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Anone see this? Waid is off, probably because he didn't want to go down Jemas's suggested route of suburban comedy and Jemas is to write. No feedbackers at Newsarama and Pulse think this is a good idea. I don't read it, so it's no personal loss, but it's getting great critical/fan response and readership is up. What I'm wondering is if it's a sign that Marvel's great resurgence of the last few years may be about to come to an end courtesy of some very bad ideas.
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Hm.
Bill Jemas is an idiot. Fantastic Four is at its creative best in over half a decade right now. It's also selling the best it has in the same span of time.
And Jemas wanted to turn it into a sitcom. Which he will get to do when he takes over after Waid leaves.
Frankly, after reading that, it would really make me happy to see Fantastic Four cancelled within two years after Jemas takes over. Marville didn't last long... I'm betting Jem-Ass on Fan 4 will last maybe a shade longer before they need a real writer to revive the nearly dead book.
I'll happily be dropping Fan 4 with issue #508. I'll give my money to DC. I don't support stupidity.
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I don't read the title, and even I know its about adventure, not comedy.
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From the newsarama article: "A few weeks ago, Bill [Jemas] phoned and tried to convince me to jettison our high-adventure approach and everything else we've been doing in favor of making the FF a wacky suburban dramedy where Reed's a nutty professor who creates amazing but impractical inventions, Sue's the office-temp breadwinner, the cranky neighbor is their new "arch-enemy", etc.
Damn.
You all realize what Jemas is doing, dont you?
At first glance, I thought "He's turning the Fantastic Four into 'Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius,' (which might be a fine cartoon, but it aint the Fantastic Four) simply to capitalize on the Nik crowd.
And then, it hit me.
The bastard is making a pre-emptive strike on Pixar.
As you might recall, Pixar's next film, after Finding Nemo, is "the Impossibles."
Based on the preview I've seen, the Impossibles is a comedy about a family of superheroes.
It comes out in the theaters the same day that the Fantastic Four movie is scheduled to be released.
So Jemas is turning FF into "the Impossibles" for a few months before the general public has the chance to figure out what the Impossibles is.
Then, he can both claim that Marvel did the "family of superheroes" thing first and also release an "impossibles"-style trade paperback, along with the other, more traditional, Marvel books when the FF movie comes out.
Effin bastard.
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quote:
Originally posted by First National Bastard:
I'll happily be dropping Fan 4 with issue #508. I'll give my money to DC. I don't support stupidity.
Me too. This is sad, very sad. 
The number of Marvel titles I collect is dwindling fast! To think there was a time when I bought almost everything they published. Quesada and Jemas just don't want my money.
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Don't want to seem too high and mighty, but i saw stuff like this coming a while ago. I quit Marvel books over a year ago. granted I have picked up the odd book and a few 25 and 9 cent books, but that's it..
My problem is I don't like the Jemas/Quesada team..I honestly think they were and are ruining Marvel until new leadership comes in...
My leaving Marvel books behind was in protest and my way of saying.."you've lost my 100 bucks a month, go screw yourselves"..
Yeah, my money doesn't mean much by myself, but if there were more people like me then we could be rid of Quemas and the books might be readable again...
I don't mind progressive books, I just don't like the Quemas monster and until they leave I won't waste my time on Marvel books....
Now maybe waid and Ringo will go back to DC where they belong anyway.. I'd love to see Ringo take over the new Teen Titans book and see McKone go to a book that fits his style better...like Superman or JLA.
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quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Now maybe waid and Ringo will go back to DC where they belong anyway.. I'd love to see Ringo take over the new Teen Titans book and see McKone go to a book that fits his style better...like Superman or JLA.
