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Quote:
PJP said:
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Matter-eater Man said:
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PJP said:
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Matter-eater Man said:
Is it really unreasonable to want the made up stuff that contradicts the 9/11 commission report changed? Is it really more important to take swipes at Clinton no matter the facts?
do you disagree that Clinton could have assasinated bin laden multiple times but chose not to so he wouldn't suffer in his beloved polls.
Not sure how that would have hurt Clinton in the polls. I'm sure some people in the "I hate Clinton" club would have been demanding that Ken Starr get on that right away but the more average citizen would have cheered if Clinton had succeeded in assasinating Bin Laden.
80% of the country had no idea who he was. Clinton knew if he did nothing the polls would stay steady.
I think his failure to get Bin Laden isn't the same as "doing nothing". I've also heard arguments that Clinton built up Bin Laden because he was focusing to much on him. If Clinton had succeeded in getting Bin Laden it would have been a big boost in the polls for him. Even pre 9/11 Bin Laden had attacked & killed Americans. People would have been reminded what he did & Clinton would have gotten a boost in the polls. While the idea of Clinton somehow being a purely poll driven beast is something that you feel is true & that you absolutley know to be the case, I like the flawed guy & see him as a real human being. Clinton did some great things & for how much the far right hates him, he couldn't have been all that bad 
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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Matter-eater Man said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:...
Does it bother you that people can;t watch a movie on ABC without it first being screened by Democratic opperitives who then decide what' sok for us to see?
WBAM started a thread called "Take that CBS" concerning the Reagens that was pulled a couple of years ago.
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
CBS has cancelled the upcoming TV movie "The Reagans" in which the took inflamitory liberties with the true history of one of this nations great leaders. Fortunately people got wind of what they were doing and made enough noise to get them to back off.
WBAM's "Take that CBS"
Rather interesting how folks posted on that thread 
I'm not going to ask if you underdstand the difference between public pressure and political pressure, I'm just going to explain it to you. The Reagan movie was pulled because it was not only offensive but poorly timed in regards to the death of Reagan so the PUBLIC complained and raised hell and CBS pulled it because it wasn;t going to be proffitible for them at the time.
Fastforward to today where a movie takes what has been reported by those who have seen it to be harsh towards the Bush administration as well as the Clinton administration. The general public sentiment has been that people are interested in seeing it. However political opperitives have acctually treatened the broadcaster to revoke thier license if they run the mini-series and at the very least edit it to make the Democrat administration better.
George Soros may not have given you permission to agknoledge the difference, but I can tell you there is a FUNDIMENTAL difference between the PUBLIC telling broadcasters what they WANT to see and POLLITITIONS telling the public what they are ALOUD to see. I'm sure there are some interesting things said in that thread and I'll comment on any similatrities or contradictions I see in it.
Like with the Reagens, there is public pressure on ABC to correct reported errors in the movie. I find the fake stuff to be offensive. I'm sure you would too if it was about Bush. I've yet to hear of any fictionalized scenes that make Bush look bad. Are there any?
Unlike with the Reagens, this is being touted as a docudrama & was going to be part of a Scholastic program. The Reagens was a dramitization & wasn't being peddled as an ecucational experience for kids. I think it's fair to say that 9/11 like the Reagens is something the general public wants to see portrayed accurately.
As I've said I don't agree with Harry Reid & company making veiled threats. As my post fell I can understand where you would get a different impression though.
If you stand opposed to what Ried is doing then I respect your position. I may deate the "innacuracies" but at least you agree that the people should debate it rather than it be censored by political leaders.
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Wow. A moment of near total agreement on something... 
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Is this what you're talking about?
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Quote:
Adrian Tullberg said:
Is this what you're talking about?
No. That was pretty stupid.
To date, everything we've read says the Bush administration also comes up for criticism in this movie.
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Quote:
Adrian Tullberg said:
Is this what you're talking about?
Actually, as sheer spoof, that was hilarious! 
Come on, G. Even you get the joke that it goes both ways, right? Hasselhof as Bush and Belushi as Clinton? Come on! That's comedy gold!
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Hey, I can even appreciate a good anti-Bush joke, if its funny enough. I just think that one wasn't very funny.
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Actually, I thought it was a duel-edged joke. I took it as a parody/exageration of how the Dems saw the movie, too...
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Adrian Tullberg said:
Is this what you're talking about?
No. That was pretty stupid.
To date, everything we've read says the Bush administration also comes up for criticism in this movie.
