#27427
2002-03-18 3:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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#27428
2002-03-18 3:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
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...sigh... i am legitamately saddened by the hogan loss. confused, yeah... and very very saddened. i mean, it was a GREAT match -- very cool and fun to watch -- i was definitely pumped for it. and it was great to see not only hogan getting most of the cheers, but rocky getting booed!! ... then, the hulk up!!! the first wrestlemania - hulkamania experience in a decade!!! ... simply amazing. the loss just really hurt. i mean, like, for real made me sad. .... then, the handshake between the two made it seem more like a "final" kinda deal -- as if this was the torch passing, retirement match. that made it sad, and a wee bit confusing. then the nwo splits up. that made it more confusing. then hogan and rock are side by side -- MORE confusing. ill go into more detail tomorrow, when i have time to waste while at work, but... the initial feedback is that the match ended over an hour ago, and im still feelin really low -- similar to how this hulkamania felt an hour or so after hogan lost to the warrior, all those years ago. didnt like it then - dont like it now. im still a real american, and im still a hulkamaniac, but... im a sad one, thats fer sure.
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#27429
2002-03-18 3:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,142
5000+ posts
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Albert, Scotty 2 Hotty & Rikishi d. Mr. Perfect, Lance Storm & Test; Banzai Drop, Rikishi over Perfect in 3:03 RVD d. William Regal to win I-C Title; ***** Splash in 6:20 DDP d. Christian to retain European Title; Diamond Cutter in 6:09 During the Goldust v. Maven match, Spike Dudley snuck a pin on Maven to win the Hardcore Title Crash and Al Snow both tried unsuccessfully to win the Hardcore Title themselves before Hurricane Helms defeated Spike and went off Kurt Angle d. Kane; Angle Slam and feet on the ropes in 10:46 Undertaker d. Ric Flair; tombstone piledriver in 18:46 Edge d. Booker T; elevated DDT in 6:33 Mighty Molly won the Hardcore Title from Helms backstage Steve Austin d. Scott Hall; two stunners in 9:52 Four corners tag:
Dudleys d. APA; 3-D, D-Von over Bradshaw in 3:25
Hardys d. Dudleys; Twist of Fate and swanton, Matt pins Buh Buh Ray in 11:49
Billy & Chuck d. Hardys; ring bell shot, Chuck over Jeff in 13:51 Christian won the Hardcore Title from Molly The Rock d. Hulk Hogan; 2 Rock Bottoms and a People's Elbow in 16:23. Post match, Hogan and Rock shook hands, causing the Outsiders to turn on Hulk and Rocky to make the save. Jazz d. Trish Stratus and Lita; super fisherman's buster on Lita in 6:17 Maven defeated Christian to win the Hardcore Title again Triple H d. Chris Jericho for the Undisputed Titles; Pedigree in 18:42. Obviously, Stephanie also ate a Pedigree over the course of the match.
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#27430
2002-03-18 4:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,142
5000+ posts
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My initial reactions to the results...so, what, the Rock just completely forgets how Hogan attempted to murder him? The faces winning everything is sorta lame. I usually like Hardcore Title changes, but Maven ended with the belt at the end of the night anyway, so they seemed really stupid. Will the nWo stick around after the roster split? I think I'll wait until tomorrow to ponder anything else.
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#27432
2002-03-18 4:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,142
5000+ posts
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And now my favorite game, for no reason in particular...number of WrestleMania appearances! Albert: 2nd
Scotty: 4th
Rikishi: 4th
Mr. Perfect: 6th
Lance Storm: 1st
Test: 3rd
RVD: 1st
Regal: 2nd
DDP: 1st(technically second, first one as a chauffer)
Christian: 3rd
Goldust: 5th
Maven: 1st
Spike Dudley: 2nd
Crash: 2nd
Al Snow: 3rd
Helms: 1st
Angle: 3rd
Kane: 5th
Undertaker: 10th
Ric Flair: 2nd
Godfather: 5th
Edge: 3rd
Booker T: 1st
Molly: 1st
Austin: 6th
Hall: 4th
Nash: 4th
Dudleyz: 3rd
Faarooq: 6th
Bradshaw: 5th
Hardys: 4th
Billy Gunn: 5th
Palumbo: 1st
Rock: 6th
Hogan: 10th
Jazz: 1st
Trish: 2nd, I think
Lita: 2nd
Triple H: 7th
Jericho: 3rd Jericho, by the way, went from opening match to main event these past two WrestleManias. I believe he's the first to do that.
