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Republicans Push Ahead to Extend Tax Cuts. Quote:
Those measures include the $1,000 per child tax credit, which was scheduled to drop to $700 next year; tax breaks for married couples; and continuation of an expanded 10 percent tax rate that means lower tax bills for virtually all taxpayers because it a bigger portion of earnings would be taxed at the lowest rate. All thee current provisions are due to expire this year.
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Good. More money for citizens to buy automatic weapons, so they can fight off all the terrorists hiding in their bushes...... 
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Can't I just use the money I might get to go towards buying a house? I'm sick of checking the neighbors' bushes for terrorists. I want my own!
Uschi said:I won't rape you, I'll just fuck you 'till it hurts and then not stop and you'll cry. MisterJLA: RACKS so hard, he called Jim Rome "Chris Everett." In Him, all porn is possible. He is far above mentions in so-called "blogs." RACK him, lest ye be lost! "I can't even brush my teeth without gagging!" - Tommy Tantillo: Wank & Cry, heckpuppy, and general laughingstock ![[Linked Image from i6.photobucket.com]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/JoeMama13/RedSoxBanner05.png)
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Good. More money for citizens to buy automatic weapons, so they can fight off all the terrorists hiding in their bushes......
Or game CDs! Or perhaps a car--*gasp* Maybe even a motorized thing-a-majig-whats-a-mawhozits!! 
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Or groceries diapers shooling...
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Some of those are not bad cuts but I think that top 1 percent can go back to the Clinton rates. 
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Some of those are not bad cuts but I think that top 1 percent can go back to the Clinton rates.
Why?
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Because it worked very well in the 90's.
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This morning, ABC news referred to these tax cuts as the "middle class tax cuts." These aren't the so-called "tax cuts for the rich."
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.....i never realized i was considered in the upper class till i bought my kids school clothes with my extra tax refund the last 2 years and i saw on tv that the rich were the ones who benefited from them.....
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Because it worked very well in the 90's.
meaning? What I'm asking is why should we tax the ritch so excessivly did they do something wrong? Are they less entitled to the money they earn? Is success wrong?
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Because it worked very well in the 90's.
meaning? What I'm asking is why should we tax the ritch so excessivly did they do something wrong? Are they less entitled to the money they earn? Is success wrong?
Were they taxed so bad in 90's? Seemed like everyone did pretty good. That tax isn't a punishment, it's just the government is running up a tab. At some point it will be paid. Should it be shifted more to the middle?
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Or maybe our representatives in Congress should spend less money on themselves to free up some cash. How about that retirement plan they've got going? They don't put in one red cent, but they're happy letting the taxpayers foot the bill after they give up politics.
We should concentrate less on taxing the hell out of our citizens (both rich and middle class) and more on keeping our legislators from spending them on useless projects like the Big Dig in Boston.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Because it worked very well in the 90's.
meaning? What I'm asking is why should we tax the ritch so excessivly did they do something wrong? Are they less entitled to the money they earn? Is success wrong?
Were they taxed so bad in 90's? Seemed like everyone did pretty good. That tax isn't a punishment, it's just the government is running up a tab. At some point it will be paid. Should it be shifted more to the middle?
No, but if we have to we could also cut some of our more useless programs. I'm in favor of the "fair tax" plan that has even the president talking about it. The taxes we have now tax earnings. You tell me why a person should pay a higher PECENt of thier earnings just because they're more successfull? I agree they should pay a higher amount, but not a higher %. Oh and things did so well in teh 90's because of the tech boom and the .coms, not BECAUSE we taxed wealthier people a higher %. You make it sound as if rich people prospered because they were being taxed at a higher rate.
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Oh here's another question. What do you think would be the highest reasonable tax rate and at what earning leel should people start to be taxed at that rate?
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Me in 2004!
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"4 more years"
is how long I'll spend sitting on this!
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Yer just jellous 'cause you're poor so you don't get any tax cuts. Get a job you hobo!
Me in 2004!
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I couldn't resist. That photo always cracks me up.
....not the crack you know, Georgie.
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Yer just jellous 'cause you're poor so you can't afford any coke. Get a job you hobo!
Me in 2004!
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Quote:
George W. Bush said:
Yer just jellous 'cause you're poor so you can't afford any coke.
It's true.... 