To date, I've yet to read of any made up scenes that take swipes at Bush in the movie. I get the impression that any criticism is minimal & it does far more boosting Bush up. For example there won't be the scene of a Bush reading "My pet goat" & upon hearing that are country is being attacked, springs into action by... continuing reading "My pet goat". We will however skip to the part where he gives some great speaches. The film will inevitably cut off with a united America (that Bush quickly helps divides afterwards)
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Actually, I thought it was a duel-edged joke. I took it as a parody/exageration of how the Dems saw the movie, too...
I understood it was a dual edged joke, but I didn't think it was funny. What I was saying is that I'd rather read a funny anti-Bush joke that makes sense than an unfunny dual edged one that doesn't.
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re: the cartoon
Ah, we can only dream that it would have happened that way. 
As for no "fictional" scenes of the Bush admin, he only had 8 months in office prior to the attack. There wasn't a laundry basket worth of incidents to combine to make a point.
Clinton said it himself in 2004 that he had been offered OBL by the Saudis back in 96 but chose not to because the US didn't have any criminal charges against him.
Billy had his chance and decided against taking a hard line on terrorist. There are just sooooo many items to choose from, the guys at ABC had to condence it down to a few scenes. It is only a 5 hour mini after all.
Still not going to watch it though, I'll be watching the Manning brothers playing football on NBC.
 GO COLTS!!!!
btw: I'm not an alt ID of the G-Man, I'm more of a Rush clone. 
Last edited by Rook187; 2006-09-09 11:58 PM.
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Quote:
Rook187 said:
btw: I'm not an alt ID of the G-Man, I'm more of a Rush clone.
Same thing.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
Rook187 said:
btw: I'm not an alt ID of the G-Man, I'm more of a Rush clone.
I like Rush, especially Fly By Night, 2112, and Working Man. Those albums rock!
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Quote:
PJP said:
80% of the country had no idea who he was. Clinton knew if he did nothing the polls would stay steady.
Clinton won two elections I'm sure more than 20% of the nation knew who he was. Unless you're crying election fraud. But even in that case surely people would've heard of Bill Clinton after such an act.
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You do realize PJP was referring to Bin Laden, not Clinton, don't you?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
You do realize PJP was referring to Bin Laden, not Clinton, don't you?
obviously.
you do realize that jack benny wouldn't actually need to think about it if a man with a gun said "your money or your life?"
For more information click here.
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You, Ray, are no Jack Benny.
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I don't think I could watch this. Bad enough to have experienced it vicariously on the TV.
It's not really about that day, but the years before:
Unlike recent movies such as Oliver Stone’s World Trade Center and United 93, the ABC miniseries doesn’t concentrate solely on the events of 9/11. It does dramatize that day, but the bulk of the show focuses on what led up to the catastrophe: the failed attempt to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993, the embassy bombings in 1998, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole in 2000, and so on.
If nothing else, The Path to 9/11 makes one thing abundantly clear: Hard-working law-enforcement officials had multiple opportunities to stop the terrorists before they wreaked their havoc, but inept leadership... got in the way.
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Quote:
'L.A. Times' Media Critic Hits 'Irresponsiiblity' of ABC On 9/11 Film
NEW YORK Tim Rutten of the Los Angeles Times joined many of his media and TV critic colleagues on Sunday in raising serious questions about "The Path to 9/11" TV movie, scheduled to start a two-day run tonight, but went further in judging its home network, ABC.
The movie has been criticized for factual errors, taking too much artistic license in conflating or inventing events, and for alleged pro-conservative bias. The filmmakers were hastily re-editing all weekend but it is not known what the final product will look like. Commentary in newspapers across the country simmered on Sunday, but even the favorable reviews were based on apparently out-of-date review copies.
...
I think this should be pulled & if they can fix it, reschedule for next year.
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I hear that, G Man...and the jury is still out as to whether or not FDR knew about Pearl Harbor ahead of time, and allowed it to happen as an impetus to get Americans to want to go to war with Japan and Germany.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I think this should be pulled & if they can fix it, reschedule for next year.
Quote:
Matter-eater Man meant:
I think this should be pulled until after the November elections because it might hurt the Democrats chances of taking over congress
As National Review's John J. Miller notes:
More than anything else, its enemies seem to hate the fact that it directs most of the blame for the disaster of five years ago on someone other than President Bush.