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#27433
2002-03-18 4:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 Likes: 2
Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Posts: 53,734 Likes: 2 |
....sadly no pete rose either....
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#27434
2002-03-18 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,539
I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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Thank Gob I didn't get it.
This sounds really shitty.
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#27435
2002-03-18 1:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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man... y'know, im still really sad by this loss!! ... i cant shake it!! its like my childhood hero lost...which... well, which is what happened. that really sucks!! im honestly more pissed over this than i was when the yankees choked in game 7 this year -- and that was real! anyway, as promised, more detail: the hogan loss is baffling to me. i somewhat expected hall to lose, but when hall and nash lost to stone cold, i thought for sure hogan would win -- otherwise, whats the point of the nWo? and, sure enuf, he doesnt. that means the nWo came in, talked big, and sucked it up when it counted -- all three of them lost within weeks of a debut, defeating their entire purpose. then, hogan becomes a nice guy and congradulates the rock. so, now the nWo is kissing ass. then, hall and nash turn on hogan, meaning that the nWo is defunct. so what was the whole fucking point?? they're already dissolved! the nWo idea, at least in the wcw days, was to be this whole mega powerful faction of its own -- challenging everything. and, bottom line, lasting more than 1 ppv!! instead, this group served no purpose, then broke up (at least their core) -- wasting an incredible storyline(s). the hogan match, itself, was cool as hell. i was INCREDIBLY pumped thru the whole thing. id wager 80% of the in-house fans were backing hogan solidly, to the extent that rocky was getting BOOED, let alone ignored. fantastic shit -- and you could see hogan was loving it. to see hogan pulling off a few rock bottoms and the rocky "bring it on" taunt was just fun as hell. i love it -- then... the hulk up!!! something i, and millions or others, have been dying to see on wwf tv for just about 10 years -- living, breathing, hulkamania!!! ... i was goin nuts watching this... truly in heaven. it was as good now as it was many years ago, the no pain, the circling fists, the direct point, and finally the "YOU" mouth... YAAAY!! i love it. hogan is too fucking cool. the pin hurt. i mean, really hurt. like, its not so bad, cuz he's "hollywood" and not "hulk," so its not the REAL hogan out there (meaning its "ok" for him to lose now). but... when he lost, i was grasping at straws to find 'the good' in it. so, i figured, ok -- now its just building to a bigger storyline. he'll come back and get revenge. then, we got "the handshake." ... what the fuck? now they're buddies!? how did hollywood hogan become the nice guy over the period of 20 minutes? this completely blows any chance of "retribution"... i dont WANT hogan to pair up with rock, in the now innevitable tag match vs hall and nash. i want the rock / hogan rivalry to build!! and, there's no way im alone. there should have definitely been a contigency plan in place. the people WANTED hogan to win. they WANTED hogan to beat the rock -- you could hear and see it. even the rock looked around shocked when he saw people booing him. there absolutely should have been an "audible" called, in real time, and a "plan b" ending put into place. maybe to have the rock and hogan change places (rock joining the nwo, hogan becoming the fan favorite face). but, if the bottom line was for hogan to "put over" the rock, you have to at LEAST make sure the fans want that to happen! the whole point of "passing the torch" is to let the new babyface take over, and carry the crowd -- but why do that if its not what the crowd wants?? if hogan has another year or five in him to carry the torch -- let him!!!! dont give it to a guy who is CURRENTLY being booed. they could have gotten away with the rock beating hogan, and then a feud building further (etc) until that fateful handshake. that killed it. so, not only was i upset with the loss (hogan losing clout), the night just got worse and worse by the minute. then, we have the rock and hogan being friends ('hollywood' dying, plus giving it the appearance of a hogan retirement match) and then the nWo splitting ('nWo' dying). the whole thing just seems to be a train wreck, out of control, and i cant understand why. with so much potential to have gone in any hundred of directions... ...sigh...
