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So what are people’s expectations about tonight’s debate?
Cheney and Edwards are very different men, one with a long standing history in government and a relative newcomer.
It seems reasonable to assume Cheney is going to perform a lot better than Bush did, but what about Edwards? He’s fairly popular I believe, with some expectation that he will himself make a play for the White House in the future (if he tries too soon Hilary may have to have him killed to he should bide his time). What is his history as a speaker?
Thoughts people.
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I hoping it gets ugly. A fast talking lawyer versus a cranky old man. It could be very entertaining.
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On the readio they said it was like Darth Vader vs. Robin! and given the high pitched way they said Robin I don't think it was a comliment as many of us fanboys would have interpreted it.
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Ouch.
I might try and remember to record this one. I have no sound at work and 56k at home so I haven't seen the first one and I find the concept fascinating. I'd like them to introduce it in the UK.
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Quote:
Steve T said:
What is his history as a speaker?
He's a lawyer...
And that's terrible.
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Cheney kicked some serious ass.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Cheney kicked some serious ass.
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Most of the instant polls I've seen point to Edwards as the winner, some by a long shot. One says Cheney won by a very small margin. A few (two of twelve) indicate it was about a tie.
I haven't seen it yet. I'll watch it later today.
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The feedback on the BBC had a pretty even split.
Amazing how many pepople thought it was a clear victory to one candidate with the next post stating a clear victory in the opposite direction.
I looked at the summary on Fox and it seemed like they mainlky raked over the same old arguments everyone has heard. That's not gonna swing many voters.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Most of the instant polls I've seen point to Edwards as the winner, some by a long shot. One says Cheney won by a very small margin. A few (two of twelve) indicate it was about a tie.
I haven't seen it yet. I'll watch it later today.
Wednesday!
I saw it. Things were more evenly matched if you look at what was said. The way I see it, if people say Edwards won it's based more on personality and looks than content.
But I agree with Steve. Neither one said anything to catch my swing vote.
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Quote:
whomod said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
Cheney kicked some serious ass.
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I think Cheney nailed Edwards on his and Kerry's Senate records and their stance on Iraq. Personally, I think he blew holes in Kerry's statements that he was going to be able to get foreign countries to help by pointing out that you can't convince them to lend support when you're constantly telling everyone that Iraq was the "Wrong war, wrong time." I was really surprised by Edwards when he began interrupting Cheney. I thought a lawyer would have a bit more sense of procedure.
But Edwards did rally back during discussions of domestic issues. I give a lot of this to the point that he actually had answers to certain topics rather than the "We'll do better" approach he had on Iraq. He had actual answers even though I didn't agree with some of them.
So, overall, it was a tie. I don't think any swing voters even stayed tuned in for too long after the opening. It was a rather tame debate.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Poster Child said:
Wednesday!
I saw it. Things were more evenly matched if you look at what was said. The way I see it, if people say Edwards won it's based more on personality and looks than content.
But I agree with Steve. Neither one said anything to catch my swing vote.
PC, my bitch! You made it  .
About time.
I still haven't seen it. Stoopid classes.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
It was a rather tame debate.
I've heard the opposite. Everybody's saying they really went at each other like two presidential candidates can't.
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There were a few blows traded close to the beginning (mostly on Iraq, and Edwards even mentioned Haliburton); but, overall, they were very friendly and calm. I am of course talking about how they each spoke in tone and not exactly what was said. I think most people wanted to see a shouting match, which was, for the most part, avoided.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
whomod said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
Cheney kicked some serious ass.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Cheney won hands down. The thing that hurt Edwards teh most was his poor record of attendance. There were a number of times when Edwards would go on and on as to what needs to be done on an issue and Cheney just replied with well we voted on that one in the Senate and youi weren't there. He also seemed very nervous, tearing pieces of paper acting childishly defensive and pointing constantly at Cheney and the moderator (if you don't know why it's wrong to point then there's no point in debating it). There was even a point where the moderator accidently started to ask Edwards a second question in a row and when Cheney reminded her it was his turn she agknoledged that she had asked Edwards the last question and added "The question was about Isreal, even though Sen. Edwards didn't talk about it at all" Edwards intereupted in the must frantic juvinile way with " did too, Cheney was the one who didn't talk about it!"
