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The conscience of the rkmbs!
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Yes.

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Really. No.

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some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm?
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Bush going down in flames.

Film at 11.

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Fair Play!
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At least somebody told him to smile, although it's looking more like a grimace tonight.


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Fair Play!
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Somebody should let Bush know what the minimium wage is here in America.


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Officially "too old for this shit"
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Funny. I thought Bush did poorly in the first Debate, but I think he is doing well tonight

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He did well. He outlined more as to what he did than what he will do, but this is opposed to Kerry's continued vagueness and attempts to keep Bush on the defensive.

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Quote:

whomod said:
Bush going down in flames.

Film at 11.




And I'm sure you'll link us to some "moveon.org" images to prove this.


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Fair Play!
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I think the President needed to clearly win this one. He did do better than his first one but I don't think he won this one. He ducked many of the jobs questions by talking about education almost exclusively. On questions like the assualt weapons ban, Kerry didn't just give a good answer but showed the Presidents failure to fight for something that was right.

BTW President Bush's false statements about Kerry's voting record on taxes is way off. 96 votes to raise taxes in Bushinese actually translates to 6 times in 20 yrs according to tonights channel 4 news.


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I'm Bush, like Kerry, is prepped for many hours before a debate. Do they give him false information, or is he just making this shit up? That's the third time Kerry has jumped all over false allegations against his senate record.

I think Bush was destroyed in the first debate, the second debate was almost a tie, and in this 3rd debate Bush seemed to regress back to the first debate. It must be hell preparing this guy. Wait, it must be hard work...

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Uh.......Okaaaaay.

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Quote:

JQ said:
I'm Bush




I knew it!


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This most recent debate was night and day from teh first. I think Bush did very well. Kerry seemed to get tripped up alot more than he did before. Even PBS said Bush did really well.


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Early poll gives Kerry the edge in final debate

TEMPE, Arizona (CNN) -- Sen. John Kerry appeared to gain more momentum heading toward November 2, easily beating President Bush in the third and final debate, a poll taken late Wednesday night suggests.

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup snap poll taken immediately after the presidential debate found that respondents gave a significant edge to Kerry over Bush, 52 percent to 39 percent.

The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 5 percentage points.

The numbers were similar to the results of a poll taken the night of the first debate September 30 in Miami, Florida. That night Kerry was favored by a 53 percent to 37 percent margin.

Kerry and Bush were almost even in the second debate on October 5, with the numbers falling with the margin of error.

The respondents Wednesday were 511 registered voters who watched the debate. Their political affiliations broke down as 36 percent Republican, 36 percent Democratic and 28 percent independent.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/snap.poll/index.html


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i wouldn't trust that poll.

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I only watched the second one and I get the feeling I watched the worst. They both seemed to just reiterate the party line and say nothing new.

Anyone been swung by the debates?

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Here's an interesting editorial about presidential debates and the way the media treats them.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...mediaanddebates

Quote:

THE MEDIA AND DEBATES
By Gerald Boyd

Few practices make my head spin like the media's preoccupation with declaring a winner in presidential and vice presidential debates.

The custom is now as common as the negative attack advertising both campaigns are using and just as damaging to the process of selecting the commander in chief.

News organizations just can't shake an instinct to dwell on who's winning. Presenting meaningless horse race numbers as big-time news does that. At best such polls serve as a snapshot -- one that will unlikely hold true come Election Day. This year, the horse race numbers show the contest between George Bush (news - web sites) and John Kerry (news - web sites) as a virtual dead heat. So how illuminating is it to know that Kerry is a percentage point or two ahead of Bush or that Bush was once a few points ahead of Kerry?

The effort by many in the media to declare a winner in the two debates already held and the two more now scheduled is even more mind-boggling.

One reason involves the "evidence" used to support the declaration. That has included instant polls taken almost before the candidates depart the stage, or focus groups of "ordinary" Americans, who offer their immediate reactions. Of course, countless numbers of political experts and reporters also have presented their views, opining non-stop in recent days.