Wieringo already did a spin on The Adventures of Superman...and he didn't even last a year. (Shame, because he draws a great Supes. ![[sad]](images/icons/frown.gif) )
As for Waid...well, he's been wanting to take over Superman for a while now. Maybe if Birthright makes a dent in the direct sales market, DC will wake up and let him have at the Man of Steel. (Although personally, I wouldn't bet on it.) As for Jemas, I fully agree that he and Quesada are doing more harm than good to Marvel. Quesada shouls stick to pencilling and leave the editing to people who are actual professionals. Jemas, on the other hand, is the Jon Peters of comic books. The sooner the industry's rid of him, the better.
And I will be dropping Fantastic Four as soon was Waid's last issue hits.
EDIT: Just realized I misread Pig Iron's quote. He was talking about McKone on Superman (in fact, he did some fill-ins from '99-00), not Wieringo. Sorry! ![[gulp!]](gulp.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by the G-man:
...Jemas is turning FF into "the Impossibles" for a few months before the general public has the chance to figure out what the Impossibles is.
Then, he can both claim that Marvel did the "family of superheroes" thing first and also release an "impossibles"-style trade paperback, along with the other, more traditional, Marvel books when the FF movie comes out.
Effin bastard.
That makes so much sense it isn't funny. Damn him.
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Y'know,more and more ,I'm glad I dropped Marvel awhile back when Jemas and Quesada took over.
It's too bad that so many of Marvels fans buy whatever they put out no matter what.
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quote:
Originally posted by Wednesday:
That makes so much sense it isn't funny. Damn him.
Ditto.
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the worst thing I have ever heard.
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I'm glad I stay away from pretty much any Marvel comic anymore. I haven't liked their quality enough to buy any crap they put out for a while. Though, Waid is one of my favorite writers I'm almost certain it was going good till Jemas showed up. Jemas is a complete ass. His executive decisions to put out books like Marville or a FF comedy are going to run Marvel into the ground, IMO. He's not even a real fucking writer. The only Marvel things I'll spend my money on would be the movies.
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quote:
Originally posted by Gladiator X:
Y'know,more and more ,I'm glad I dropped Marvel awhile back when Jemas and Quesada took over.
It's too bad that so many of Marvels fans buy whatever they put out no matter what.
And I NEVER would buy MARVEL regularly until recently with The Ultimate Books, Morrisson on X-men and Jenkins' Incredible Hulk.
I think you guys are just pissed that MARVEL is growing past the DC style costumes and black/white template you all grew up with in favour of a more Ellis/Ennis/Moore/Millar style of writing.
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Jemas' idea for the FF sounds so nutty, I can barely wrap my brain around it either -- the closest thing I can think of what he might intend is something like the "Powerpuff Girls", with the nutty professor, the arch-nemesis next door neighbor? ... I dunno. ![[no no no]](graemlins/nono.gif) Too bad -- I was enjoying Waid's run, and I haven't collected FF since Simonson's run almost ten years ago.
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quote:
Originally posted by whomod:
quote:
Originally posted by Gladiator X:
Y'know,more and more ,I'm glad I dropped Marvel awhile back when Jemas and Quesada took over.
It's too bad that so many of Marvels fans buy whatever they put out no matter what.
And I NEVER would buy MARVEL regularly until recently with The Ultimate Books, Morrisson on X-men and Jenkins' Incredible Hulk.
I think you guys are just pissed that MARVEL is growing past the DC style costumes and black/white template you all grew up with in favour of a more Ellis/Ennis/Moore/Millar style of writing.
I have to admit I'm of the same ilk. I'd have never bought a Marvel book within the past 8 years (when Claremont left X-men and continuity went to pot), except for the innovation which Quesada and Jemas have bought to the company.
Sitting in my bookshelf is Morrison's X-men, Black Panther Vol. 1, the surprisingly excellent Hulk: Transfer of Power tpb, and Alfred's X-force. Would I have bought them if not for the chance which the new editors at Marvel took to break the mould? Not a chance in hell, especially X-force and Hulk. And I'm going to be buying The Punisher in the near future. I would never have done that even 2 years ago. Punisher was for gun nuts and 12 year olds who want some macho in their literary diet.
