RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books Flash:Rebirth?

This is a book I was looking forward to for a while.It was the first one I read this week & I wish I had saved it for last because I didn't get it.The first issue made no sense in the respect that if I was a fan of the Flash but hadn't read any DC book for years I'd be like "WTF!!!".Really,there's no real explanation of how Barry was back or when & where it happened.They coulda done a quick recap on the first page and filled ya in.That's strike one.

Next you have Bart Allen back as Kid Flash.Again,a little editor note that says "Bart returned alive in "x" comic,check it out for the full story" woulda been nice.Strike two.

Savitar returns.Barry touches him.Savitar disintegrates.Barry has the touch of death and looks like all speedsters felt it.Ok,that's kinda cool. That's a double

Somebody recreates the accident that gave Barry speed but we don't see who it is yet.Maybe it's some kind of speedy space bug.Doesn't matter....yet.Ball one.

That's kinda it really.It could've been more but it was just ok.Van Sciver's art was a thing of beauty though.Guess I'll wait to be wowed in another issue.

?? When'd Bart come back?

Legion Of Three Worlds, if I heard correctly. I read Flash Rebirth and as much as I liked the art, and as much as Flash is my favorite character, I'm not buying this. I think comic fans have encouraged DilDio enough.

I just read it. So Flash outran Death, so he's the new Death? The Living Avatar of the Speed Force? An Unappreciative Bastard?

Johns is a crappy writer I'm not much of a Barry Alan fan so I did not get this comic. I may have tried it if someone other than Johns had written it.

I always felt the Wally was a well deserved air to the Flash mantle, and made the character 10 times more interesting than Barry was, and as saddened as I was about Barry's demise, I always hoped and prayed that he would be one of the few characters to stay dead, as it would really mean something to have such a A-list character stay dead.

I'm glad I dont read this shit anymore!

Barry spends half the issue wondering why he's back. Join the club, buddy!

I did like to see Van Sciver draw Bart again (his Impulse run, probably one of the first things he did at DC, was awesome). Apparently he cares a lot for the character and made sure DC didn't drag him through the mud anymore.

I'm worried about Wally, though. Ok, the way his kids were presented in the last Flash series wasn't very good. But still, Wally having kids is a progressive idea, it moves the story forward, which is the coolest thing about Flash comics (or at least it was before they brought back Barry). I get the feeling at least one of those kids is gonna die in this mini, possibly Linda too. That would fucking suck.

So much for the Flash legacy passing on. We can't even get rid of Jay Garrick.... and now we have Barry Allen back. Ho-hum.

Although the touch of death is going to make his sex life interesting. Iris, better make him wear a condom, and remember, no kissing.

Yeah, the thing that made Flash unique and fun was the legacy aspect of the character: Jay to Barry to Wally. Now, its' almost like a Red Speedsters Corps.

The pisser with DC is they actually made some huge decisions over the years in killing big names like Barry and Hal, decisions that were sposed to be final unlike a death of Superman, Wonder Woman or Batman which are always known as being temporary.

As much as Barry and (especially) Hal are two of my faves from years gone by, their stories should have ended when they died (or in Hals case, maybe he should not have died but stayed as Parallax), but DC just have no respect for the characters or fans anymore, and just give in to whiney fanboys or think this will be a huge money spinner, so fuck how meaningful their deaths were.

I agree with Barry, not so much with Hal. Far from a gutsy move it was merely the third attempt at replacing him (John and Guy were the earlier attempts). Kyle was less an innovation than an attempt at appealing to a demographic at that point, made all the more pointless because we had a valid successor (John) already.

Basically they fucked up the GL storyline up from the beginning and only made it worse with every attempt at repairing it. By the end, an evil space bug that lived in his ass didn't seem so out of place.

Barry Allen died in Crisis.

Hal Jordan went nutso, and then killed himself in the sun.

Oliver Queen was killed saving his city from a bomb.

Anything after that involving these "characters", I just ignore...