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
No, but if we have to we could also cut some of our more useless programs. I'm in favor of the "fair tax" plan that has even the president talking about it. The taxes we have now tax earnings. You tell me why a person should pay a higher PECENt of thier earnings just because they're more successfull? I agree they should pay a higher amount, but not a higher %. Oh and things did so well in teh 90's because of the tech boom and the .coms, not BECAUSE we taxed wealthier people a higher %. You make it sound as if rich people prospered because they were being taxed at a higher rate.
Somebody in the 1 percent category have benefits that you will never have, just because they are super rich. They will get better medical treatment. They will get better deals on loans. They have more power over our elected officials. etc etc Not really fair is it? And I would argue that they did benefit in the 90's because more & more of the middle class started investing in stocks, providing the fuel for those booms.
Kerry supports all those tax cuts you listed at the beginning of this thread BTW.
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Of course, the top 5% of all wage earners already pay over FIFTY percent of all taxes: 
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Quote:
George W. Bush said:
Get a job you hobo!
and thats why I'm voting for you.
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This gives G-man's pie charts some perspective... http://www.moderateindependent.com/v1i15taxnumbers.htmQuote:
...Ok, so there it is. Notice anything? If you are looking at the numbers I am looking at, you will notice a few things.
For starters, look at what percentage of the income 50% of Americans combined earn:Â 13.81%.Â
Where is that number on the chart? He didn't put it there directly, but do the math: if the top 50% earned 86.19% of the income, that means that the other half of Americans - not a small group, we are talking half of us combined - earned only 13.81% of all the income in the nation. That is criminal. Half the nation is being made to work as slave laborers to support the other half.
Right, they don't pay much in taxes, but that is because they DON'T EARN ANYTHING. Look again at Rush's numbers. 1 out of 2 American tax filers takes home less than a pathetic $26,000 a year. And no, that is not even per person. Rush says plainly, "The top 50% were those individuals or couples filing jointly who earned $26,000 and up in 1999." That means the bottom 50% of us - including couples filing jointly - made $25,999 or less per household.
Again, this is HALF OF US COMBINED making less than 14% of all the income, half of our households earning less than $26,000 each.
Now let me point out here that to begin with Rush only talks about "wage earners." Yes, for the sake of this analysis, he is not covering corporate taxes or income at all. He's not covering one of the biggest scams the Republicans run, slashing corporate taxes, increasing the burden on individuals. Nope, that's scam number one in his numbers. But let's not start pointing out that his numbers are entirely misleading, as one would expect from him, just yet. Let's just continue to show that even when he was trying to make his distorted, misleading point, the numbers he chose to give show his points to be completely inaccurate.
Quote:
According to the numbers Rush Limbaugh will run "forever" on his website, proclaiming they show tax cuts for the rich are not only "fair", but required to "balance things out," as he and his buddies regularly claim, the top 1% of us made 20.81 percent of the money. Now compare that to what the first 50% of wage earners make: 12.99 percent for the year 2000.
Notice anything? Notice that half of us combined, half of the nation working for the whole year, not only doesn't make as much as this top 1% of us, they make barely half? Remember, this includes "households filing jointly." Half of the households in this nation, working for a year, don't make combined what just 1 percent of us makes. ...
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And just to put MEM's article in perspective Quote:
that means that the other half of Americans - not a small group, we are talking half of us combined - earned only 13.81% of all the income in the nation. That is criminal.
Criminal? The fact that half of Americans work harder and/or smarter earn more money is "criminal"? Also lets not forget who's included in that bottom 50% highschool kids working part time jobs, retirees working part time for extra spending money, mentally hadicapped people working at good will even though they get governent support, so they have a purpous. House wives with with very part time work. And of course the unemployed, jobless, fellons on work release. Please, fewer than half the people I've ever run into have the work ethic to make more money than they currently do. On teh other 50% we have entrepenures who are creating jobs for the other 50% Even then if the bottom 50% are only making 13% of the money then why are they only paying 4 % of the taxes. I guess if "moderate independants" (translation = liberals) think that success is criminal, then perhaps it makes sence that they want to lead our government into socialism. I may not be one of the top earners in the country, but I would like to be someday, and if you resent that or think it's criminal well, to quote our dear president "get a job you hobo!"
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Quote:
Animalman said:
"4 more years"
is how long I'll spend sitting on this!
[whomod] [/whomod]
Rats!
I'm getting slow in my years. In my youth, this pic would have been up days...WEEKS! ago.......
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My apprentice weakens. 
