|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949
2500+ posts
|
|
2500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949 |
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050427/ap_on_re_us/brf_ballistics_idQuote:
Bill Would Put Serial Numbers on Bullets
SACRAMENTO, Calif. - A state Senate committee approved a proposal Tuesday to put a serial number on every handgun bullet made or sold in California.
The measure cleared the Senate Public Safety Committee on a 4-2 vote over opposition from manufacturers, firearms dealers and sport shooters.
The technology exists to laser-cut bullets with a number that police could use to trace who purchased bullets used in crimes, said Democratic sponsor Sen. Joseph Dunn.
Purchasers would pay up to a half a cent per bullet to fund record-keeping by the state
Department of Justice. Vendors would pay up to $50 a year.
"We'll solve a lot of crimes if this becomes law," said Attorney General Bill Lockyer.
If approved by the Legislature, the law would take effect in July 2007.
I can understand manufacturers and firearms dealers being annoyed about this bill because it's a hassle for the manufacturer and it costs the vendors. But why the hell are sports shooters objecting to this? A half-cent per bullet really doesn't add up to much - somewhere in the vicinity of a couple of bucks. So what's the big deal?
Other than that, I think it's a good idea. I'd like to see this happen in other states as well.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 140
100+ posts
|
|
100+ posts
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 140 |
Yeah, like that'll happen  The NRA was against safeguards to prevent terror suspects from buying firearms, which did happen. What makes you think they'll be for this?
From Washington Times interview with DeLay:
Mr. Hurt: Have you ever crossed the line of ethical behavior in terms of dealing with lobbyists, your use of government authority or with fundraising?
Mr. DeLay: Ever is a very strong word.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949
2500+ posts
|
|
2500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949 |
Having read this, I now REEEEEEEEEEALLY want this "serial number on bullets" law to happen in Florida.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050427/od_n...HNlYwNsbjc1Nw--
Quote:
Florida Governor Signs Deadly Force Law
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee.
Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes.
The new law expands that doctrine to include people in public places who feel threatened and could be subject to death or great bodily harm.
"To suggest that you can't defend yourself against a rapist, who's trying to drag you into an alley, or against a carjacker who's trying to drag you out of your car is nonsense," said Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association.
"The ability to protect yourself, your children or your spouse, is important, no matter where you are."
Critics of the new law, called the "Stand Your Ground" bill, have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves in their homes but say the bill will create a "Wild West" mentality in public, where residents may shoot first and ask questions later.
"There are going to be a lot of repercussions," said Rep. Eleanor Sobel, a Democrat. "You could have someone reaching into their pocket and if the person felt threatened he could shoot."
Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that homeowners have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded the doctrine to include employees in their workplace and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles.
Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The new law removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.
"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," Rep. Irv Slosberg, a Democrat, said during recent debate on the bill.
I have no objection to the idea of killing in genuine self-defense at all. Someone tries to harm me or my family, I want the right to defned myself when necessary.
However, there are a lot of idiots in Florida with really short tempers and really lousy aim who are the type that would easily gun down someone that pissed them off and claim self defense.
So it's a really tough call - the old "punishing the guilty without hurting the innocents you're trying to save dillemma."
On one hand, there's the rights of intended victims to defend their lives vs. the rights of innocent bystanders to be in a public place without having to worry about getting their brains blown out by some hotshot desperado (or someone with lousy aim.) People dying because they'e not allowed to defend themselves from genuine threats vs. people getting killed because someone else mistakenly thinking they're a threat. Lives saved by trying to take out a psycho trying to shoot up your workplace or school vs. lives lost when innocent people get caught in the crossfire.
You get the idea, I'm sure.
So if serial numbers on bullets make it easier to identify murder suspects, and if there's a risk we might be seeing more people getting shot, I'm all for bringing serial numbers to Florida's bullets.
Besides, we have plenty of unsolved shooting deaths here in Florida, so that in itself is reason enough to enact it here.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-04-28 6:34 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949
2500+ posts
|
|
2500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949 |
Quote:
Paul Mandral said:
Yeah, like that'll happen
The NRA was against safeguards to prevent terror suspects from buying firearms, which did happen. What makes you think they'll be for this?
