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Outsiders is shaping up. The ONLY negative review I even saw was the one by the fake person at The Pulse.
I would love... LOVE to see John Francis Moore doing a main bat-book. Batman Family was phenomonal. A real gem in the mass of stupid DC minis.
Really... it is just a big pile of shit that Schreck gave the job to Gabrych. I can see a one-shot filler, sure... but ongoing writer? Holy Mageddon!
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
I disliked Tenses, and I definitely dislike Casey. I didn't know the background of it(I assume it's suppose to be a year one-esque story, otherwise his characterization of Bruce is way off), and it wasn't explained very well in the story, so that hurt it.
It was a year one story.
I thought that he totally nailed the young Bruce Wayne's character. I think it was, by far, the best year one story since Miller's, and for me, the best of 2003 (although I really loved Don't Blink).
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
I was dissapointed that he took an interesting character idea for a villain and basically turned it into another cliche batvillain(completely insane, no other motivation for their actions other than being insane).
He was definitely insane, but he was insane for a reason. And I don't think he was meant to be much more than a foil for Bruce in the first place (Bruce being driven crazy because he can't see the future, Teddy being driven crazy because he can see the future, etc.) Casey was contrasting the two.
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quote:
Originally posted by woodstock:
Outsiders is shaping up. The ONLY negative review I even saw was the one by the fake person at The Pulse.
Yeah, but whoever was pretending to be the intern was right.
Going off topic,
Here's what I don't get: why revive the Outsiders?
There's a handful of stupid concepts that are never gonna be able to carry a series; characters that have proven time and again that they appeal to the tiniest niche audience; and yet they continue to get rolled out every five years or so for another 25-issue run before being cancelled and immediately going into redevelopment.
You know? After 30 fucking years you'd think they'd realize that only like 10 people care about the New Gods. How many Spectre and Demon series have there been?
And I'm not saying these are poorly written or poorly drawn books. But when you have to cancel Orion or New Gods or whatever you're calling it this time around for the 15th time, why go back to the well?
The Outsiders is one of those concepts. They couldn't make a go of it with Batman. They couldn't make it work without Batman. And these aren't even the real Outsiders.
And if you wanted to start a new team book, why call it Outsiders and give it that stigma? Are good ideas at such a premium that they couldn't come up with another name?
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quote:
Originally posted by KMT:
I think it was, by far, the best year one story since Miller's, and for me, the best of 2003 (although I really loved Don't Blink).
....well....how many Year One stories have there been? Not a whole lot. At least, not a whole lot that I can remember.....
quote:
He was definitely insane, but he was insane for a reason. And I don't think he was meant to be much more than a foil for Bruce in the first place (Bruce being driven crazy because he can't see the future, Teddy being driven crazy because he can see the future, etc.) Casey was contrasting the two.
I don't see that as the reason for Bruce being "odd".
And still, it's a classic comic book villain cliche, the themed nutcase. It's overdone.
I've never been a fan of Casey, as you might detect from some of the other times I've commented on his work. I find his dialogue to be very self-serving and contrived. Somewhat macho, as well, along the lines of Azzarello in terms of style.
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I liked the Batman and the old Outsiders book. I have every issue Alan Davis did. It was a cult favorite, but still fairly popular. Certainly not nearly as big as the Teen Titans were, but you can't really blame DC for trying to satisfy the fans that have been carrying the industry for decades. Like it or not, it's not financially reasonable to "try new things" all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
....well....how many Year One stories have there been? Not a whole lot. At least, not a whole lot that I can remember.....
Let's see, Miller's Year One, 170 issues of LOTDK with maybe 10-20 being non-year one stories, The Long Halloween, Jeph Loeb's Halloween specials (Did you know there's at least six Halloween's during Year One?), the four Year One annuals, the World's Finest mini and maxi. ...
Year One stories are a Batman cliche. It's easier to name the stories that weren't set in Batman's first year.
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
I don't see that as the reason for Bruce being "odd".
In what way was he odd?
And I'm not a Joe Casey fan. His Adventures of Superman run could probably be required reading in a How Not To Write Superhero Comics class.
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I've read Long Halloween and Year One. Didn't read World's Finest. All the LOTDK issues I've read were ambiguous as to the time period. Didn't read any of the Year One annuals.