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#27436
2002-03-18 2:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,539
I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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Doubly so since this was Hogan's first Wrestlemanina in years.He should have won.Let him lose at the next pay-per-view but Hogan IS Wrestlemania.Losing to the Ultimate Warrior was kind of a downer but they were both over with the crowd,they wrestled a great match & Hogan lost with style & grace when he handed the Warrior the belt & raised his hand.This time Hogan was supposed to be the "bad" guy & there's no belt involved.Rock should've only won by a DQ not a pinfall.
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#27437
2002-03-18 2:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
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quote:
Originally posted by allan1:
Doubly so since this was Hogan's first Wrestlemanina in years.He should have won.Let him lose at the next pay-per-view but Hogan IS Wrestlemania.Losing to the Ultimate Warrior was kind of a downer but they were both over with the crowd,they wrestled a great match & Hogan lost with style & grace when he handed the Warrior the belt & raised his hand.This time Hogan was supposed to be the "bad" guy & there's no belt involved.Rock should've only won by a DQ not a pinfall.
absolutely. hogan was (is?) bad - that was ignored.
hogan had the crowd - that was ignored.
rock was booed - that was ignored.
hogan was at the wwf's wrestlemania - that was ingored.
hogan is sposda be a 'threat' - that was ignored.
the nWo is sposda be a powerhouse - that was ignored.
there was, as recent as the hour before the ppv, a few storylines! - they were ignored. bad calls.
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#27438
2002-03-18 3:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,539
I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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Indeed.Vinnie Mac really fumbled the ball.I think they wanted to break up the nWo prematurely because they were over with the crowd.I think they saw this back when Rock challenged Hogan & realized that if Hogan wins the Rock loses more than a match....he loses fans.If Hogan loses & then does a remake of his Warrior match(shaking his hand) & have Hall & Nash attack Hogan & the Rock then the WWF secures the Rock & Hogan's fans & gains the next main event at the next PPV where either:
a)Hogan & Rock team up & Hogan stays babyface
or
b)Hogan turns on the Rock mid-match saying it was an nWo plan all along.
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#27439
2002-03-19 4:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
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quote:
Originally posted by allan1:
b)Hogan turns on the Rock mid-match saying it was an nWo plan all along.
i thought about this one before... it STILL doesnt make up for anything that happened last night -- even if hogan does eventually turn on the rock, that makes last nights wmx8 results even dumber than it already was. leaving the nWo strong would have been a GOOD thing (...stupid ddp...). it would have created a heel powerhouse that, once EVENTUALLY surpassed, would make the wwf guys (rock, stone cold, whomever) look incredible. by having the wwf surpass the nWo only a few weeks after they're introduced -- you completely belittle the victory. if its an easy win (like it was), there's no glory in the victory. its retarded. nWo shoulda taken this one all the way, led by the power of hulkamania.
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#27440
2002-03-18 6:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,539
I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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But therein lies the rub.They want heels to be hated,booed & chants of "asshole" to fill the arena.Hogan on the other hand,elicited cheers,applause & chants of "Hogan,Hogan" & The Rock,who was supposed to have been the number one fan-draw,was getting only half the arena & there were even fans shown applauding when Hogan did the leg drop on him(back on Raw when Rock made the challenge).What happened at X8 shouldn't have been but I honestly believe now that they're gonna go the route of setting up Hogan to act all friendly with the Rock & then turn on him to set him up as a hated heel.I guess we'll see what happens on Raw tonight & then things'll be more clear.
