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This is a thread for ShazamGrrl to get it all off her chest.
Besides, I want to hear the famous story about him using your idea.
Last edited by Rob Kamphausen; 2004-11-24 5:28 AM.
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I sent her a PM saying that we already have a Chris Oakley on this forum. She hasn't posted since then.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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What a shame. I wanted to hear the basis of the story about the dispute between her and Johns.
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I sent the PM yesterday, so she might just not have returned yet.
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She mighta gone out of town for the holiday. . .
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jesus christ. i've had enough of this shit
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Geoff Johns good, Winick bad.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
backwards7 said:
jesus christ. i've had enough of this shit
actually dave started the topic, they dont even resemble each other.
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Quote:
King Snarf said:
Geoff Johns good, Winick bad.
I concur.
Uschi said:I won't rape you, I'll just fuck you 'till it hurts and then not stop and you'll cry. MisterJLA: RACKS so hard, he called Jim Rome "Chris Everett." In Him, all porn is possible. He is far above mentions in so-called "blogs." RACK him, lest ye be lost! "I can't even brush my teeth without gagging!" - Tommy Tantillo: Wank & Cry, heckpuppy, and general laughingstock ![[Linked Image from i6.photobucket.com]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/JoeMama13/RedSoxBanner05.png)
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My take on Johns is somewhere in the middle. He does some good work on some books, most notably the silver-agish DC stuff (ie, Flash, Green Lantern Rebirth). But doesn't seem to have a feel for Marvel stuff (ie, Avengers) at all.
Still, on average, I'd rather read his stuff than other "hot creators" Rucka, Bendis, Winnick and/or Loeb.
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
Quote:
backwards7 said:
jesus christ. i've had enough of this shit
actually dave started the topic, they dont even resemble each other.
If I don't shave for a few days and wear leather sandals, I do somewhat resemble the Messiah.
My only exposure to Johns' work was JLA/JSA - Virtue and Vice, which I thought was miserably written, with large plot holes, silly plot devices, and terrible, terrible dialogue and characterisation. Add a big chunk of homely nostalgia which seems to be Johns' stock in trade in JSA, and I thought the entire books blew chunks in a way parallelled only by Pacific Rim volcanoes.
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I recently read the Identity Crisis tie-in issue of Flash which is the largest part of my knowledge of Johns' work. I've heard both the good and the bad, though, so I'm willing to find out for myself to get the real skinny on whether I enjoy him or not.
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Quote:
Dave said:
My only exposure to Johns' work was JLA/JSA - Virtue and Vice, which I thought was miserably written, with large plot holes, silly plot devices, and terrible, terrible dialogue and characterisation.
I didn't hate it that much, but I agree it was wildly overrated.
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The art was great htough. I didn't notice the deficiencies in the story until the second read.
He rights alot better when he isn't trying to be so nostalgic.
Titans is pretty good.
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Ahh, I see you've been listening to Food Eater Lad's usual line of bullshit, which he uses whenever he can't, or rather won't, get his facts straight.
BTW, it was not my "story" and it was NOT actually stolen; it was an outline for a Captain Marvel Jr., story that a gent called astro_citizen posted on the old DCMBs, and the "arc" that it's SIMILAR TO has been reprinted in the "JSA: Savage Times" TPB.
Shortly after JSA # 44 came out, I wrote a post about the similarites AND the differences between the outline Astro_Citizen write and the "JSABC" arc on the now-defunct Rock of Eternity. The same day, I put up another post, this one stating that I was going to have some fics I wrote taken down from the FauxDC site because the former mod of another SHAZAM! BB stated that I had "plagiarized Jerry Ordway's GN," which wasn't true.
JLAMarvel read both posts, put 2 and 2 together (and got 5), posted a link to the former, spinning it in a rather negative way, and the pitbulls jumped on it
And in case you haven't noticed it, FEL's other usual tactic is stalking people he calls "lying hypocrits" across the Internet JUST to see if they "post anything bad about him."
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Quote:
ShazamGrrl1 said:
BTW, it was not my "story" and it was NOT actually stolen;
But thats what you said. Why would you lie to us?
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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I used to believe in truth. I used to believe in hope.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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I don't know shit about Geoff Johns, but what I do know is that Captain Marvel is a Superman ripoff.