Sure, they've screwed up - Marville leaps to mind. But stuff like the Rawhide Kid has also paid off. I think this "suburban" version of FF is a mistake. But I'll guess we'll all see.
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Yeah. Just for the record, the Fantastic Four revamp does sound rather lame. I'm guessing this has more to do with Chris Columbus' FF film than it does with that Pixar project.
Waid also is the wrong type of guy to do radical revamps anyways though. I picture him more the traditional reverential type of guy who would want to bring things to their roots rather than radically alter something to where it no longer resembles it's former self. No, that's not a dig on Waid.
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Email all complaints directly to Bill at mrmxy@hotmail.com
and isnt it the Incredibles?
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quote:
Originally posted by whomod:
Waid also is the wrong type of guy to do radical revamps anyways though. I picture him more the traditional reverential type of guy who would want to bring things to their roots rather than radically alter something to where it no longer resembles it's former self. No, that's not a dig on Waid.
You're exactly right about Waid. Personally, that's why I've always sorta dug his writing style. Too bad Jemas is too much of an ass to let a genius like him work.
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quote:
Originally posted by THE Franta:
Email all complaints directly to Bill at mrmxy@hotmail.com
and isnt it the Incredibles?
You were too, honey.
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Obviously..misinformation. He couldn't say Waid was lying because it would be Libel..so he did his best to insinuate it. BSAMS is right Quemas are donkey fuckers.... Waid's book was selling, etc...Creative freedom is an illusion at marvel...Once again it's about the dollar..which is fine, but be honest....
I just marvel at why Brevoort is still at marvel. His books are the ones that get all the interference. Is he even editing anymore? From Iron man, Avengers to Fantastic Four jemas keeps getting creators mad...
Notice how Quesada takes pot shots at the internet crowd at the beginning of his rant as well. He basically thinks we all masturbate to pictures of she-hulk in momma's basement. What an ass.... Oh My gosh imagine people actually liking a shameful hobby like comics enough to talk to other fans about it..shudder...Gee, I guess no comic fans have wifes or girlfriends or have professions...whatta dickweed... I used to only resent jemas , but about a year ago I realized quesada was a cocksucker too..
You literally have to be insane to buy a marvel book if you have read anything those 2 fucks say about comic fans.. I can understand people buying marvel books that don't frequent the net, but honestly why would anyone support the tenure of those jerks??
Yeah the hulk and x-men might be good..spidey might be good....but that doesn't excuse curmudgeonly behavior...
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Yeah, Queseda failed to see the point. Jemas writing the book was bad, sure, but the real atrocity was that Waid was fired in the first place(despite being both a critical and financial success on a book that was struggling to keep its' head above water). That's still the issue. If Joe thinks that he's put out that fire, then he's quite mistaken.
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At the moment Marvel have a habit of trying to misdirect from the point of the arguement with a few snide remarks and steering the conversation towards something else like, in this case, the fact that Jemas has, whether we like it or not, turn the company around financially.
So what? It's atill a dumb play to take a writer off a critical and comercial success.
Joe Q having a go at us because we dared to believe what Mark Waid said (bastards that we are) is a bit much.
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quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
You literally have to be insane to buy a marvel book if you have read anything those 2 fucks say about comic fans.. I can understand people buying marvel books that don't frequent the net, but honestly why would anyone support the tenure of those jerks??
Yeah the hulk and x-men might be good..spidey might be good....but that doesn't excuse curmudgeonly behavior...
Would you boycott the releases of your favourite rock band because you don't like the record company executives?
I may not agree with everything Jemas and Quesada say or do. But X-Men is a damn good read (despite the inconsistent quality of the art being a huge let down when I read the second tpb).
