I worked at a dotcom, and the bakery. Every job I've had required me to dress a certain way and my sister drilled into me that you dress up for an interview. Even when you go apply for a retail job.
It really does make sense that you would say that,
you are a woman you don't know any better.
I agree with Piggy on this one. The 3 offices I have worked at require men to wear ties and dress pants, but women nice t-shirts. Really doesn't make sense.
Agreed the dress code for women is often skewed...
Men must always have collars.
Men can't wear denim but women can.
And back to the point brought up about women dressing skanky for free or getting paid for it...
Many allegedly educated women on the psych units I work often wear short short mini skirts...or low cut blouses....granted I aint complaining but on a unit full of sex starved schizophrenics....is that really wise?
At least when youre at the strip clubs you only have to worry about the non commitibly insane like the Nature Boys!
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quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
IT WAS ALL A BIG FAT HOAX!!....maybe. Actually, Urban Legends provides no proof it was a hoax other than common sense.
Maybe the huntingforbambi fartknockers just want people off their back so they can continue to run the "company" in private.
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Dont tell Kimi...but we're doing our own hunt at NBCON 2003!
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Dont tell Kimi...but we're doing our own hunt at NBCON 2003!
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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There you go. Clothes are on, and it doesn't hurt like a paintball thingy or being covered with honey and tied to a tree near a fire ant pile.
.... Or so I've been told and I choose to believe it.
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We made Llance undress we had him runnin' 'round so much we wore the poor baby out! 
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Weird thread! I'll just say this: Strippers are okay, but women who work in the "Adult Film" industry are the livin' shit! I salute (please note that my hands are still at my sides while I'm performing this "salute"... *wink-nudge*) you fine, skanky gals as the true patriots that you are! :lol:
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"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by THE Franta:
And agiain batwoman talks about strippers and prostitutes being encouraged to persue educational advances...yet NEVER accepts the fact that not all of these women are stupid!! They realize the other options and choose those easiest and more profitable!
![[sad]](images/icons/frown.gif) That what I was referring to in my post that everyone ignored.
Next time you are in a strip club (which should be tomorrow, from what I hear) take a look at the guys compared to the strippers, and tell me who are the stupid ones in that situation.
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I was just emphasizing the point myboy...
and we're hitting the strip clubs AFTER the comic con...August 8th...
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betrayal and collapse 5000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by THE Franta:
I was just emphasizing the point myboy...
and we're hitting the strip clubs AFTER the comic con...August 8th...
YES!
Er...I mean cool.
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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Fanboys. ![[no no no]](graemlins/nono.gif) [SHAMELESS PIMPAGE]I would really love for all of you to come join my new message boards. Just one more stop on your online itinerary. [/SHAMELESS PIMPAGE]
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We already are 15000+ posts
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It was all staged......it's all a scam to sell videos.
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NOW AVAILABLE ON DVD!!!
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Doog the MIGHTY 10000+ posts
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YES!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait to get my copy of Red X!!!!!11!1
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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It seems that some people can't take the image of LLance naked, so their brain protects them from it by replacing it with a red X.
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Its like a vision of the Lord!
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It'll kill the living and wake the dead!
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So after the living die, would they come back with the dead, orrrr...is it like a trading places type of deal?
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quote:
Originally posted by Stupid Dogg:
YES!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait to get my copy of Red X!!!!!11!1
![[humina humina]](graemlins/love.gif) I can see the pic perfectly.
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Its like he's just screaming, "Get your fruity ass over here and ravage me you sack of farm-fresh sausage!"
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Peacock Teaser 3000+ posts
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Might as well comment.
Pig Iron, about your comments about women in the workplace. I work in a uniform (pale blue scrubs) and so there is no problem with dressing wrong. Heck, I've seen guys with pierced everything and pants down to their knees doing retail at a store. Oh yeah, that's an example of dressing wrong. I think it is mostly an age thing.
Batwoman, I can see why you are mad. The two earlier occupations for women were wife and prostitute. There's this idea that because of their ages, those are the two occupations we do best. In fact, that is not true. We both have jobs outside those fields.
Prostitution (and to a lesser degree marriage and pregnancy) right after school is seen by education women like myself (and perhaps Batwoman agrees with me) as a sort of easy escape from the realities of the modern world that not only allows women to get other jobs, but encourages that. And when a two-person income is needed to raise a family, there's no shame in getting a job. I know tons of girls that slept through first period English because they worked a late night at Hooters (although its just a sports bar, why else work there...). They didn't graduate from school, but they did graduate from Hooters and now work at some places in Tampa. Oh, that's really moving on up. Now, the only thing they have left is what's between their thighs and how long will that last? They have only enough money to pay the month's rent, there is no way they can save up for college or be truly sucessful as a girl the same age going to school to become a doctor or a lawyer. To a lesser extent, I know girls that married right out of high school. Haven't talked to them since. Their too busy with the baby. Some woman can balance school and a family, but I know a guy can hold a grudge if he's the only one bring in the money.
Now of course, we can't force any woman that reverts to one of those two early jobs. However, to me it shows a lack of disipline, responsibility, and ambition, as well as a low-self esteem.
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WOW!
Must be nice to be able to get your self esteem boosted by putting down people who have jobs that dont meet your morale caliber.
Many of the same women stripping and working the streets may say you dont have enough esteem to show off your body...or that you're the stupid one for wasting time in college only to get a dead end job.
Ive met women my age and older who make more money than I do as a nurse...not even prostitutes but strippers models and such...granted maybe not much job security but what job is secure today?
