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Health Care for All ... or Else: Under Democrats' plan, individuals and employers would have obligations to get health coverage, or face penalties.

Think about that for a second. Under this proposal, if you don't want or need health insurance the federal government is going to force you to get it.

In other words, even if you're a healthy young person with no history of illness who could afford the out of pocket cost for an occasional check-up, you're going to have to turn over a sizeable portion of your paycheck to a health insurer (either private or a government bureaucracy) simply because Big Brother told you to.

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The Gipper on Socialized Medicine:


Still fresh today


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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/20/health/policy/20health.html?hp

 Quote:
WASHINGTON — Despite President Barack Obama’s assurance that a revamping of the United States health-care system would not swell the federal deficit, his goal of quick congressional passage seemed to grow a bit more tenuous on Sunday as Republicans dug in their heels while governors in both parties raised concerns that they will be handed costly new Medicaid obligations without the money to pay for them.

The states pay, on average, more than 40 percent of the cost of Medicaid, so they bear a significant burden of any expansion of the program to help more low-income Americans. At their annual summer meeting, in Biloxi, Miss., the governors said that their concerns dominated discussion, with striking levels of bipartisan hostility voiced during a closed-door luncheon on the topic on Saturday.

And Congressional Republicans said on Sunday that Mr. Obama could probably meet his deficit goal only by increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans and requiring small business owners, already battered by the enduring recession, to assure coverage of their employees.

The Senate’s top Republican, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that rising health-care costs, and the problem of millions of Americans who lack insurance, could be resolved without a costly revamping — estimates are that it could cost $1 trillion over a decade — that he said would lead to inferior care and an outsized government role.


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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
most people want a government health care option.


At the same time, the majority of Americans say they are satisfied with their own health care plans.

Most people what health care reform that cuts costs and improve services. Obama's plan won't do that. In fact, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has said it would actually do the opposite.

So we have a President proposing a socialized medicine plan that is already determined to be a failure, in response to a need that most people don't really see, except in the abstract.

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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hyBAhOgfTNg-vlrnTm_hhjaPrfGgD99HPUU00

 Quote:
BILOXI, Miss. — Many of the nation's governors said Sunday they don't want Congress to force states to pick up extra expenses, from health care to national security.

Democrats and Republicans attending the summer convention of the National Governors Association said state budgets are already strained by recession. Governors meet twice yearly to seek bipartisan consensus on issues affecting their states, including federal mandates for shared programs such as the Medicaid health insurance program for the needy. Only 25 governors attended the weekend meeting as some stayed home to tackle budgets.

Several governors joined Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano in calling on Congress to revise requirements by this fall for secure driver's licenses that are intended to help boost national security. The governors said federal mandates for the licenses are too expensive, and 13 states have voted not to participate in the Real ID Act passed after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

"Security standards are only useful if people are willing and able to use them," said Vermont Gov. Jim Douglas, a Republican.

Real ID-compliant driver's licenses would have layers of security to prevent forgery, such as verification of birth certificates, Social Security numbers and immigration status.

The Senate Homeland Security Committee last week started working on a revised and less expensive plan called Pass ID, supported by the governors association. States' cost to fulfill requirements of Real ID would be about $4 billion, and Napolitano said the cost of implementing Pass ID would be about $2 billion.

"Real ID, from a state perspective, was unreal," said Napolitano, a former Arizona governor.

Pass ID would be less expensive for states to implement and would be less stringent, though Napolitano said it would still help bolster national security. For example, Real ID would require that birth certificates be confirmed with the agency that issued the documents, while Pass ID would not.

During discussions about health care, several governors said they worry federal legislation could push billions of dollars in new expenses on their states for Medicaid, the government health insurance program for the needy.

Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue, a Republican, said he believes some officials have "noble goals" of expanding coverage to more people who are currently uninsured. But he said Congress should not pass legislation that force states to pick up extra expenses.

"If we're asked to pick up on state increased costs in health care, it's going to take away from ... environment, transportation, education, public safety, all the other things that we as states do," Perdue said.

Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire, a Democrat, said too much of the discussion in Congress now is about the cost of health care. "If we're not also talking about how do we get better, higher quality health care to the people of this nation, I think we lose them in the process," he said.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson said he likes President Barack Obama's plan to use public and private options for health care, but he worries Congress will dilute the plan and pass billions in new expenses on to states.

"We can't afford that, and that's not acceptable," Richardson said.

Also Sunday, Napolitano told governors to prepare in case there's a resurgence of swine flu in the nation this fall. She said state leaders should talk to education officials about preventing the disease's spread among children and being ready for schools to offer continued learning at home if they are forced to temporarily close.