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I don't have to boycott because of the execs.. their stupid decisions are making my decisions for me. Pretty Soon, all I'll have left are the Captains (Marvel and America), Punisher, Hulk, Spider-Girl, and Amazing Spider-Man. That's down from all four core titles (Fan 4, Iron Man, Avengers, Cap), Black Panther, Thunderbolts, and Daredevil. With Iron Man, Fan 4, and Avengers, my choice was made because the respecive writers were the only reason I picked up the books again. Daredevil became Boring once Bendis took over. I refuse to read anything by Bendis. He's hype. And Thunderbolts... no words will say what a smilie can do better I hated the Captain Marvel reboot, but I trust Peter David. However, since Cap beat out Jemass, I wouldn't doubt if CM is gone within a year. I don't have to boycott a thing. Marvel makes my decisions for me, and I spend my money elsewhere.
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quote:
I don't have to boycott because of the execs.. their stupid decisions are making my decisions for me.
Exactly.
A few years ago, I was buying a ton of Marvel's books. With every passing month, a few more leave my pull list. FF being simply the latest.
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Right, if you like the direction fine. My point is that if I don't like what Lars Ulrich represents why should I buy a new Metallica CD..no matter what I think of their music I fuel the idiocy of Lars by supporting him financially. Granted, I am extreme in my disgust for Quemas...but I'm also not gonna give them money to get salaries, because they annoy me more than I find enjoyment out of their product..
Quite honestly guys, I love Marvel as much as the next guy and have a leaning towards more of their characters and villains than I do DCs. I just don't like what they are doing to and how the are treating the same charcters...and yes I know they are fictional...
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Yeah, Queseda failed to see the point. Jemas writing the book was bad, sure, but the real atrocity was that Waid was fired in the first place(despite being both a critical and financial success on a book that was struggling to keep its' head above water). That's still the issue. If Joe thinks that he's put out that fire, then he's quite mistaken.
I feel the same way, and I don't read Fantastic Four. Why mess with something that's working? That almost never works no matter where it's done (movies, TV, comics, ...).
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I haven't read the FF since the Byrne years, and I'm really not a fan of Waid. I bought the 9 cent issue and threw it away, I just didn't like it.
But seriously, this Jemas thing sounds like a piece of crap.
And yeah, it sounds like he's trying to "revamp" it to fit the mold of the FF movie their attempting to put out, which was initially described as a Family Comedy.
Oh, and Quesada is a complete asshole. When I last went to the Chicago Wizard World a couple years ago, my friends and I saw he was signing at a table. We walked up to him, stood directly in front of him. One of my friends, a cute girl, started talking to him. He just stood up, looking directy at us, and walked away only to get stopped by Joe Casey, whom he then proceeded to have a lengthy conversation with. And he still had like 10 minutes left in his signing schedule.
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quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Obviously..misinformation. He couldn't say Waid was lying because it would be Libel..so he did his best to insinuate it. BSAMS is right Quemas are donkey fuckers.... Waid's book was selling, etc...Creative freedom is an illusion at marvel...Once again it's about the dollar..which is fine, but be honest....
$10 says Jemas and his planned direction WERE a go for the book before Waid revealed why he was fired. Any changes these guys made were obviously last-minute after the outcry hit.
quote:
I just marvel at why Brevoort is still at marvel. His books are the ones that get all the interference. Is he even editing anymore? From Iron man, Avengers to Fantastic Four jemas keeps getting creators mad...
Good point. Why doesn't Brevoort make the jump to a another company? CrossGen and Image would probably be glad to have him, for example. Quesada and Jemas certainly aren't doing him any favors.
quote:
Notice how Quesada takes pot shots at the internet crowd at the beginning of his rant as well. He basically thinks we all masturbate to pictures of she-hulk in momma's basement. What an ass.... Oh My gosh imagine people actually liking a shameful hobby like comics enough to talk to other fans about it..shudder...Gee, I guess no comic fans have wifes or girlfriends or have professions...whatta dickweed... I used to only resent jemas , but about a year ago I realized quesada was a cocksucker too..