And I dont find it fair that you impose your morals onto other women who are doing just fine in their profession. Granted it aint all a bed of roses but what ever is?!?!
And some time "the easy way out" is the only way for some to survive in this world.
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I'm just saying that the way they present themselves. Are there exceptions? Of course, there are exceptions in every case.
And yeah, I'm sure some of them think I am wasting time only to get a dead-end job. Lucky for me, that wont be the case.
And hey, I'm not imposing my morals on them. Imposing suggests I am going to go to every stripper and say she is a sinner or a whore or whatever would ticker off and tell her to go get a real job. Now I can't do that. I wouldn't want to. She has a right to chose whatever job she wants -- however, the people I know that are in the job are not there because they have a high self esteem about their bodies -- they are there because they lack the job skills to do anything else. Are they all like that? No. A good number of them? Possibly.
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Women don't know what they want in life, they should be rocketed to the heights of society without education and resposibility for their actions. For they are always right and men are scum.
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I think it's sad and disgusting that a place like that exists(I don't know how someone could get off shooting someone with a paintball gun), but the participants do have a choice in the matter.
I think the only way something can really be degrading is if the person involved is forced to do it against their will. Ask any prostitute if they feel what they're doing is degrading or wrong and I promise you they will all say "no". Unless there's more to this story that we don't know about, I'd imagine the same is true for these girls.
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Bingo AnimalMan. They are not being forced into it. However, I do wonder if the guy gets sued by one of the girls and she'll claim to have been forced to do something.
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Did any of you bother to read my post? The hunts never really happened......it's all been exposed as a scam. The guy that supposedly staged the hunts set such a high price so no one would actually book a hunting trip but they would buy his "Hunting For Bambies" videos. Every media outlet that reported the story was duped......none of the idiots bothered to research the story for themselves. ![[izzat so?]](graemlins/zatso.gif)
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I think it's a mistake to assume that because a woman strips/prostitutes, etc., that a self-esteem problem automatically exists. People can choose to do what they want with their life and, so long as they don't hurt others, they should do whatever they want.
If one chooses to define discipline as intrinsically more good than a lack of discipline, then of course one would reach the same conclusion as some of the other posters here. However, circumstances do not always cooperate with discipline--I've met many people that will attest to this.
I also find the notion that prostitution is somehow an escape from reality to be a particularly silly and fanciful notion with little basis in reality. Reality is much more than what one personally (chooses) to know.
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quote:
Originally posted by theory9:
I think it's a mistake to assume that because a woman strips/prostitutes, etc., that a self-esteem problem automatically exists. People can choose to do what they want with their life and, so long as they don't hurt others, they should do whatever they want.
If one chooses to define discipline as intrinsically more good than a lack of discipline, then of course one would reach the same conclusion as some of the other posters here. However, circumstances do not always cooperate with discipline--I've met many people that will attest to this.
I also find the notion that prostitution is somehow an escape from reality to be a particularly silly and fanciful notion with little basis in reality. Reality is much more than what one personally (chooses) to know.
I agree with Theo 100%.
I love strip clubs and over the years got to be friends with lots of girls that work in them.
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quote:
Originally posted by Cowgirl Jack:
I'm just saying that the way they present themselves. Are there exceptions? Of course, there are exceptions in every case.
And yeah, I'm sure some of them think I am wasting time only to get a dead-end job. Lucky for me, that wont be the case.
And hey, I'm not imposing my morals on them. Imposing suggests I am going to go to every stripper and say she is a sinner or a whore or whatever would ticker off and tell her to go get a real job. Now I can't do that. I wouldn't want to. She has a right to chose whatever job she wants -- however, the people I know that are in the job are not there because they have a high self esteem about their bodies -- they are there because they lack the job skills to do anything else. Are they all like that? No. A good number of them? Possibly.
People do impose their morals on them when you suggest that they are "degrading themselves" by taking these jobs. And when one suggests that these women MUST have poor self esteem to take these jobs again that is one person's belief or morality that cause that job to be embarssing to that individual and not necessarialy the person in that job who in all probabilty has HIGH self esteem to show off her body.
And that they are forced into these jobs because society doesnt allow women to make the same pay as men is such a ludicrious assumption I cant even begin to argue it, especailly with the extreme payment the women can make at these jobs.
And again whether or not the whole huntforbambi thing WAS true or not...
lets say it was
if the women wanted to do it..thats their deal. The men paying the 10grand, well I agree they're assholes...but I also believe that private planes being flown by wealthy men (and often their young children) is stupid as well and dangerous to others in the sky and often on the ground...all of who are innocent victims and never said "Hey yeah let that rich guy fly a palne in the sky I dont mind the chances he may crash into me"
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I still think I'm going to hurl.
TTT, my fellow archaeologist, if you're reading this I hope I have made you proud!
Eddie Guerrero said
"I've been here before. Backed into a corner, another huge obstacle, time to make a choice. You seem to be a bit preoccupied, Brock. You're not gonna be facing Eddie Guerrero the opponent tonight. You're gonna be facing Latino Heat!! They say there's No Way Out. I can think of at least one, ese (sp?). Can you?"
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[insert non-dated reference here] 10000+ posts
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You have done well, Sideways-san.
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One step towards total enlightenment.  bouncy bouncy bouncy..
Eddie Guerrero said
"I've been here before. Backed into a corner, another huge obstacle, time to make a choice. You seem to be a bit preoccupied, Brock. You're not gonna be facing Eddie Guerrero the opponent tonight. You're gonna be facing Latino Heat!! They say there's No Way Out. I can think of at least one, ese (sp?). Can you?"
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