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Last night's debate was like the end of "The Empire Strikes Back." Darth Vader chopped off the fresh faced kid's hand, told him "I'm your daddy," and sent him down a chute into near-certain oblivion. 
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Cheney embarrassed and outclassed Edwards.
Edwards was in way over his head, and he knew it.
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I didn't think either of them was a clear winner, 'cause they both danced around questions and avoided direct answers in an almost comical fashion. wbam mentioned how Edwards did it, there was also a point where Cheney took himself on a tangent about education, and when it was Edwards' time for rebuttal, he was like "...the question was about jobs and poverty, right?"
If I had to pick a winner, though, it would have been Cheney, which is why the instant pollings following the debate surprised me(even 120,000 Fox News viewers gave it to Edwards, 53%-46%, with 1% actually taking the time to log on and vote "I was watching baseball"). Cheney got in more effective digs, especially early on before it looked like he was about to nod off near the end.
I was told by someone that Edwards could've torn Cheney a new one when he was bragging about the '84 El Salvador elections, but I guess Edwards didn't read up on that situation. I don't know anything about it, either, so I wouldn't know...
And that's terrible.
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Hell with the debate - there's division series going on this week!
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Last night's debate was like the end of "The Empire Strikes Back."
Darth Vader chopped off the fresh faced kid's hand, told him "I'm your daddy," and sent him down a chute into near-certain oblivion.
Actually, Luke launched himself off the platform into the windtube so he could live to fight another day.
He fixes the cable?
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Quote:
TK-069 said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Last night's debate was like the end of "The Empire Strikes Back."
Darth Vader chopped off the fresh faced kid's hand, told him "I'm your daddy," and sent him down a chute into near-certain oblivion.
Actually, Luke launched himself off the platform into the windtube so he could live to fight another day.
Yea, but Edwards didn't
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"Your skills are impressive. But you are not a Jedi yet."
He got his proverbial hand chopped off... let's see what happens now.
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Then it's not like the Empire Strikes Back.
Cheney's a superb speaker, but I'm not sure I'd say it was a lanslide either way.
Really, the only reason I thought Kerry "won" the debate last week was because of how bad Bush looked and acted. Both Edwards and Cheney remained composed, and said what they wanted to say(albeit in typical politician double-speak).
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
Kristogar Velo said:
If I had to pick a winner, though, it would have been Cheney, which is why the instant pollings following the debate surprised me(even 120,000 Fox News viewers gave it to Edwards, 53%-46%, with 1% actually taking the time to log on and vote "I was watching baseball").
There has been documented an effort by the DNC and their support groups to flood each instant poll after the debate with pro-Dem votes.
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Yes...I checked the MSN and Yahoo polls after the deabte, and I seriously doubt they were legit.
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It was a close debate but I think Cheney won. His voice & manner was more relaxed. It might have been a clearer win if Cheney had actually been factually correct but todays news deflated many of his verbal haymakers. Edwards did a good job and showed everybody that he is quite capable of the job. (except maybe for Cheney & some Republicans that are still looking for those WMD's)
Fair play!
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Quote:
It might have been a clearer win if Cheney had actually been factually correct but todays news deflated many of his verbal haymakers.
Such as? It's easier if you just come out and make your accusations instead of just alluding to them. Perhaps you want them to hang in the air a little while before being rebutted?
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Not having met Edwards before, not having connected 9/11 to Saddam, a total distortion of Edward's voting record and as with President Bush, he tried misplacing criticism towards him onto our troops.
Fair play!
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Not having met Edwards before, not having connected 9/11 to Saddam, a total distortion of Edward's voting record and as with President Bush, he tried misplacing criticism towards him onto our troops.
awwww, the shakey head, I DO feel ashamed.
