CBS's 'instant polls' showed Obama winning the debate; but when they talked to the group of undecided voters in their studio, most of those people said that McCain had won. I dunno. I felt McCain was stronger in this debate than Obama. Obama got flustered at the mention of Ayers and straight up lied. Not a nice, thought out slight of hand lie that he usually offers, but a solid 'that ain't nowhere near the truth' lie. Still nowhere near the specifics that I wanted on the issues, but Obama's BS about his tax plan and health care, which I still have no idea how he's going to pay for it, seemed a bit more transparent. I love McCain's line, "If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have done it four years ago."
Oh, and, Uschi, McCain didn't just talk about rewarding good teachers. He also mentioned getting rid of the bad. Look at it this way, if McCain is president, Elisa is out of a job.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet."
You should have waited a little longer and thought that one through completely. You can try again, if you like...
well think about it. you basically said 'all the smart people are voting for obama and if you're not then you're a big fat stupidhead'. more or less. saying voting for obama is automatically 'thinking for yourself' is about the same thing as those random gaggles of atheists calling themselves 'free-thought' groups. doesn't necessarily mean they're not telling the truth, but it almost always takes on a pejorative connotation - 'we think for ourselves and you don't' - ignoring the irony of using an us/them paradigm to defend one's own individuality.
that's the peril of intellectualism. vanity. people are so intent on defending their cerebral street cred that they'll follow the harvard herd(/stanford stampede/columbia crowd) wherever they go. it basically reduces the intelligentsia to another special-interest group in the left's back pocket, which I see both as a travesty and an intriguing little challenge. if you're honest with yourself, more often than not you and I and most everyone else tend to follow the herd on at least some political issues. so in the end, about all that's left of that particular argument is 'my herd is better than your herd'. most everything beyond that is a product of one's own narcissism. hence the mirror reference.
A casual glance over these threads reveal all I need to show you, G-Mod. it's not up to me to hold your hand and lead you down the path of enlightenment. It's right there for every intelligent person to discern.
Quote:
Because "Republicans are Sheep" is hardly a substantive matter of debate. It's just sloganeering.
Something which you are certainly versed at, right? Praise Allah! Terrorist-Sympathizer! Etc. Etc. Etc. You are the king of "sloganeering". So, please don't try and act hurt when someone uses your exact methods on you in return...
so in the end, about all that's left of that particular argument is 'my herd is better than your herd'. most everything beyond that is a product of one's own narcissism.
And the sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop being a 'Yes-Man' to everything The Extreme Right trots out on these boards...
big_pimp_tim-made it cool to roll in the first damn place! Mon Jun 11 2007 09:27 PM-harley finally rolled with me "I'm working with him...he's young but, there is much potential. He can apprentice with me and then he's yours for final training. He will remember the face of his father...
Some day, Knutreturns just may be the greatest of us all...."-THE bastard
And the sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop being a 'Yes-Man' to everything The Extreme Right trots out on these boards... or at least that's what whomod told me to say
don't, g-man. you're just gonna make things worse.
in context:
Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch
if you're honest with yourself, more often than not you and I and most everyone else tend to follow the herd on at least some political issues. so in the end, about all that's left of that particular argument is 'my herd is better than your herd'. most everything beyond that is a product of one's own narcissism.
pro, you're a smart guy, and I wasn't attempting to disparage your intelligence. but seriously - you are starting to sound kinda hypocritical calling me a yes-man. doesn't mean I'm guiltless, of course, but have you been reading some of the stuff you've been recycling in your own posts lately? come on, man.
Hey that's fine. I've said my bit. You can all take the next two or three pages of this thread and form a running dialogue that automatically insults me and badmouthes Obama at the same time. That's all you guys tend to do, anyway, right?
Hey that's fine. I've said my bit. You can all take the next two or three pages of this thread and form a running dialogue that automatically insults me and badmouthes Obama at the same time. That's all you guys tend to do, anyway, right?
We speak the truth to power Lord Promod. Please don't turn us in to the Obama Thought Police.
Hey that's fine. I've said my bit. You can all take the next two or three pages of this thread and form a running dialogue that automatically insults me and badmouthes Obama at the same time. That's all you guys tend to do, anyway, right?
whomod User some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm? 5000+ posts 10/16/08 03:28 PM Making a new reply Forum: Politics and Current Events Thread: Re: The Third and Final Presidential Debate 10/15/08
He's probably writing another long diatribe about how he hates black people.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet."