President Clinton’s appearances are confined to images from news conferences and his deposition: There he is denying his relationship with Monica Lewinsky, then explaining it away, and finally announcing his determination to battle terrorism. He comes off as fatally detached from America’s greatest challenges. In fairness, though, the miniseries does allow for a different interpretation: Although Clinton brought the Lewinsky mess upon himself, Republicans are to blame for letting it become a national distraction — and one that had bad consequences for O’Neill and his fellow terror hunters.
Also, it’s worth mentioning that in Monday’s installment, when the miniseries turns to the early days of the Bush administration, then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice (played very effectively by 24 veteran Penny Johnson Jerald) comes off as an ignoramus, especially in a scene when she downsizes the responsibilities of counterterror official Richard Clarke. To call this a pro-Bush miniseries, as its critics surely will do, is a bit too simple.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I think this should be pulled & if they can fix it, reschedule for next year.
Quote:
Matter-eater Man meant:
I think this should be pulled until after the November elections because it might hurt the Democrats chances of taking over congress
Its already been established that this film creates scenes out of thin air to make Clinton look bad and omits scenes that happened but would make Bush look bad.
If Michael Moore made this movie and there were bold faced lies about Bush and he left out the entire Clinton/Lewinsky affair then you would be saying the same thing I am.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
I think this should be pulled & if they can fix it, reschedule for next year.
Quote:
Matter-eater Man meant:
I think this should be pulled until after the November elections because it might hurt the Democrats chances of taking over congress
No, as I understand ABC is frantically re-editing the mini this weekend. Pulling out the factually wrong & innacurracies the conservative writer/producer put in. Since it concerns the Clinton Administration (who isn't on the ballot this year) the words you put in my mouth don't really make sense.
If there are factual errors in this project isn't it better to correct them?
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
If Michael Moore made this movie and there were bold faced lies about Bush ...then you would be saying the same thing I am.
Moore already did that. It was called Farenheit 9/11
Show me where I ever called for it to be censored.
Also, as noted above, there are scenes in the movie that make Bush and Rice look bad.
Obviously, you want a movie that blames everything on Bush.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
If Michael Moore made this movie and there were bold faced lies about Bush ...then you would be saying the same thing I am.
Moore already did that. It was called Farenheit 9/11
Show me where I ever called for it to be censored.
Also, as noted above, there are scenes in the movie that make Bush and Rice look bad.
Obviously, you want a movie that blames everything on Bush.
where did I say that? I would like an honest documentary. I hate wasting my time on fictionalized accounts like that.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man meant:
I think this should be pulled until after the November elections because it might hurt the Democrats chances of taking over congress
Since you put this idea forward I have to wonder if maybe you think this might hurt Dems in the Nov election? You seem to be pushing for this to air despite reported factual errors. Wouldn't it be better to have a more factual accounting of 9/11 than one that Rush Limbaugh likes?
Last edited by Matter-eater Man; 2006-09-10 2:24 PM.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
....the conservative writer/producer put in...
The writer, Cyrus Nowrasteh, is an admitted conservative.
However, the executive producer is Marc E. Platt. According to OpenSecrets.Org, Platt's only donations to candidates are Democrats, including, John Breaux, Al Gore, Mary Landreiu and Sam Gejdenson. As such, I don't see how you can call him a "conservative."
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
If Michael Moore made this movie and there were bold faced lies about Bush ...then you would be saying the same thing I am.
Moore already did that. It was called Farenheit 9/11
Show me where I ever called for it to be censored.
Also, as noted above, there are scenes in the movie that make Bush and Rice look bad.
Obviously, you want a movie that blames everything on Bush.
where did I say that? I would like an honest documentary. I hate wasting my time on fictionalized accounts like that.
Sadly enough, r3x is absolutely right on this one. If you're smart enough to see that Michael Moore is a douche, you should be smart enough to see that the conservative equivalent of Michael Moore is also a douche for the same reasons. 9/11 deserves to be more than a political launch platform.
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Quote:
Killconey said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
If Michael Moore made this movie and there were bold faced lies about Bush ...then you would be saying the same thing I am.
Moore already did that. It was called Farenheit 9/11
Show me where I ever called for it to be censored.
Also, as noted above, there are scenes in the movie that make Bush and Rice look bad.
Obviously, you want a movie that blames everything on Bush.
where did I say that? I would like an honest documentary. I hate wasting my time on fictionalized accounts like that.
Sadly enough, r3x is absolutely right on this one. If you're smart enough to see that Michael Moore is a douche, you should be smart enough to see that the conservative equivalent of Michael Moore is also a douche for the same reasons. 9/11 deserves to be more than a political launch platform.