Obama has said U.S. swine flu vaccinations could begin in October with children among the first to receive them.

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 Quote:
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson said he likes President Barack Obama's plan to use public and private options for health care, but he worries Congress will dilute the plan and pass billions in new expenses on to states.


I wish MEM would take note, the new mantra by the Ones lackies is blame congress.

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
most people want a government health care option.


At the same time, the majority of Americans say they are satisfied with their own health care plans.

...


That poll is a couple of years old.

Polls these days show different results...
 Quote:
Poll: Most Back Public Health Care Option
CBS News/New York Times Survey Shows Most Americans Approve Of Government Intervention In Health Care Coverage

(CBS) A clear majority of Americans -- 72 percent -- support a government-sponsored health care plan to compete with private insurers, a new CBS News/New York Times poll finds. Most also think the government would do a better job than private industry at keeping down costs and believe that the government should guarantee health care for all Americans.

The new poll shows the idea of a government-sponsored plan, or "public option," to be fair non-controversial, though Democrats in the Senate have considered nixing the proposal in order to win Republican support for the bill. House leaders on Friday unveiled a health care reform plan that includes a public option.

The poll reveals, however, the obstacles that remain in the way of the public option and broader reform efforts. Many Americans are concerned that their own health care may be compromised if the government is involved, and while they are generally willing to pay more in taxes for universal coverage, that support drops when dollar amounts are mentioned. ...

cbsnews.com


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http://www.mercurynews.com/nationworld/ci_12873237

 Quote:
WASHINGTON — Heading into a critical period in the debate over health-care reform, public approval of President Obama's stewardship on the issue has dropped below the 50-percent threshold for the first time, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

And with skepticism about the president's effort also mounting on Capitol Hill — even within his own party — the White House has launched a new phase of its strategy designed to dramatically increase public pressure on Congress: all Obama, all the time.

Senior White House aides promise "an aggressive public and private schedule" for Obama as he presses his case for reform, including a prime-time news conference on Wednesday, a trip to Cleveland, and heavy use of Internet video to broadcast his message beyond the reach of the traditional media.

"Our strategy has been to allow this process to advance to the point where it made sense for the president to take the baton. Now's that time," said senior adviser David Axelrod. "I don't know whether he will Twitter or tweet. But he's going to be very, very visible."

Today, his advisers say, he will do a round of interviews to drive the narrative for the week. Private meetings with lawmakers will become more frequent and urgent.

Since April, approval of Obama's handling of health care has dropped from 57 percent to 49 percent, with disapproval rising from 29 percent to 44 percent.

Obama's approval ratings on other front-burner issues, such as the economy and the federal budget deficit, have also slipped over the summer, as rising concern about spending and continuing worries about the economy combine to challenge his administration. Barely more than half approve of the way he is handling unemployment, which now tops 10 percent in 15 states and the District of Columbia.

But even as Obama returns to full-time campaign mode, he is facing increasing calls to show that his presidency can manage the tough, nitty-gritty of lawmaking by cutting deals with his allies to keep health-care legislation moving in the House and Senate committees.

Conservative Democrats in the House are promising to vote against reform as it now stands, and are preparing two dozen amendments, including measures aimed at lowering the effort's long-term cost. In the Senate, members from both parties are urging the president to break his campaign promise to preserve the tax-free status of health benefits. And a chorus of weary voices from Capitol Hill is urging him to abandon his demand for passage of bills in the House and Senate by Aug. 7.

"I don't think we should be bound by a timetable that isn't realistic," Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, a key swing vote on health care, told Obama last week as she reminded him that President Lyndon Johnson took 11/2 years to pass Medicare.

Obama has not officially budged on the timetable, although he and aides have notably failed to note the August deadline in recent remarks. But Obama is quietly working with conservative, Blue Dog Democrats in the House on an amendment to create an independent panel to govern Medicare reimbursement rates that could help reverse crippling health-care inflation.

The decision to vault Obama to the front carries huge risks.

The decades-long drive to reform the health-care system now rests largely on Obama's ability to quell revolts among his Democratic allies, many of whom have spent the past several weeks picking at pieces of his proposals.

If conservative House Democrats succeed in sowing fear of rising deficits, it will be seen as Obama's fault that he could not rein them in. If Democrats in the Senate fail to agree on financing, Obama must explain the failure despite his party's majorities in both chambers.