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I wonder how much benifit Moore gets from Bush's cuts? and I wonder how much he'll pay his accountant to get arround the Kerry's raises if he becomes president.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
And just to put MEM's article in perspective
Quote:
that means that the other half of Americans - not a small group, we are talking half of us combined - earned only 13.81% of all the income in the nation. That is criminal.
Criminal? The fact that half of Americans work harder and/or smarter earn more money is "criminal"? Also lets not forget who's included in that bottom 50% highschool kids working part time jobs, retirees working part time for extra spending money, mentally hadicapped people working at good will even though they get governent support, so they have a purpous. House wives with with very part time work. And of course the unemployed, jobless, fellons on work release. Please, fewer than half the people I've ever run into have the work ethic to make more money than they currently do. On teh other 50% we have entrepenures who are creating jobs for the other 50% Even then if the bottom 50% are only making 13% of the money then why are they only paying 4 % of the taxes. I guess if "moderate independants" (translation = liberals) think that success is criminal, then perhaps it makes sence that they want to lead our government into socialism. I may not be one of the top earners in the country, but I would like to be someday, and if you resent that or think it's criminal well, to quote our dear president "get a job you hobo!"
Not quite sure I see your logic. Your for everyone paying at the same percentage rate but your also for deductions that lessen the amount you pay in. Doesn't that mean others have to pay more to accommodate your tax break? And those at the top shouldn't continue paying a bit more?
OK, long winded ramble...I grew up near a small town that had a canning factory. Kids used to work there summers at minimum wage. Since then a huge amount of immigrants now work those jobs. Many are illegal & there is a sweep made every couple of years. The town use to have one cop, now it has six. The local school use to have one psychiatrist that worked a big chunk of lower MN. Now it has a couple of special ed teachers, a social worker and other costs they didn't use to have. I see one business utilizing a town's resources & pushing it to the limits. It comes down to the owners owing more in taxes not only because they've got more but because they "took" more.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I wonder how much benifit Moore gets from Bush's cuts? and I wonder how much he'll pay his accountant to get arround the Kerry's raises if he becomes president.
Ben Affleck as well as President Clinton commented on this during the DNC onvention. they both admitted that being in the top 1%, they benefitted greatly from the Bush tax cuts. They also both said that they wouldn't mind paying more for the greater good.
We're at war, or so we keep being told. It's amazing that instead of getting America to pull together and ask some measure of sacrifice (as in WWII), we're being asked instead to further bankrupt our economy by draining resources when America needs them the most. To me, that's an act of unbeleivable myopia and selfishness.
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Quote:
Not quite sure I see your logic. Your for everyone paying at the same percentage rate but your also for deductions that lessen the amount you pay in. Doesn't that mean others have to pay more to accommodate your tax break? And those at the top shouldn't continue paying a bit more?
What? that's not at all what I said, I'm for everyone paying te same %, yea, and I don't mind the child tax credit, but where you got the rest from I'll never know. Also I'm ultimately for the "Fair Tax" wich would acctually eliminate all deductions and eliminate the IRS completely, but that's not on the table yet.
Quote:
OK, long winded ramble...I grew up near a small town that had a canning factory. Kids used to work there summers at minimum wage. Since then a huge amount of immigrants now work those jobs. Many are illegal & there is a sweep made every couple of years. The town use to have one cop, now it has six. The local school use to have one psychiatrist that worked a big chunk of lower MN. Now it has a couple of special ed teachers, a social worker and other costs they didn't use to have. I see one business utilizing a town's resources & pushing it to the limits. It comes down to the owners owing more in taxes not only because they've got more but because they "took" more.
OK, and this has to to with a graduaded tax rate how exactly? great story (I guess) but it really doesn't explain anything.
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Quote:
whomod said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I wonder how much benifit Moore gets from Bush's cuts? and I wonder how much he'll pay his accountant to get arround the Kerry's raises if he becomes president.
Ben Affleck as well as President Clinton commented on this during the DNC onvention. they both admitted that being in the top 1%, they benefitted greatly from the Bush tax cuts. They also both said that they wouldn't mind paying more for the greater good.
Good for them, too bad Kerry doesn't share thier position, when he was given the option (as is Mass law) to elect to pay a higher tax rate he declined. People are alwayse allowed to pay more in taxes there is absolutely no limit on the ammount of money you give to the government. On a side note, you think Ben will acctually vote this year or will he just campighn and nver acctually put his name on a ballot like he did in 2000.