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But how is a movie that criticizes both the Clinton and Bush administrations a political launch forum?
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and further more r3x and MEM believe Farenheit 9-11 and support Moore.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
But how is a movie that criticizes both the Clinton and Bush administrations a political launch forum?
The factual errors & misinformation part. Some conservatives are even saying it's wrong...
Quote:
From the September 8 edition of American Morning:
BENNETT: But the phones got flooded because I said I thought the Clintons had a point about this ABC miniseries. And my audience pretty dramatically --
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN (co-host): Oh, The Path to 9/11.
BENNETT: Right. They pretty dramatically disagreed with me, yes.
O'BRIEN: Really? Well, tell me both sides. First, what's your side on that?
BENNETT: Well, maybe, having been a cabinet member, you know, you have some heightened concern about being quoted accurately and correctly. Look, this -- The Path to 9/11 is strewn with a lot of problems, and I think there were problems in the Clinton administration. But that's no reason to falsify the record, falsify conversations by either the president or his leading people. And, you know, it just shouldn't happen.
Conservatives now have to be consistent, Soledad. When The Reagans, that show about the Reagans, CBS show, came out, it had all sorts of distortions and misstatements. Conservatives went crazy and had it relegated somewhere -- I don't know. It never appeared on CBS. And so I think they should be consistent. And when ABC comes out and has conversations taking place among cabinet members on recent history, on matters that are still before us, I think they should correct those inaccuracies.
...
Media Matters
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Quote:
PJP said:
and further more r3x and MEM believe Farenheit 9-11 and support Moore.
Yeah, its ironic when someone supports a movie that purported to be a documentary, like F-9/11, that was falsified but get all bent out of shape over a dramatization starring Harvey Keitel, Mark Walberg, Penny Johnson from "24" (as Condeleeza Rice) and the fat guy from "Office Space" and "Newsradio."
Now, where I think ABC was all wet was when they tried to get schools to use it as a teaching aid. Schools shouldn't be using any fictionalized movie as a teaching aid.
But for government officials to call for prior restraint of art and censorship, and for people like MEM and Ray to support that, is really scary.
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Quote:
PJP said:
and further more r3x and MEM believe Farenheit 9-11 and support Moore.
Some things I've said about Moore
Quote:
...I don't see moore as being perfect but I doubt he's rooting for the terrorists.
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A bit of moore does go a long way but I wonder how many of you are fans of Limbaugh, Coulter & the like and if so how you differentiate them from moore?
From this Michael Moore thread
Granted I'm not trying to burn him at the stake but then again I didn't post on the Reagans thread like you & G-man (who even took issue with a liberal portraying Reagan).
PJP I know your not a Clinton fan but if the miniseries is just making things up to blame Clinton, can you really be for it?
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Quote:
the G-man said:...
But for government officials to call for prior restraint of art and censorship, and for people like MEM and Ray to support that, is really scary.
You do remember the post where I specifically said Harry Reid was wrong doing the veilled threat letter to ABC right?
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Matter-eater Man said:
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PJP said:
and further more r3x and MEM believe Farenheit 9-11 and support Moore.
Some things I've said about Moore
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...I don't see moore as being perfect but I doubt he's rooting for the terrorists.
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A bit of moore does go a long way but I wonder how many of you are fans of Limbaugh, Coulter & the like and if so how you differentiate them from moore?
From this Michael Moore thread
Granted I'm not trying to burn him at the stake but then again I didn't post on the Reagans thread like you & G-man (who even took issue with a liberal portraying Reagan).
PJP I know your not a Clinton fan but if the miniseries is just making things up to blame Clinton, can you really be for it?
If it was proven they were making things up I wouldn't be supporting it....no way. I just feel that Clinton could and should have done more as a President. My opinion of him is he was our biggest do nothing President ever who happened to serve in office during a once in a lifetime Stock Market/Tech boom that we will never ever see again. He had nothing to do with the Tech Boom but yet he has the balls to take credit for the economy.....9/11 just happens to be the most horrific example of his unwillingness to rock the boat and do what was right for the country.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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OP
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,951 Likes: 6 |
True, MEM, you did criticize the Clintons, Schumer, Reid, etc.
However, at the same time you are agreeing with them that the movie should be edited and/or cancelled. That's what I meant by support.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308 |
Did anyone actually watch this tonight?
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1
We already are 15000+ posts
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We already are 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1 |
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PJP said:
I'll be watching Eli Vs. Peyton tonight.
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