Well, in context Cheney proboblly could have worded things better, but his point remains that they didn't interact professionally, pointing out that Edwards has the worst record n the senate in regards to attendance. And when exactly did Cheney say that Saddam was involved in teh attacks on 9-11?
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If the best the Dems can come up with to discredit Cheney is that Edwards' record at breakfast is more memorable than his record in the Senate, I think we can call this a win for the VP
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On the other hand, Cheney's claim -- that he never suggested a connection between Iraq and the September 11 attacks -- is false. On September 14, 2003, Cheney said the following on NBC's Meet the Press: "If we're successful in Iraq, if we can stand up a good representative government in Iraq, that secures the region so that it never again becomes a threat to its neighbors or to the United States, so it's not pursuing weapons of mass destruction, so that it's not a safe haven for terrorists, now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9-11." http://mediamatters.org/items/200410060006Moreover, Cheney has been one of the administration's strongest proponents of a piece of highly disputed intelligence about 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta. "It's been pretty well confirmed that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack," Cheney said on Meet the Press in December 2001. (After the 9/11 commission report disputed the reliability of this intelligence — stating "No evidence has been found that Atta was in the Czech Republic in April 2001" — Cheney denied ever having said the intelligence was "pretty well confirmed." "No, I never said that," Cheney said.) http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/vp_fact_check_041006-1.htmlCheney & Edwards have met on several occasions, even appearing on Meet the Press together.(How much time does Cheney have for Democrats BTW?) Sorry guys, it would have been a good line if it had had any basis in truth. So Cheney told some whoppers with conviction, practice makes perfect I guess.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
On the other hand, Cheney's claim -- that he never suggested a connection between Iraq and the September 11 attacks -- is false. On September 14, 2003, Cheney said the following on NBC's Meet the Press: "If we're successful in Iraq, if we can stand up a good representative government in Iraq, that secures the region so that it never again becomes a threat to its neighbors or to the United States, so it's not pursuing weapons of mass destruction, so that it's not a safe haven for terrorists, now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9-11."
http://mediamatters.org/items/200410060006
Moreover, Cheney has been one of the administration's strongest proponents of a piece of highly disputed intelligence about 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta. "It's been pretty well confirmed that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack," Cheney said on Meet the Press in December 2001.
(After the 9/11 commission report disputed the reliability of this intelligence — stating "No evidence has been found that Atta was in the Czech Republic in April 2001" — Cheney denied ever having said the intelligence was "pretty well confirmed." "No, I never said that," Cheney said.)
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/vp_fact_check_041006-1.html
Cheney & Edwards have met on several occasions, even appearing on Meet the Press together.(How much time does Cheney have for Democrats BTW?) Sorry guys, it would have been a good line if it had had any basis in truth.
So Cheney told some whoppers with conviction, practice makes perfect I guess.
And it looks like yo're not above stretching credulity for a good one liner either.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Last night's debate was like the end of "The Empire Strikes Back."
Darth Vader chopped off the fresh faced kid's hand, told him "I'm your daddy," and sent him down a chute into near-certain oblivion.
Funny you say this. I always made the analogy of my good-natured Republican friends that they were like hard-working folks that were affiliated with the Empire. They had jobs, building the death star putting food on their families tables. Little did they know that they were employed by the most powerful, evil and sinister fucks in the entire universe.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
And it looks like yo're not above stretching credulity for a good one liner either.
Since I backed up what I said with Cheney quotes I'm curious where any stretching on my part occurred. Please explain.
Fair play!
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
And it looks like yo're not above stretching credulity for a good one liner either.
Since I backed up what I said with Cheney quotes I'm curious where any stretching on my part occurred. Please explain.
Because you made it sound as though Cheney said those things durring the debate in spite of the recent evidence, Besides you took his quotes out of context. He was wrong about the Atta thing, I guess, but his other statements aren't contrary to anything else that's been said.
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OK, since I don't really like politics at all, I have to ask this question:
Do you support the person's ideals for your respective party, or are you just supporting them because they're associated with your party?
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