When is McCain gonna go viral with this? After Obama said he had no other relationship with Acorn than when he represented them in court, I was expecting McCain to pull this out of his hat, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! McCain is too concerned with looking like a guy who can get by on platitudes.
So Obama won again and almost unanimously, everyone says that McCain FAILED to revive his sagging fortunes. All he managed to do was make himself look angry and rambling. he was like an old Model T attack machine, rambling incoherent right wing attacks, most of the time completely out of the context of the subject at hand, they'd come unexpectedly and jarringly, like if the rickety attack machine backfired or something.
Even the fOX news focus group called it for Obama. Of course FOX didn't release the actual numbers,but the real news outlets did:
From The New Republic. Look at the favorability ratings - they HATED McCain. Obama's favorability went from 42 before the debate to 72 after. McCain dropped from 54 before to 50 after. But then look at the unfavorable rating. Obama's unfavorables dropped from 42 to 22. McCain's, however, rose from 34 to 48. And, this was a focus grouped that was undecided, but started out leaning towards Mccain.
Quote:
Stan Greenberg briefed reporters on his focus group of undecided voters in Colorado. He said the respondents felt Obama "won" and that the results were "more decisive than either of the last two." That's a reference to Greenberg's previous focus groups, which also came away preferring Obama.
The most striking result came on the favorability ratings. Although the focus group was officially undecided, it leaned towards McCain. Here were the favorability-unfavorability ratings for each candidate at the start:
McCain: 54 favorable / 34 unfavorable
Obama: 42 favorable / 42 unfavorable
Here's what the ratings looked like after the debate:
McCain: 50 favorable / 48 unfavorable
Obama: 72 favorable / 22 unfavorable
CNN Poll: Obama wins debate, 58-31
CBS Poll: Obama wins debate 53-22 Holy cow!!!!
Fifty-three percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed identified Democratic nominee Barack Obama as the winner of tonight's debate. Twenty-two percent said Republican rival John McCain won. Twenty-four percent saw the debate as a draw.
ABC News (George Stephanopoulos) McCain’s Best Debate, But Obama Still Won: During a fast-paced, spirited, and sometimes heated debate, McCain had his best debate, but Obama still won. WINNER: Obama. STRATEGY: Obama: A McCain: A STYLE: Obama: A McCain: A- ACCURACY: Obama: B McCain: B
and here is the nights most damaging part for McCain:
TIME (Jim Poniewozik) Women Don’t Like It: Dial group report 2: Um, Sen. McCain, women don't like it when you put "health of the mother" in air quotes.
In a race in which millions of dollars have been spent for the votes of American women, McCain managed in a two-question segment to mock laws protecting a woman's right to sue for being paid less than a man, and the notion that late-term abortions should be allowed in cases where a mother's health is threatened.
"That's the extreme pro-abortion position -- quote, health," McCain said.
Early instant polls of voters gave the night to Obama.
the entire point of Sarah Palin was supposedly to get all those uncommitted Hillary voters. McCain there, tactical genius that he is, managed in 2 casual derisive swoops, to make launching a stupid crude right wing attack against Obama into a self inflicting wound that is going to cost him dearly among those women he thought Palin was going to attract.
Now to be fair to G-Man, who i'm sure is going to launch is usual tired attacks against the media and declare that McCain is there to save us all from high taxes (since we're ALL millionaires apparently), here's a poll that McCain actually won:
CNN POLL: Who spent more time attacking during the debate?
McCain – 80% Obama – 7%
Good.
then McCain, tactical genius that he is, made his final impression on the American public:
Yes, this is the man who has the temperament and maturity to be President. Of course after that bit of stupidity, Obama joined his wife and they both exited the stage, McCain refused to hold his wife and then jumped ahead and left his wife behind to walk off herself. I found that a bit odd a way to cap off the evening...
half the blacks won't go....I guarantee it. Not even for a black President. I think it will be a close election....closer than the polls show. I won't be surprised if Mccain loses but I won't be surprised if he wins either. We shall see.
Looks like it's over then. Congratulations whomod! If I was you I wouldn't even bother voting this one is in the bag.
Actually I vote in every election as a matter of civic duty and I now walk my infant daughter with me to the polling precinct to instill the habit and tradition in her. Not that it really matters much with me in California. It's not like if McCain will win here under any circumstance.