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Geoff johns is the martian manhunter, dumbass.
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Well, hang on, lets just go thorugh this..... Quote:
ShazamGrrl1 said:
Ahh, I see you've been listening to Food Eater Lad's usual line of bullshit, which he uses whenever he can't, or rather won't, get his facts straight.
How does Food Eater Lad come into all of this?
Quote:
BTW, it was not my "story" and it was NOT actually stolen; it was an outline for a Captain Marvel Jr., story that a gent called astro_citizen posted on the old DCMBs, and the "arc" that it's SIMILAR TO has been reprinted in the "JSA: Savage Times" TPB.
What were the points of similarity? I haven't read JSA: Savage Times, so I don't know anything about it. When was astro_citizen's outline published, and when was Savage Times published?
Quote:
Shortly after JSA # 44 came out, I wrote a post about the similarites AND the differences between the outline Astro_Citizen write and the "JSABC" arc on the now-defunct Rock of Eternity.
Do you still have a copy of that?
Quote:
The same day, I put up another post, this one stating that I was going to have some fics I wrote taken down from the FauxDC site because the former mod of another SHAZAM! BB stated that I had "plagiarized Jerry Ordway's GN," which wasn't true.
This is unrelated to the Geoff Johns story?
Quote:
JLAMarvel read both posts, put 2 and 2 together (and got 5), posted a link to the former, spinning it in a rather negative way, and the pitbulls jumped on it
And in case you haven't noticed it, FEL's other usual tactic is stalking people he calls "lying hypocrits" across the Internet JUST to see if they "post anything bad about him."
I gather your beef with Johns is twofold: he maintains a monopoly over the Captain Marvel character and thereby prevents the character getting exposure in other titles (although I do note that Cap has appeared in Superman/Batman not too long ago) as well as this astro_citizen similiarity issue.
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Quote:
Dave said:
Well, hang on, lets just go thorugh this.....
Quote:
ShazamGrrl1 said:
Ahh, I see you've been listening to Food Eater Lad's usual line of bullshit, which he uses whenever he can't, or rather won't, get his facts straight.
How does Food Eater Lad come into all of this?
He's the one who keeps claiming I called Johns a plagiarist.
Quote:
BTW, it was not my "story" and it was NOT actually stolen; it was an outline for a Captain Marvel Jr., story that a gent called astro_citizen posted on the old DCMBs, and the "arc" that it's SIMILAR TO has been reprinted in the "JSA: Savage Times" TPB.
Quote:
What were the points of similarity? I haven't read JSA: Savage Times, so I don't know anything about it. When was astro_citizen's outline published, and when was Savage Times published?
The similarities: a Marvel in ancient Egypt (Cap was with Hawkgirl and Mr. Terrific), Cap not thinking of using the Rock of Eternity to return to the present, not seeking out Shazam for help / advice / whatnot because of the possibility that the old wizard wouldn't know one of his own, having Nabu wrap up like a mummy.
The differences: first & foremost, Astro's outline was for a Captain Marvel Jr. story . Junior was alone, he couldn't use the RoE to return to the present, didn't meet with the old wizard on the slim chance that Shazam might know him, put himself in a deathlike state via biofeedback and left clues for Cap and Mary to find and free him in the present day.
Quote:
Shortly after JSA # 44 came out, I wrote a post about the similarites AND the differences between the outline Astro_Citizen write and the "JSABC" arc on the now-defunct Rock of Eternity.
Quote:
Do you still have a copy of that?
Since I can't figure out if you mean the book or the post, I'm going to guess that you mean both.
The answer to both is no.
I deleted the posts on the RoE because I got tired of FEL and his faithful pooch patchwork lifting every word I write (as in they still do it), "creatively" editing them to suit their own agenda, then claim that what they posted is what I really wrote, even after I put up my my original posts. They're the reason why the Rock of Eternity Forum is now defunct.
I sold the issue, and all my Power of Shazams, at a yard sale last Summer for 50 cents each.
Quote:
The same day, I put up another post, this one stating that I was going to have some fics I wrote taken down from the FauxDC site because the former mod of another SHAZAM! BB stated that I had "plagiarized Jerry Ordway's GN," which wasn't true.
Quote:
This is unrelated to the Geoff Johns story?
Totally unrelated, but it and my critique of JSA # 44 is what the whole pile of bullshit was based on.