You may think it's stupid or out of character, but you can't say it wasn't gutsy. Turning a square-jawed superhero into a major villain is the kind of idea anyone would hate if they were reading the book at the time, but it made a kick-ass character origin for anyone who wasn't. And the overwhelming majority wasn't. For anyone who jumped in at that point, the fact that this guy had been published as a superhero for 30 years only made the concept cooler.

Kyle isn't any less of an "attempt at appealing to a demographic" than Spider-Man or the Human Torch. Or John himself, some would say. I don't see how that takes anything away from the character.

I don't know... The Kevin Smith run on GA was pretty awesome, though it helped having Phil Hester do the art....

I read that the other day. It wasn't as good as I'd heard. The whole "soulless body" thing was pretty silly, and understandably forgotten by now.

The only thing I liked was Parallax's involvement (and the Final Night tie-in aspect in general). Hal Spectre, on the other hand...

aye.

That's all true in theory. The problem was that it was executed poorly.

Case in point: one day the writers/editors decided that they needed a Hispanic superhero and so, rather than create one, it was revealed (by Winnick) that Kyle's dad was really Mexican and that his Irish last name was an alias.

Ooooh....kay.

There's appealing to a demographic and then there's stupid retconning and out of context heel turns. Far too much of the Hal/Kyle story over the past 15-20 years consisted of the latter.

That happened 7 or more years after Kyle was introduced, and it's been ignored by other writers since Winnick left. It's not the first time a writer does something stupid with a good character. Doesn't mean they're ruined forever.

I didn't say Kyle was ruined forever. Overall, I think Kyle's a good character. I was just saying that it was one of many examples of how DC kept bungling a good concept and making things worse, not better.

In contrast, until recently, DC handled the Flash story much better. Barry died in a memorable way that paid honor to both him and his fans. His logical successor took over and spent years developing into his own man in an generally consistent arc. A new sidekick (Bart) showed up, different from the last sideick but similar enough to continue the legacy theme. Meanwhile, Barry stayed dead.

I think where it lies in is how Green Lantern was doing before the Rebirth series came out.Winick's run was hit or miss with most fans from issue to issue.Sometimes it was pretty good sometimes it was pretty bad.Point is after Winick was Ben Raab I think and his run was lackluster at best.The Hal Spectre series was going nowhere and DC had to come up with something.Enter Geoff Johns and "Rebirth".Ron Marz came back to wrap up Kyle's run and DC ended the Spectre and then launched "Rebirth" and now Green Lantern is one of DC top-selling titles consistently since it relaunched.Green Lantern Corps is a steady seller and the Sinestro Corps war was regarded much better than Secret Invasion or Final Crisis as a story and the upcoming "Blackest Night" looks to be a huge event.

Soooooo DC is wanting to recapture lightning in a bottle(no pun intended there) with the Flash.After Infinite Crisis,Bart's Flash serie failed(though I liked Guggenheim's handle on the character at the end).Now they said all along that that was the plan but I dunno if that's really the case or them saying that.So they bring Wally back and start his book back up but it didn't click with many fans so DC says "Hey!! Let's bring Barry back!! It worked with Hal." However I think the plan is poorly executed an really what reason is there to having Barry back other than to appease the Silver-Age love that's taken over the DC office of late? Now I hate to quick-judge after only one issue but I just don't see the point other than to grab some quick sales.

I'm not talking so much about replacing him (btw, Guy was NEVER a replacement), I am talking about actually turning him into a villain.
That was a huge move on DCs part. Never before had an A-list DC character become a supervillain (a mass murdering one at that).

Two ayes.

Parallax, the rogue Leaguer with unlimited power, as a threat would be much more meaningful than having Hal Jordan reincarnated and back in the JLA. New or old reader, it would be compellng.

Someone here said something interesting a few months ago, that with the reintroduction of parallel earths, why didn't they do a world where worst case scenarios played out? Superman still dead at the hands of Doomsday, Azbats still in action wih Bruce Wayne in a wheechair, Wonder Woman the goddess of truth on Mt Olympus with Artemis kicking arse, and, of course, Barry Allen dead as a doornail and Hal Jordan causing cosmic strife as Parallax. Would be a good Elseworlds if nothing else.