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#27441
2002-03-18 7:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by allan1:
But therein lies the rub.They want heels to be hated,booed & chants of "asshole" to fill the arena.
yeah, but i dont think wrestling in general (but wwf specifically) is as into the "good/bad" split as they used to be. there's not the black/white split like there used to be -- everything is now a gray. the wwfs main "good guys" being the rock and stone cold, but you can easily call to mind hundreds of "not standard good guy" things they've done or said in the past 2 months, alone. beer toasting, swears gallore, tying someone to a chair, kicking someone over who is praying, accepting a goodluck handshake and turning it into a finishing move.... botton line, they aint exactly yer typical "good guy" make up. they're moreso just very popular not-so-bad guys. hollywood hogan, and the nWo in general, could have been more of the same. not really bad, not really good -- just out for themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by allan1:
Hogan on the other hand,elicited cheers, applause & chants of "Hogan,Hogan" & The Rock,who was supposed to have been the number one fan-draw,was getting only half the arena
if that! via the tv, it sounded like an 80/20 split in hogan's favor (and in-crowd fan reaction, from those who went that posted on the net, seem to state that it was an even greater split for hulkamania). (maybe HOGAN will now be known as "the people's champ!"  ) if characters were going to switch alignment at all (which i still dont think needed to happen, due to the above "gray area" commentary) rocky should have become the bad guy -- he was, after all, being heavily booed -- the same conceptual format that had hogan turn bad in the first place, 6 years ago. quote:
Originally posted by allan1:
I honestly believe now that they're gonna go the route of setting up Hogan to act all friendly with the Rock & then turn on him to set him up as a hated heel.
which seems like the "right" thing to do, i agree - but further negates anything (everything) accomplished last night. i really wish last night just didnt happen -- it sorta messes up everything that could (have) happen(ed). (the one cool thing im dreamin up now... is if tonight, there's the anticipated tag match, with the anticipated 'turn on you' element... except its the rock joining the nWo turning on hogan! ... hogan gets payback at backlash?? ... with a lil red n'yellow?) [ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Rob Kamphausen ]
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#27442
2002-03-18 7:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
Flair vs Taker stole the show
i dont think it stole the show (c'mon, hogan / rock??) but it was definitely very cool!!! it was great to see the flair entrance again, complete with 2001 theme and sequens robe. they even threw in the "flair-into-the-corner-flip-upside-down" bit! woulda loved it if he got a lil more crazy, tho. did s'more stylin, s'more profilin in the ring, bounced off the ropes, and elbow dropped the taker (the original "people's elbow") but the most amazing part of the match ... double A!!! he pulled off a sweet fuckin move - fast as hell!! i dunno if the majority of the wwf fans even know who he is (especially that he was a wrestler at one point) but the move was nice!!! bad back, be damned!
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#27443
2002-03-18 8:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 Likes: 2
Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Posts: 53,734 Likes: 2 |
what the hell are you guys babbling on about? Flair lost! that is by far worse!
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#27444
2002-03-18 9:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 25
25+ posts
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25+ posts
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As soon as Hogan pinned Rock on RAW it was obvious he wouldnt win at Mania. I always kinda hated that Hogan was in the NWO anyway. It was a great match though.
As for Flair,he should have won.There was no reason for him to lose. Undertaker terrorized his family and friends meaning Flair shoulda got the win,thats how it works. Vince is confusing. Arn Rules!
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#27445
2002-03-18 11:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
what the hell are you guys babbling on about? Flair lost! that is by far worse!
i know, i know... flair's loss sucked. but... i dunno, i guess it could be explained by the fact that he hasnt wrestled (a real competitor) in... ... ..wow, a long time (sting in wcw?) he also needs to think about adding a shirt to his wrestling gear!! i was shocked david flair didnt run out and try something (only to get beat up, of course) and then have flair go into "wolverine rage" because of it. flair definitely should have gotten the win. i mean, i like the undertaker n'all, but... this fat guy is NOT the undertaker -- i hate him!! regardless, it was simply great to see flair and all his classic stuff (plus, jr's mentioning of the "2 horseman reunion!")
quote:
Originally posted by Rueben Rivera:
As soon as Hogan pinned Rock on RAW it was obvious he wouldnt win at Mania.
i havent watched wwf in years, so i dunno if its still the standard, but... i always hate this! how you could tell who was gonna win at the ppv (especially wrestlemania) by which opponent got the last laugh prior to it. but, for all those years (and, obviously, this years) its definitely become a proven theory! quote:
I always kinda hated that Hogan was in the NWO anyway..
i think the fans do, too!! i mean, this guy drove a mac truck at his opponent (after he already had him in an ambulance!!) and yet, the people love him. hogan rules!