Quote:
JLAMarvel read both posts, put 2 and 2 together (and got 5), posted a link to the former, spinning it in a rather negative way, and the pitbulls jumped on it
And in case you haven't noticed it, FEL's other usual tactic is stalking people he calls "lying hypocrits" across the Internet JUST to see if they "post anything bad about him."
Quote:
I gather your beef with Johns is twofold: he maintains a monopoly over the Captain Marvel character and thereby prevents the character getting exposure in other titles (although I do note that Cap has appeared in Superman/Batman not too long ago) as well as this astro_citizen similiarity issue.
Not totally. My "beef" with Johns is that his stuff reads like the worst sort of Mary Sue fanfic. His storytelling "style" is long-winded, his plotting is best described as lazy, he creates so-called "Legacy" characters that have absolutely no connection to the hero they're replacing. It is, to paraphrase the Bard, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
Last edited by ShazamGrrl1; 2004-11-26 5:58 AM.
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I don't know shit about Geoff Johns, but what I do know is that Captain Marvel is a Superman ripoff.
By the same token, Superboy and Supergirl are ripoffs of Captain Marvel Junior and Mary Marvel. The current Kara even stole Junior's cape, for pissakes.
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Quote:
He's the one who keeps claiming I called Johns a plagiarist.
Maybe he would stop if you stopped calling Johns a plagiarist.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
ShazamGrrl1 said:
Quote:
Dave said:
Well, hang on, lets just go thorugh this.....
Quote:
ShazamGrrl1 said:
Ahh, I see you've been listening to Food Eater Lad's usual line of bullshit, which he uses whenever he can't, or rather won't, get his facts straight.
How does Food Eater Lad come into all of this?
He's the one who keeps claiming I called Johns a plagiarist.
Quote:
BTW, it was not my "story" and it was NOT actually stolen; it was an outline for a Captain Marvel Jr., story that a gent called astro_citizen posted on the old DCMBs, and the "arc" that it's SIMILAR TO has been reprinted in the "JSA: Savage Times" TPB.
Quote:
What were the points of similarity? I haven't read JSA: Savage Times, so I don't know anything about it. When was astro_citizen's outline published, and when was Savage Times published?
The similarities: a Marvel in ancient Egypt (Cap was with Hawkgirl and Mr. Terrific), Cap not thinking of using the Rock of Eternity to return to the present, not seeking out Shazam for help / advice / whatnot because of the possibility that the old wizard wouldn't know one of his own, having Nabu wrap up like a mummy.
The differences: first & foremost, Astro's outline was for a Captain Marvel Jr. story . Junior was alone, he couldn't use the RoE to return to the present, didn't meet with the old wizard on the slim chance that Shazam might know him, put himself in a deathlike state via biofeedback and left clues for Cap and Mary to find and free him in the present day.
So, hang on: astro_citizen writes a story about Cap Marvel Jr going to ancient Egypt: Johns writes about Cap Marvel going to ancient Egypt. Astro_citizen uses a plot device not to have Jr go to the ancient wizard because Shazam might not know him: Johns uses the same thing. Astro_citizen doesn't use the Rock of Eternity as a plot device, and neither does Johns. But they are the only similarities? I can see how someone might think there were similarities, but basically its a Marvel Family member goes to Ancient Egypt story, isn't it? That's a pretty broadbrush description that doesn't necessarily entail plagiarism or infringement of copyright....Were there any other similarities? If you were to read the two stories back to back, would you be struck by the overwhelming similarities between them?
Is it actually likely that Johns did read astro_citizen's story and copied some of the essence of it? Has Johns expressed an opinion on this?
Quote:
Quote:
Shortly after JSA # 44 came out, I wrote a post about the similarites AND the differences between the outline Astro_Citizen write and the "JSABC" arc on the now-defunct Rock of Eternity.
Quote:
Do you still have a copy of that?
Since I can't figure out if you mean the book or the post, I'm going to guess that you mean both.
The answer to both is no.
I deleted the posts on the RoE because I got tired of FEL and his faithful pooch patchwork lifting every word I write (as in they still do it), "creatively" editing them to suit their own agenda, then claim that what they posted is what I really wrote, even after I put up my my original posts. They're the reason why the Rock of Eternity Forum is now defunct.