To me, these immediate reactions have all the appeal of a cup of instant coffee, at a time when I crave one from Starbucks. Few voters, I believe, reach a decision on choosing a president based on 90 minutes of verbal jostling, especially when the two candidates are repeating points they have already made, again and again.

So what if Bush's facial expressions and demeanor during the first debate showed stress and strain on his part? Will that register more with voters than the blistering attacks that he and other Republicans are now firing at Kerry, in print, on television, on the Internet, in books and in any other media outlet available? At the same time, will voters really elect a president based on the fact that Dick Cheney (news - web sites) beat John Edwards (news - web sites) in the view of some experts, or that the contest ended in a draw according to others? I don't think so.

What troubles me most about this tendency is that it fails to reflect what debates are really about these days. Presidential contests have changed enormously since the first presidential debate between Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy in 1960. Debates are now tactical instruments, like advertising, getting out the vote, or focusing on specific states that will decide the election, as Kerry and Bush are now doing.

The candidates come to such events with a layered agenda. It might include firing up the base so they go to the polls or scoring points with a particular constituency, such as white males, soccer moms, African-Americans or Hispanics in the Southwest.

Issues like verbal gaffes and demeanor matter, but only when they reinforce perceptions already planted in voters' minds. Michael Dukakis was regarded as soft on crime before his 1988 debate with George H.W. Bush, and his performance only buttressed that view. And the elderly Bush was already considered an elitist before his performance in the 1992 debate with Bill Clinton (news - web sites) suggested that he was out of touch with some Americans.

At best, a successful debate performance might win over some voters, but not large numbers of them. The real debate winner is the candidate who accomplishes what his actual objectives were going into the contest, which are not always apparent or what the media proclaim.

Unfortunately, the media's need to declare a victor has made these debates a game of spin more than anything else. And the spinning starts even before the candidates utter their first words and doesn't stop until the last journalist leaves the building. Some networks are refusing to air such spin, but most feast on it. That's good for them, but not very wholesome for the public.




Nothing we haven't heard before, but it still makes for interesting reading.


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I don't see how one 'wins' a debate.

Actually, I like how both groups presented their viewpoints. Kerry and Bush were very clear with what they would do if they were elected. If you know how you feel about government role and government spending, pretty good chance you picked your president last night.

Quote:

And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way they want to live.

And that's to be honored.




If you had bet me money that Bush would ever saw something like like, I'd be broke right now. Dang.

Nothing beats John Kerry saying 'We are all God's children'. Oh that was rich.


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I THOUGHT BUSH SAYING "CONSENTING ADULTS CAN LIVE THE WAY THEY WANT TO LIVE" WAS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST LINES OF THE NIGHT.

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Quote:

Wednesday said:
I THOUGHT BUSH SAYING "CONSENTING ADULTS CAN LIVE THE WAY THEY WANT TO LIVE" WAS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST LINES OF THE NIGHT.




All caps, eh? so why was that the funniest line fo the night?


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Quote:

Matter-eater Man said:
BTW President Bush's false statements about Kerry's voting record on taxes is way off. 96 votes to raise taxes in Bushinese actually translates to 6 times in 20 yrs according to tonights channel 4 news.




That's the thing that amazes me. There were times that Kerry supported raising taxes, and he had to vote for each raise more than once. So, the actual number of taxes Kerry supported doesn't even come close the number President Bush wants us to believe. Talk about spin.

I thought both cadidates did a great job in getting their points across. Kerry spoke more to me than the President did. I expected that. I also expected the President to handle this debate a lot better than the first two. He did. He was Presidential. So was Kerry. Before, I liked Kerry. Now, I can really see him as my President. He handled the President's attempts to spin his words and his platform very well. This was actually the first time he countered the President's attacks on his record. I am disapointed that he did not do this before, but it had a bigger impact on me now, because he had already done a great job of outlining many of his plans in the last debate, and he had the time to defend himself.