Me.



Aye Aye Aye...

I prefer Wally....Barry was great, but he died. It took me years to accept Wally as Flash. He grew on me as a character and eventually ended up liking him better. wally went through a plethora of writers and artists and goofy storylines, but eventually his character and personality meshed and he was Flash. I accepted this and was fine with it.

They ended up ruining Wally though to sell a mini series that sucked. Having him get married and have kids that aged 12 years in less than a year just blew...that is why I hate Didio. Well, that and Sue Dibny.

Wally was a natural progression being that he was the sidekick for years, unlike Connor and Kyle which were either shoehorned in or had no connection to the character at all.

I loved the early issues of the new Flash book when it launched after the Legends mini, as Wally was all about tradition by sticking with the classic costume etc, but was a completely different person with his cockier, less mature attitude.

Barry was great in his day, but Wally superceded him and made Barry unecessary to be brought back.

I also think, unlike Hal, there were rarely any calls to bring Barry back from the fans.
Fans accepted he was dead, and died heroically, and I think they wanted it to stay that way for respect!

I concur.

It also demonstrates that mainstream comics are an immature medium for good storytelling.

How can you expect good character development and plot progression when they keep pointlessly bringing dead characters back?

This review seems to imply that the story is written as if Barry has actually been gone for twenty-plus years in DCU continuity:

• Barry is not seeking salvation or forgiveness for his trespasses, he is a man trying to find his place in a world that has become virtually unrecognizable.
  
  As Keystone City gets ready to honor the return of Barry Allen with parades and other such fanfare we are presented with a man who is quite simply lost. It wasn’t until I saw our modern world of cell phones, text messaging and other Web based trappings through Barry’s eyes that I realized how much our lives have changed over the past quarter century. The irony of a man who can travel faster than light grappling with the concept of instant messaging is just one of the subtle nuances Johns carries throughout this title.

Is that really the back story? Because if it is that doesn't make a lot of sense in a continuity where Superman and Batman are supposed to be in their late 30s.

Also, didn't Barry spend time in the FUTURE?

Also, doesn't Geoff Johns SUCK BALLS?

This is the problem with comic books when they try and mix real time with comic time.

If they say Barry has been gone that long, then as G-Man said, that would make Superman etc, be in their 50s (40s at the very least).
It would also make it seem like Barry only operated for a year or so before dying.

And as thedoctor pointed out, the last months of Barrys life were spent living in the 30th century, where I am quiet sure he would have come into contact with technology vastly superior to the modern day.

Maybe what they are gonna do is another Hawkman balls up, where they essentially wipe out a whole bunch of continuity on a whim, then realise how much it actually fucks up the rest of the DCU and have to rectify it with some bullshit new story!

If anything, you'd think he'd be having a hard time coping with being back in the 21st century after being in the 30th century for a while. Hell, that'd be like any of us coping with being in 11th century Rome. They thought they were highly advanced but any of us would have difficulty with their primitive technology and culture.

Whats the betting that they say that he has lost a lot of years from his life, so essentially he is the Barry Allen from his early years, not the experienced super hero who gave up his life.

Didnt they do something similar with Ollie Queen when they returned him to life?

bringing barry back was a very fucking bad idea.

Indeed:



he should have stayed in Kenya....

I don't really give a shit if they say he's been gone since the 80's. Who cares? We know it's true, we know it makes no sense, so fuck it.

What really annoys me is when they say stuff like "This is like when Superman died a couple of years ago, you know, when I was listening to Franz Ferdinand on my iPod!" Oh, give it up! You're not fooling anyone! On whose behalf are you saying that? Is there anyone in the world who expects a constantly shifting chronology to make perfect sense? And for, what, two years before becoming useless again?

I agree with the future thing, though.

wait, are you talking Flash or Obama?