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I have the first 25 or so issues of the first Outsiders series. Someone on the DC boards referred to it as a guilty pleasure. It's bad. But it's so bad that it's enjoyable. And Barr is such a dick (and I mean that in the best sense). The letter columns are worth whatever it costs to track the books down. Love when he rips into fans who write in to say the book sucks. quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Like it or not, it's not financially reasonable to "try new things" all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
But is it financially reasonable to go back to a proven failure again and again? How many times would you have to flush a dollar bill down your toilet before realizing you're not going to get anything in return?
New Gods (1971) 19 issues
Mister Miracle (1971) 25 issues
New Gods (1984) 6 issues
New Gods (1989) 28 issues
Mister Miracle (1989) 28 issues
New Gods (1995) 15 issues
Mister Miracle (1995) 7 issues
Fourth World (1997) 20 issues
Orion (2000) 25 issues
There may be others out there. And someone correct me if one one of these was a mini or a reprint series.
Still. ...
And looking at those dates, it looks like we're about due for a new Mister Miracle series.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
I've read Long Halloween and Year One. Didn't read World's Finest. All the LOTDK issues I've read were ambiguous as to the time period. Didn't read any of the Year One annuals.
I haven't been able to get through either World's Finest series. Did Kesel write them both?
I don't think LOTDK was meant to be a Year One book, but that's kind of how it worked out. Almost all the stories are pre-Robin stories, and Gordon is almost always referred to as Lt. Gordon or Captain Gordon, so there somewhere during Batman's first two years or so.
And some are clearly Year One. Shaman shows Bruce coming back to Gotham, Prey shows him building the Batmobile. ... In lots of them he says he's new at this, or he's only been doing this for a few weeks or months.
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Not every book sells well. There are exceptions to every rule. However, with the "revamps", the success/failure ratio is far higher than with the "new books". An unfortunate fact.
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The early LOTDK tried to tie in the Miller's Yr 1. After that I think they became more non specific.
I think Dave Gibbons may have written one of the Worlds Finests.
I didn't enjoy so much of Alan Grant's later stuff, but the Breyfogle years were great. That's what I grew up on.
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I liked Grant's run on Tec with Breyfogle. Didn't care much for Shadow of the Bat.
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Can someone explain why Azzarello gets so much hype? His "Batman" may actually be worse than Loeb's.
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Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
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It is worse than Loeb's. His "voice" for 100 bullets is great. But unfortunatley he uses the same "voice" for everything. Gee I can't wait for his Superman... ![[um.... uh huh! ... ]](graemlins/umuhhuh001.gif) Insert sarcasm...
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quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
It is worse than Loeb's. His "voice" for 100 bullets is great. But unfortunatley he uses the same "voice" for everything. Gee I can't wait for his Superman...
Insert sarcasm...
I read the first two 100 Bullets trades. For the most part, they were fairly entertaining, if somewhat predictable, but I have absolutely no desire to follow the story any further.
So why do people act like it's the comic book equivalent of crack?
As for his Batman -- abso-fucking-lutely awful. How can anyone enjoy this?
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i said that at the Dc boards and everyone called me a troll..I'm thinking of getting banned theer really soon and letting the bat nerds have it.
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quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
i said that at the Dc boards and everyone called me a troll..I'm thinking of getting banned theer really soon and letting the bat nerds have it.
Takes one to know one.
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Personally aside from a few glaring continuity issues and god talk I see nothing wrong with Azzarello's Batman. I don't know what everyone is bitching about. ![[eh?]](images/icons/confused.gif)
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Same here, Anonymous One. I actually like it.
For once Batman isn't the inhuman automaton Jeph Loeb made him out to be.
"I am Batman. This is my city. Selina..."
The first part of Broken City was a little out of character, but I think it's fine with the second part.
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Same here, Anonymous One. I actually like it.
For once Batman isn't the inhuman automaton Jeph Loeb made him out to be.
"I am Batman. This is my city. Selina..."
The first part of Broken City was a little out of character, but I think it's fine with the second part.
Yeah, I had a problem with Batman talking about God so much (he's been portrayed as an atheist since the 70's) and him not using proper sentences, but issue two blew me away. I'm enjoying this more than Hush, maybe even Ed Brubaker's run.
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It's not the story. It's the way it's written.
The dialogue is just terrible. It's so bad it's embarassing. That whole bit about how he grills to relax and Allen using it as a metaphor for "grilling" a suspect.
Fucking awful.
The part where he talks about "Farmer Croc" and "Alley Gator" was brutal as well.
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