But, at the same time, I can see the President's supporters saying how he won the debate. I don't think there was a clear winner here. Niether candidate looked out of place. Both candidates said what they needed to say. I do think Kerry was stronger on more issues than Bush was, but like I said, Kerry spoke to me, so of course I'm going to walk away saying that.

I think it can be argued that Kerry won the first debate, because the President did not look at all prepared for that one. I also think it can be argued that Kerry edged the second debate, because the President did lose his cool a bit in that one. This time, I think this may have been a draw.


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Quote:

wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:

Wednesday said:
I THOUGHT BUSH SAYING "CONSENTING ADULTS CAN LIVE THE WAY THEY WANT TO LIVE" WAS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST LINES OF THE NIGHT.




All caps, eh? so why was that the funniest line fo the night?



BECAUSE PRESIDENT BUSH IS FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION BANNING MARRIAGE BETWEEN TWO CONSENTING HOMOSEXUAL ADULTS.

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What does it prove to say that the true statement of how many times Kerry voted to raise taxes includes voting for the same tax increase more than once? Why not give some examples of Kerry voting for tax cuts or even voting against tax inceases? It's like all the hype about the fact that Cheney was at a prayer breakfast with Edwards..... well, he still never showed up to vote in the senate. Kerry's record on the senate florr has been abysmal durring the capaign too the only time he gets arround to vote is to protect abortions.


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Quote:

Wednesday said:
Quote:

wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:

Wednesday said:
I THOUGHT BUSH SAYING "CONSENTING ADULTS CAN LIVE THE WAY THEY WANT TO LIVE" WAS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST LINES OF THE NIGHT.




All caps, eh? so why was that the funniest line fo the night?



BECAUSE PRESIDENT BUSH IS FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION BANNING MARRIAGE BETWEEN TWO CONSENTING HOMOSEXUAL ADULTS.




They can still live the way they want to live, they can even get married, they just can't get government recognition of said marraige. There is a radical difference between "banning' something and simply not endorsing it.


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That doesn’t actually relate to your question about why it was funny. Hope you’re not dodging the question there!

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Quote:

wannabuyamonkey said:
What does it prove to say that the true statement of how many times Kerry voted to raise taxes includes voting for the same tax increase more than once? Why not give some examples of Kerry voting for tax cuts or even voting against tax inceases? It's like all the hype about the fact that Cheney was at a prayer breakfast with Edwards..... well, he still never showed up to vote in the senate. Kerry's record on the senate florr has been abysmal durring the capaign too the only time he gets arround to vote is to protect abortions.




Point is, it's a brilliant spin. That's all. Except, the networks have finally picked up on it, and last night it was finally explained. In English.


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Quote:

wannabuyamonkey said:
They can still live the way they want to live, they can even get married, they just can't get government recognition of said marraige. There is a radical difference between "banning' something and simply not endorsing it.



THEY CAN GET MARRIED BUT THEY CAN'T GET GOVERNMENT RECOGNITION OF SAID MARRIAGE...

WHAT?

YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BANNING SOMETHING AND NOT ENDORSING IT. BUSH WANTS TO BAN IT. KERRY WON'T ENDORSE IT.

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Quote:

Wednesday said:
Quote:

wannabuyamonkey said:
They can still live the way they want to live, they can even get married, they just can't get government recognition of said marraige. There is a radical difference between "banning' something and simply not endorsing it.



THEY CAN GET MARRIED BUT THEY CAN'T GET GOVERNMENT RECOGNITION OF SAID MARRIAGE...

WHAT?

YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BANNING SOMETHING AND NOT ENDORSING IT. BUSH WANTS TO BAN IT. KERRY WON'T ENDORSE IT.




No Bush doesn't want to ban it, he just doesn't want to offer government endorsement.


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Bush supports the amendment banning gay marriage. How is that not banning it?