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#27446
2002-03-19 1:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
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Posts: 14,896 |
Rob, don't be sad, this is great!!!! Hulk's back, it's not Hollywood anymore, it's THE Hulk Hogan, the guy we all came to know and love long ago!!!! This is great!!!!! HOGAN! HOGAN! HOGAN! HOGAN! HOGAN! Love the new avatar btw.....
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#27447
2002-03-19 1:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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why thank y'animalman. i am a real american! im starting to shake the sadness. ...that is until wrestlemania replays on my cablebox tomorrow night. ...sigh... anywho, raw is on right now tho, so, mebbe things'll change n'be better by tomorrow morning. mebbe ill have my red n'yellow back!
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#27448
2002-03-19 2:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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I wonder if now that the REAL Hulkster is back they'll have his old song again, I loved that song. "I am a real American. Fight for your rights, fight for your life!" Ah, brings tears of joy to my eyes it does....manly, macho tears of course...
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#27449
2002-03-19 3:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
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..snif.. ...heres some tissues...
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#27450
2002-03-19 11:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,539
I'm just sayin' 10000+ posts
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Well,the tag match didn't happen the way I was thinking it would.Hogan did clean house though.
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#27451
2002-03-19 12:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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Yeah, that was a great show but the ending was terrible.
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#27452
2002-03-19 1:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
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the "behind the scenes" results of that match, btw (i.e; what happened when the cameras went off) included a final to that match, with hogan doing a people's elbow on scott hall for the pin. even back when i was a wcw fan, i always REALLY appreciated the way the wwf made sure the fans in attendance were treated to a good show. even if something didnt make it to air, the wwf always made sure that the fans got to see the faces win. anyway... i have a feeling the tag match ended like it did in order to prolong the storyline (one of them turning on the other). im guessin we're gonna see hollywood rocky by the next ppv.
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#27453
2002-03-19 8:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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here, taken from wrestlezone.comScott Hall and Kevin Nash come back to the ring and received a Rock Bottom and a leg drop from The Rock and Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan ended up doing the People's Elbow on Scott Hall. Hogan and Rock held up the Canadian Flag for the crowd and left. Scott Hall got up and wiped the Canadian Flag with his ass which got major heat from the crowd.
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#27454
2002-03-19 9:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
the "behind the scenes" results of that match, btw (i.e; what happened when the cameras went off) included a final to that match, with hogan doing a people's elbow on scott hall for the pin.even back when i was a wcw fan, i always REALLY appreciated the way the wwf made sure the fans in attendance were treated to a good show. even if something didnt make it to air, the wwf always made sure that the fans got to see the faces win. anyway... i have a feeling the tag match ended like it did in order to prolong the storyline (one of them turning on the other). im guessin we're gonna see hollywood rocky by the next ppv.
I agree completely. I went to a live show a few weeks ago(Raw is War), and I was really impressed at how much they gave the fans, there was about half an hour to an hour of matches BEFORE the actual show that featured some "up and comers", and then after the cameras went off there was a very cool confrontation between Stone Cold and Triple H. It really rocked. What suprised me the most about that night was how rowdy, yet controlled the crowd was. Fan involvement is very key in wwf storylines, and this crowd played it's part well. However, I was somewhat tentative about the atmosphere before hand, some of those wrasslin fans are really fucked up and freaky. Fortunately, we managed to avoid anyone completely outrageous(unless you count the guy dressed as Rick Flair, no shirt...just a robe....), infact, there was a family sitting right behind us and the two kids knew the words to EVERY FUCKING INTRO SONG, and all the moves. All in all, it kicked ass.
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