I remember reading about this a while back. I think I posted something about this on the RKMBs (or someone else did.)
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-04-28 6:30 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
|
|
living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
Umm, what? I thought most bullets already had serial numbers on them. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 140
100+ posts
|
|
100+ posts
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 140 |
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
I think I posted something about this on the RKMBs
Are you high?
From Washington Times interview with DeLay:
Mr. Hurt: Have you ever crossed the line of ethical behavior in terms of dealing with lobbyists, your use of government authority or with fundraising?
Mr. DeLay: Ever is a very strong word.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949
2500+ posts
|
|
2500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949 |
Nope. See for yourself. http://www.rkmbs.com/...true#Post451776This is the part where I get to laugh in your face and say "I told you so."
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 140
100+ posts
|
|
100+ posts
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 140 |
No. Not that.
You referred to these boards as if you're somewhere else right now.
From Washington Times interview with DeLay:
Mr. Hurt: Have you ever crossed the line of ethical behavior in terms of dealing with lobbyists, your use of government authority or with fundraising?
Mr. DeLay: Ever is a very strong word.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949
2500+ posts
|
|
2500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949 |
Quote:
Paul Mandral said:
No. Not that.
You referred to these boards as if you're somewhere else right now.
How in the name of all that is holy did you infer that from my comment?
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,958 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
|
|
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,958 Likes: 6 |
I'm no ballistics expert, but I have to question whether a laser etched serial number would remain intact after a bullet is fired through the air and into something.
As far as the NRA, the NRA typically opposes these things because of privacy concerns. I'm a life member, but I sometimes think they take those privacy concerns too far, just as the ACLU does for every other effin' topic. Unless they can demonstrate the laser number would be easy to fake or otherwise could create false criminal liability for the owner of the bullet, I'm not in agreement with them on that issue.
As far as the Florida "self defense" law, based on the article it appears that the state simply codified into statute the existing, and long standing, rule of self-defense, to wit, that a person who has a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious physical injury has a right to use deadly force in self defense. That's nothing new.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949
2500+ posts
|
|
2500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,949 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
As far as the Florida "self defense" law, based on the article it appears that the state simply codified into statute the existing, and long standing, rule of self-defense, to wit, that a person who has a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious physical injury has a right to use deadly force in self defense. That's nothing new.
What the law actually permits and what people think the law permits are often two different things. We've seen that demonstrated around here plenty of times.
(And yes, this applies to my opinion of the Florida law)
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-04-28 4:58 PM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
|
|
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801 |
To answer the earlier thing about sport shooters, professional marksmen who tour the country entering pistol competitions go through thousands and thousands of rounds of ammunition a year. Even a half cent adds up over time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 193
100+ posts
|
|
100+ posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 193 |
Well then they can arrange some special competition provided ammo for them then, can't they?
always with you what can't be done.
You must unlearn what you have learned.
[url=http://www.robkamphausen.com/ubbthreads/...e=0&fpart=2 ]the G-man said[/url]
Wednesday and I have an open relationship. And we believe in sharing.
G-Man "G-gay" points: 2,000,000
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,205
fudge 4000+ posts
|
|
fudge 4000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,205 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
I'm no ballistics expert, but I have to question whether a laser etched serial number would remain intact after a bullet is fired through the air and into something.
As far as the NRA, the NRA typically opposes these things because of privacy concerns. I'm a life member, but I sometimes think they take those privacy concerns too far, just as the ACLU does for every other effin' topic. Unless they can demonstrate the laser number would be easy to fake or otherwise could create false criminal liability for the owner of the bullet, I'm not in agreement with them on that issue.
As far as the Florida "self defense" law, based on the article it appears that the state simply codified into statute the existing, and long standing, rule of self-defense, to wit, that a person who has a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious physical injury has a right to use deadly force in self defense. That's nothing new.
I seriously doubt that serial numbers on the bullet would remain intact, but that's just my opinion.
However, I have to ask you G-man, both as a person and as a lawyer.
What is reasonable fear of death/injury?
with this question I obviously refer to DK's comment about someone reaching into a pocket and another suddenly feeling threatened about it
 Racks be to MisterJLA
|
|
|
|
|