The sooner Quesada realizes his only talent is for pencilling, the better. He's easily the worst EIC in Marvel's history. And Jemas is still nothing more than a Jon Peters wannabe. Sheesh, even though Jim Shooter could be abrasive, he at least cared about quality. These guys couldn't care less.
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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Obviously..misinformation. He couldn't say Waid was lying because it would be Libel..so he did his best to insinuate it. BSAMS is right Quemas are donkey fuckers.... Waid's book was selling, etc...Creative freedom is an illusion at marvel...Once again it's about the dollar..which is fine, but be honest....
$10 says Jemas and his planned direction WERE a go for the book before Waid revealed why he was fired. Any changes these guys made were obviously last-minute after the outcry hit.
I find it highly suspect that they let a writer, especially one who has done so much for a book as Waid has FF, leave over disagreement with a direction that they aren't even going to take.
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
quote:
Originally posted by Pig Iron:
Obviously..misinformation. He couldn't say Waid was lying because it would be Libel..so he did his best to insinuate it. BSAMS is right Quemas are donkey fuckers.... Waid's book was selling, etc...Creative freedom is an illusion at marvel...Once again it's about the dollar..which is fine, but be honest....
$10 says Jemas and his planned direction WERE a go for the book before Waid revealed why he was fired. Any changes these guys made were obviously last-minute after the outcry hit.
I find it highly suspect that they let a writer, especially one who has done so much for a book as Waid has FF, leave over disagreement with a direction that they aren't even going to take.
So do I. I doubt Waid would have been canned like that unless Jeams and Quesada were actually going to push ahead with that direction.
This whole thing smells of backpedaling.
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Waid...fired? From the most enjoyable, best-selling Fantastic Four in years? How incredible! That's like University of Georgia forcing out their Athletic Director, the legendary Vince Dooley! Never happen, right?
I tell ya, presidents ain't got no fool sense these days. I was considering picking up FF, too.
But I'm a little surprised at the anti-Marvel vitriol here. I find many Marvel books to be at their best in many, many years. If I had the stomach for dropping $$$ for a dozen more monthly comics than the 3.5 I currently buy, Marvels would dominate the list.
But I haven't paid any attention to the politics behind the comics, only to the end product.
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As you should do. quote:
Originally posted by First National Bastard:
I don't have to boycott because of the execs.. their stupid decisions are making my decisions for me.
Exactly. But if those books you mentioned were still good quality, would you buy them despite the idiocy of the Quesada/Jemas regime?
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny:
As you should do.
quote:
Originally posted by First National Bastard:
I don't have to boycott because of the execs.. their stupid decisions are making my decisions for me.
Exactly. But if those books you mentioned were still good quality, would you buy them despite the idiocy of the Quesada/Jemas regime?
Precisely. Once upon a time, comic books were judged by their worth. The internet has made a celebrity of every arsehole editor who once would have been a nameless face.
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny:
As you should do.
quote:
Originally posted by First National Bastard:
I don't have to boycott because of the execs.. their stupid decisions are making my decisions for me.
Exactly. But if those books you mentioned were still good quality, would you buy them despite the idiocy of the Quesada/Jemas regime?
Danny, pull out of that sheep and read for a second!
I currently buy Punisher, Spider-Girl, Amazing Spider-Man, Captain America, Captain Marvel, Fan 4, Iron Man, Avengers, and probably another Marvel book I'm forgetting.
When Grell is off of Iron Man, I'm leaving.
When Johns leaves Avengers, so will I.
When Waid leaves Fan 4, I go too.
If a book strikes my fancy, I buy it. Yes, I am helping support the assholes in charge, but hey, I pay taxes to a government run by an idiotic cokehead every week too.
For me, it is still about the quality of a book. If the quality drops (Thunderbolts), or a creative team I don't like comes on board (Dan Jurgens or Bill Jemas), I drop it. Some writers have a guaranteed track record of crapulence. Some I just don't like. It's my decision on how I justify dropping a title. If editorial idiocy has to factor into that with some books, so be it.
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