OK, got that.
Quote:
I sold the issue, and all my Power of Shazams, at a yard sale last Summer for 50 cents each.
Quote:
The same day, I put up another post, this one stating that I was going to have some fics I wrote taken down from the FauxDC site because the former mod of another SHAZAM! BB stated that I had "plagiarized Jerry Ordway's GN," which wasn't true.
Quote:
This is unrelated to the Geoff Johns story?
Totally unrelated, but it and my critique of JSA # 44 is what the whole pile of bullshit was based on.
So it was basically the fact that you criticised the simialrities between astro_citizen's work and Johns' work, with the coincidence that you pulled down your own work form a website at the same time, giving rise to the suspicion amongst third parties that you thought Johns' might plagiarise your work in a similar manner? Is that the implication?
Quote:
Quote:
JLAMarvel read both posts, put 2 and 2 together (and got 5), posted a link to the former, spinning it in a rather negative way, and the pitbulls jumped on it
And in case you haven't noticed it, FEL's other usual tactic is stalking people he calls "lying hypocrits" across the Internet JUST to see if they "post anything bad about him."
I haven't seen Food Eater Lad in a very long time, since the old DCMB days, so I wouldn't know.
Quote:
Quote:
I gather your beef with Johns is twofold: he maintains a monopoly over the Captain Marvel character and thereby prevents the character getting exposure in other titles (although I do note that Cap has appeared in Superman/Batman not too long ago) as well as this astro_citizen similiarity issue.
Not totally. My "beef" with Johns is that his stuff reads like the worst sort of Mary Sue fanfic. His storytelling "style" is long-winded, his plotting is best described as lazy, he creates so-called "Legacy" characters that have absolutely no connection to the hero they're replacing. It is, to paraphrase the Bard, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
I can't argue with that at all - I entirely agree, except I don't really care - I just don't read his work. I quite like a lot of the old JSA characters - I love Sandman Mystery Theatre, and Mike Carey's The Furies, and think its very unfortunate that both characters (Sandman and Lyta Trevor) now appear in what is basically published mediocre-grade fan fiction. Having recently read The Liberty Files, its made me realise even more how much potential some of those old characters have: Liberty Files just highlight's Johns' JSA as a hybrid of Superfriends and The Bold and the Beautiful, using those properties. But as I said, I don't care - there are too many other decent titles about, superhero or otherwise.
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Quote:
Not totally. My "beef" with Johns is that his stuff reads like the worst sort of Mary Sue fanfic. His storytelling "style" is long-winded, his plotting is best described as lazy, he creates so-called "Legacy" characters that have absolutely no connection to the hero they're replacing. It is, to paraphrase the Bard, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
Since you've freely admitted in the past to not reading the book, how is it you make this claim? One issue of a book does not a run make.
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Has anyone read the DC Comics Message Board Rules and Policies? Quote:
Fan Fiction, Story Ideas and Related Issues
DC's Message Boards are NOT intended for use as forums for fan fiction or for the submission of story ideas or plots. DC and its employees and authorized licensees and freelance talent are constantly coming up with new storylines, ideas, plot proposals, and new fiction. DC shall have no responsibility for any similarities between any fan fiction, story ideas or plot proposals posted on our Message Boards in violation of our terms and conditions and any works subsequently published by DC or any of our licensees as any such similarity shall be purely coincidental. By posting any fan fiction or proposed story ideas or plots on DC's Message Boards, you waive any claims for credit or consideration of any kind as a result of DC's publication or use of any similar matter in any manner or medium.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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After years of crap with no character-continuity in comics, it is refreshing to see the amount of energy that Johns puts into his characters.
I look forward to Johns' stuff every month, in fact, the only thing I rewally haven't liked was Possed.
Who's my bitch?
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Quote:
ShazamGrrl1 said:
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I don't know shit about Geoff Johns, but what I do know is that Captain Marvel is a Superman ripoff.
By the same token, Superboy and Supergirl are ripoffs of Captain Marvel Junior and Mary Marvel. The current Kara even stole Junior's cape, for pissakes.
Impossible: if Superboy and Supergirl were Captain Marvel Jr and Mary Marvel ripoffs they would be twice as lame as the ""originals"", and I don't think that's even possible.
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I want to see Superboy and Supergirl get drunk and fuck. That would be hilarious!