Quote:
We're at war, or so we keep being told. It's amazing that instead of getting America to pull together and ask some measure of sacrifice (as in WWII), we're being asked instead to further bankrupt our economy by draining resources when America needs them the most. To me, that's an act of unbeleivable myopia and selfishness.
Well I guess it depends on wether you believe what Kennedy taught us that tax cuts increase revenue. We could also cut waste, but we know that will never happen. Also I have yet to hear that Bush would love to pass a war budget, but unfortunately we're going to give tax cuts. If it ever comes down to an either / or situation I'll of course side with supporting the war. OK, I'm ready for your next smoke screen, lets have it.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Not quite sure I see your logic. Your for everyone paying at the same percentage rate but your also for deductions that lessen the amount you pay in. Doesn't that mean others have to pay more to accommodate your tax break? And those at the top shouldn't continue paying a bit more?
What? that's not at all what I said, I'm for everyone paying te same %, yea, and I don't mind the child tax credit, but where you got the rest from I'll never know. Also I'm ultimately for the "Fair Tax" wich would acctually eliminate all deductions and eliminate the IRS completely, but that's not on the table yet.
Quote:
OK, long winded ramble...I grew up near a small town that had a canning factory. Kids used to work there summers at minimum wage. Since then a huge amount of immigrants now work those jobs. Many are illegal & there is a sweep made every couple of years. The town use to have one cop, now it has six. The local school use to have one psychiatrist that worked a big chunk of lower MN. Now it has a couple of special ed teachers, a social worker and other costs they didn't use to have. I see one business utilizing a town's resources & pushing it to the limits. It comes down to the owners owing more in taxes not only because they've got more but because they "took" more.
OK, and this has to to with a graduaded tax rate how exactly? great story (I guess) but it really doesn't explain anything.
I was giving a personal example how some people at the top are making some money while the community (people that actually live in that town) have to pay more in taxes to provide the services for the growing pool of immigrants.
As for flat taxes, I'm making the assumption that you would want certain deductions. Thus the flat tax not really being flat.
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Quote:
As for flat taxes, I'm making the assumption that you would want certain deductions. Thus the flat tax not really being flat.
It's odd that you would assume that considereing the fact that I specifically said that the tax I perfer eliminates ALL (spelled A-L-L) deductions, I even accented that point by saying it would eliminate the IRS. Finally the "fair tax" isn't a "flat tax" two entirely different beasts.
Oh and about your story, I'm not sure if your logic follows, but I suspect that what you have is an immigration problem, rather than a tax proble, besides the case you gave is hardly the norm and therefore an unconvincing case for a graduated tax rate as a rule.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
As for flat taxes, I'm making the assumption that you would want certain deductions. Thus the flat tax not really being flat.
It's odd that you would assume that considereing the fact that I specifically said that the tax I perfer eliminates ALL (spelled A-L-L) deductions, I even accented that point by saying it would eliminate the IRS. Finally the "fair tax" isn't a "flat tax" two entirely different beasts.
...
So say we earn the same amount. You have 3 kids, I just have 3 cats. Your saying we should pay the same amount in taxes even though you have 3 kids? (Sorry if I'm being dense)
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So, MEM, what you are saying is that we should discriminate against people who are incapable of bearing children, or women who exercise thier constitutional right not not to procreate, by taxing them more?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
So, MEM, what you are saying is that we should discriminate against people who are incapable of bearing children, or women who exercise thier constitutional right not not to procreate, by taxing them more?
Well, I'm actually asking WBAM for clarification but yeah I think those of us that can afford it can pay a bit more. Not to discriminate but for the greater good. Not in amounts that actually cause harm to the country or individuals but sensable rates work (like we had)
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Quote:
but yeah I think those of us that can afford it can pay a bit more. Not to discriminate but for the greater good
So, in essence, you freely admit that you want to financially penalize women for exercising their right to "choice," and will couch it under "the greater good"
EVERYbody thinks their particular pet form of discrimination is "for the greater good."
The people that said women shouldn't vote thought it was "for the greater good."
The rednecks in the south thought that "Jim Crow" laws were "for the greater good."
Your willingness to rob women of choice is surpising, given your usually reliable liberal tendencies.
Last edited by the G-man; 2004-09-28 12:43 AM.
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G-man your just being silly. We all benefit as a nation, when the family unit is doing well IMHO. Now let's talk about your endorsement of recreational abortion
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