I strongly disagree with you about "blacks" not showing up to vote. This thing has resonated strongly among all sectors of the black community, from what I've seen first hand. You're going to see unprecedented numbers of blacks, and pretty much anyone else, showing up to vote on November 4. Elections and politics suddenly became real and relevant and American Idol finally became the trivial trash it is, as the ratings for those 2 programs have shown since the economic crisis hit.
People are tuned in. And as has been discussed for years, the more involved the public is in voting, the more it favors Democrats. Which explains why the gOP go out of their way to depress turnout election after election.
TIME (Karen Tumulty): Obama seemed cool and collected, while McCain’s grimaces were painful to watch.
More reviews of the dead campaign walking:
Washington Post (E.J. Dionne)-McCain Deepens His Own Hole: The poll specifically asked voters if their opinion of McCain had changed for the better or for the worse in "the past couple of weeks." Only 7 percent said their view had changed in a positive direction; 21 percent said it had moved in a negative direction. Nearly a quarter of those who said their view of McCain had worsened cited his attacks on Obama as the reason for their change of heart; a fifth mentioned his selection of Palin. By contrast, 17 percent of voters said their view of Obama had improved; only 7 percent said it had worsened.
David Yepsen at the Des Moines Register (he's highly respected and a big deal):
Quote:
John McCain lost the final debate of the 2008 presidential campaign Wednesday night. As a result, he may well have lost the election, too....
McCain simply needed a breakout performance and he failed to provide one. He went into the forum trailing Obama in polls of the contest and he came out of in the same position. By doing so, McCain missed his biggest remaining opportunity to change the direction of the presidential contest....
Conservatives will love McCain’s dwelling on his pro-life, anti-abortion stance. Obama, who is pro-choice, tried to reach out to the anti-abortion community by calling for more adoption.
That exchange was telling: McCain seemed more focused on firing up his base of conservative supporters, while Obama was trying to reach beyond his. At this point in a general-election campaign, a candidate should have his or her “base” locked up and be going after undecided voters.
What you are saying is true. I also comend you for doing that with your daughter.....my Dad used to do the same thing with me. Your vote does make a difference. And you may be right about the blacks, but I will need to see it to believe it. There are a couple of things that make me think this is not over though. First, you say that people are tuned in and I agree but I disagree that if more people vote it favors dems. Yes there are more dems registered but many of them have never voted ever.....nor will they. Also people being tuned in also makes them pay really close attention to both candidates. The way you see Obama and the way I see McCain may not be the way about 15% of voters out there see either of them.
Second, Obama is polling about 49% right now in the polls nationally......but only 82% of the 49% are definitely going to vote for him. That is a gallup fact......so that means 18% may change their mind. Who knows. Bradley effect may have some effect but I am thinking it won't but who knows on that as well.
All I'm saying is I honestly don't think we'll know till late Tuesday night or early Wednesday.....and if Ohio is close and decides the election I would assume we would have a challenge ala 2000 and the dems will know how that feels.
But like I've said in the past I hope if Obama wins he governs somewhat for the center otherwise I may go out of business and the economy will suffere terribly.
oh and the debates don't mean shit.....Bush lost to Gore and Kerry and he did ok. McCain did well enough but not great. Obama is a very weak candidate with no record at all of anything saying the word change does nto magically make it happen. A good debater would have made Obama look very stupid. I felt there were at least 5 major opening last night that McCain just couldn't capitalize on.
Hey that's fine. I've said my bit. You can all take the next two or three pages of this thread and form a running dialogue that automatically insults me and badmouthes Obama at the same time. That's all you guys tend to do, anyway, right?
and what exactly is it that you do differently?
Really? Please show me where I have insulted you? I might not love McCain, but I don't remember badmouthing him. However, I certainly don't remember ever insulting you, or basams. If I did, I would like to see an example. I will be happy to apologize, if so...
one does not question the word of Olberman brought to us by the all seeing Promod....
Please show me where I have quoted or posted anything from Keith "Lefty O'Reilly" Olberman. As I find him about as fair-and-balanced as the FOX Right-Wing Entertainment Channel, I would be very surprised that I suddenly used him as any example of anything. But, please show me and would be happy to consider what you are saying is true...
when did I insult you? you take offense to Obama insults.....if I personally insulted you please let me know and I will apologize.
Originally Posted By: PJP
yup Promod is above all that!
I didn't take it as a hard insult or anything. And I really wasn't talking to you in that response, anyway. Again, if I misread you here, or mis-timed a response, then this is all bizarre communication and we need to just forget it and go back to spooning...