Not to devalue the act of stating your love, which is certainly important, but in today's society(and this is something I think Bush either fails to understand, or simply ignores), marriage is a lot more than a symbolic union. There's really not much of a point in getting married if the government(as well as insurance companies) won't recognize it.


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Love's important in the policy of a should be secular government?

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Ther will be no more debates until the next election.


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Actually, Kerry's the one trying to pass the "global test".

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Quote:

Pariah said:
Actually, Kerry's the one trying to pass the "global test".




zing!


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that's the difference, i suppose. i thought jq's was a better zing.

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Reuters

Schwarzenegger Says Kerry, Bush Evasive in Debate
Thu Oct 14, 2004 07:45 PM ET

    SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, in candor rare in a heated political season, said on Thursday he was disappointed that both President Bush and Sen. John Kerry had evaded questions in their final campaign debate.
    "Both of them did not answer some of the questions, which I think is upsetting to me," Schwarzenegger told KGO radio in San Francisco. "I think it is much better to be straightforward with the people."

    "I mean if you get a question about Iran and about the nuclear power and what you are going to do in the future with this nuclear power, and you don't even answer that question, I think it's a mistake, You know like Kerry did," he continued. "Bush did the same thing in some instances, not really get into it and answer it."

    Schwarzenegger, a Republican, backs Bush but has shied away from campaigning for him in recent weeks. Instead he is urging people to vote against two California initiatives that would expand gambling.

    Partisan politicians seldom give candid assessments of the debates as they hope to boost the public perception about their favored candidate. Yet Schwarzenegger is mindful that he serves a state with a Democratic majority very likely to back Kerry on Nov. 2.

    "I think both of the candidates did extremely well yesterday," said Schwarzenegger, who has only been in office less than a year. "Because it was the third debate, they were much more with it, both of them."

    Bush was not so good in the first debate, Schwarzenegger told KGO, but "now the whole thing is really swinging in his favor again."

    Asked in a later radio interview why he was not campaigning with Bush, Schwarzenegger said he was asked to do so by the White House but was focusing on the problems of California.

    "I don't want to travel around the country really," he told KABC in Los Angeles. "That's not what they people want me to do. They want me to stay here and do my job."

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Quote:

Pariah said:
Actually, Kerry's the one trying to pass the "global test".




Yeah...'cause Dubbya already failed it miserably. Didn't you see his grade?


And that's terrible.
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Quote:

Wednesday said:
Reuters

Schwarzenegger Says Kerry, Bush Evasive in Debate
Thu Oct 14, 2004 07:45 PM ET

    SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, in candor rare in a heated political season, said on Thursday he was disappointed that both President Bush and Sen. John Kerry had evaded questions in their final campaign debate.
    "Both of them did not answer some of the questions, which I think is upsetting to me," Schwarzenegger told KGO radio in San Francisco. "I think it is much better to be straightforward with the people."

    "I mean if you get a question about Iran and about the nuclear power and what you are going to do in the future with this nuclear power, and you don't even answer that question, I think it's a mistake, You know like Kerry did," he continued. "Bush did the same thing in some instances, not really get into it and answer it."

    Schwarzenegger, a Republican, backs Bush but has shied away from campaigning for him in recent weeks. Instead he is urging people to vote against two California initiatives that would expand gambling.

    Partisan politicians seldom give candid assessments of the debates as they hope to boost the public perception about their favored candidate. Yet Schwarzenegger is mindful that he serves a state with a Democratic majority very likely to back Kerry on Nov. 2.

    "I think both of the candidates did extremely well yesterday," said Schwarzenegger, who has only been in office less than a year. "Because it was the third debate, they were much more with it, both of them."

    Bush was not so good in the first debate, Schwarzenegger told KGO, but "now the whole thing is really swinging in his favor again."

    Asked in a later radio interview why he was not campaigning with Bush, Schwarzenegger said he was asked to do so by the White House but was focusing on the problems of California.

    "I don't want to travel around the country really," he told KABC in Los Angeles. "That's not what they people want me to do. They want me to stay here and do my job."





CROM!


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