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Has anyone read the DC Comics Message Board Rules and Policies?
Quote:
Fan Fiction, Story Ideas and Related Issues
DC's Message Boards are NOT intended for use as forums for fan fiction or for the submission of story ideas or plots. DC and its employees and authorized licensees and freelance talent are constantly coming up with new storylines, ideas, plot proposals, and new fiction. DC shall have no responsibility for any similarities between any fan fiction, story ideas or plot proposals posted on our Message Boards in violation of our terms and conditions and any works subsequently published by DC or any of our licensees as any such similarity shall be purely coincidental. By posting any fan fiction or proposed story ideas or plots on DC's Message Boards, you waive any claims for credit or consideration of any kind as a result of DC's publication or use of any similar matter in any manner or medium.
Yers, that came about after DC got sued by some guy for copying his Superman story.
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Judd Winnick stole some of my ideas for Green Lantern. I'd make a big fuzz about it, but the ideas sucked. Quote:
Stupid Dogg said:
I want to see Superboy and Supergirl get drunk and fuck. That would be hilarious!
A clone and a cousin, that would be incest! Who do you think they are, the Marvel Family?!
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Award-Winning Author 10000+ posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,353 |
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Judd Winnick stole some of my ideas for Green Lantern. I'd make a big fuzz about it, but the ideas sucked.
So YOU'RE the one to blame! LLance! Get 'im!
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,367 Likes: 14
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,367 Likes: 14 |
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Judd Winnick stole some of my ideas for Green Lantern. I'd make a big fuzz about it, but the ideas sucked.
You and your gay sidekick concepts.....
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Quote:
Stupid Dogg said:
I want to see Superboy and Supergirl get drunk and fuck. That would be hilarious!
A clone and a cousin, that would be incest! Who do you think they are, the Marvel Family?!
Superboy has some of Lex Luthor's DNA in him. And no, I don't mean the DNA in Luthor's sperm.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1 |
i'm actually a big fan of johns'sses's work. the most telling attribute is i don't really enjoy any of the characters he writes, and yet i enjoy the stories.
he's obviously mostly linked to the jsa and hawkman and all types of silver agey type characters, i.e; fanboy favorites that robbie no rikey. and, 99% of the time, i'd never even bother with any stories regarding any of those characters. but johns seems t'make'em interesting. the jsa issue's i've read have been great. the jla/jsa merges were simple n'fun. i admire the vigor and rejuvenation he applies to characters that, like it or not, have staled, miserably, in the past few years / decades.
he makes old characters new again, and can have them appeal to new audiences. namely: me.
going with the foreknowledge that it'd be impossible to please every original fan and still garner new ones, i think he deserves a huge amount of credit for doing so as well as possible.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,367 Likes: 14
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,367 Likes: 14 |
Its hack writing though Rob. You couldn't compare him in the same breath as Warren Ellis, let alone Frank Miller of Alan Moore.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
How would you know, Dave, since you've never actually read anything he's written, but in your own words, merely glanced across it?
You're pre-judging work without having read it, meaning your opinion is as relevant as anything Mota has to say.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1 |
i also think the term "hack" has lost all meaning since the dawn of message boards, and has become nothing but a preferential word, based solely on your perspective. to many, frank miller is a hack. to you, only johns is a hack. to me, neither is a hack. its all relative.
would i, in fact, rate his work on a level of frank miller? yes and no. my immediate thought is no... the dark knight returns and year one, and even some of his collected daredevil work (whose names i can't currently think of) are some of the greatest pieces of comic book literature (apply laughter, if need be) that i've ever come across. i've read them, i've reread them and i love them.
but telling the one great batman story might not be all that challenging. ... at least in comparison to penning 50 consecutive monthly issues ... in several different titles ... all at the same time. in that regard, he's got miller, and most everyone else, beat hands down.
or, look at it this way: miller got me to like batman. more. i already loved batman since i was in diapers. ...for the first time.
johns got me to enjoy the sandman. and hawkman. and the flash. and captain marvel. and powergirl. characters i didn't give a fugabout before. characters i would have never liked or cared about, had a writer not come along and "sold" them to me.
so whats a greater accomplishment? strengthening an appreciation? or broadening one's horizons?
he might not be everyone's cup of tea, but johns has accomplished much.
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