Approval of Obama's handling of the overall economy stands at 52 percent, with 46 percent disapproving, and, for the first time in his presidency, more Americans strongly disapprove of his performance on the economy than strongly approve. Last month, 56 percent gave him positive marks on this issue.

The president's overall approval rating remains higher than his marks on particular domestic issues, with 59 percent giving him positive reviews and 37 percent disapproving. But the poll is the first time in his presidency that Obama has fallen under 60 percent in Post-ABC polling, and he is six percentage points lower than he was a month ago.

A total of 1,001 randomly selected adults were interviewed for this poll; the margin of sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points.

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i noticed they've accepted the white house order to call moderate democrats by the term conservative democrats now.

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts821

 Quote:
Middle-class families are struggling every day with rising costs of housing, food, transportation, and taxes. But for many, rising costs of health care are the most devastating of all. That’s why Americans’ top priority during the ongoing health care debate is a plan that will reduce costs. Unfortunately, the government takeover of health care offered by the Washington Democrats will not reduce costs; instead, it will dramatically increase costs – for your family, America’s small businesses, and all taxpayers.

Last week, Douglas Elmendorf, the director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) sent shockwaves through Washington when he told Congress that the Democrats’ plans would make health care more costly. Throughout this debate, President Obama has spoken of the need to “bend the cost curve” or drive health care costs down. During a congressional hearing, however, Mr. Elmendorf testified that the Democrats’ plans would have the opposite effect, saying that under their proposals, “The curve is being raised” and costs would “significantly expand.” That’s because the Democrats’ plan adds a new layer of taxes, mandates, and bureaucracy on top of the current system. If that’s not bad enough, the Democrats’ plan cuts Medicare and takes away choices for millions of seniors. What does all of this mean? Higher costs for the medicine and treatments you need.

Not only will the Democrats’ government-run health care plan raise your costs, but it also will raise costs for our nation’s employers – particularly small businesses. At the heart of their proposal is a small business tax that, for tens of millions, means diminished job security. The National Federation of Independent Businesses warns that the small business tax and mandates in the Democrats’ plan will destroy 1.6 million jobs – one million of them in small businesses alone. And according to methodology developed by Dr. Christina Romer, the chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisors, the government takeover would cost Americans 4.7 million jobs over the next 10 years. With our economy at its weakest since the Great Depression and unemployment soaring far beyond the levels promised by the Administration, why would Congress promote policies that make jobs even more scarce?

In addition to warning that the Democrats’ plan will raise health care costs, the Congressional Budget Office also has projected that the House Democrats’ proposal would increase the deficit by another $239 billion over the next 10 years. And even though the President continues to claim that those who like their current health care plans can keep them under the Democrats’ proposal, independent analysts disagree. One analysis shows that 114 million Americans may be forced off their current coverage and onto a government-run plan as a result of the House Democrats’ legislation. That means more costs to the taxpayers. The bottom line: while Democratic leaders continue to claim that health care legislation must be “paid for,” the House Democrats’ bill is not. Instead, it will force us to borrow more from China and countries in the Middle East and stick our children and grandchildren with the tab.

Faced with the Democratic bill’s extraordinary costs to families, small businesses, and taxpayers, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) suggested last week that Democrats should go “back to the drawing board.” I agree, and that’s why House Republicans have offered real reforms that would lower health care costs. Our plan roots out waste, fraud, and abuse in the system and reforms medical liability rules that cost families millions each year – millions that line the pockets of trial lawyers at the expense of patients and doctors. It lets small businesses band together through associations and purchase health insurance for workers at a lower cost, just like large corporations and unions do. It offers incentives to help Americans who do not have access to quality health care get the coverage they can afford, while giving states tools to design programs that make health care coverage more affordable. And it reforms regulations so insurance companies compete for your business and you can shop around for the best coverage and price.

Health care reform is too important to rush through a flawed proposal that will raise costs – the opposite of what the American people want. After the Obama Administration insisted that Congress rush to enact a “stimulus” bill that – by any objective account – has not created the jobs that were promised, Washington cannot afford to make that same mistake on health care. Nonetheless, it appears Democratic leaders will stubbornly try to ram through this bill before Congress leaves for the August break with little debate or discussion, even as many rank-and-file Democrats express serious concerns about what a costly government-run plan would mean for families and small businesses. It’s time for Democrats to scrap their government takeover of health care and work with Republicans on a plan that gives more Americans access to affordable coverage.

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If anybody wants a good laugh, then you ought to watch Kathleen Sebelius trying to sell the Administrations health care reforms on Meet the Press from yesterday. She bombed terribly and, God help me, I was impressed by how well of a job David Gregory did on really pushing here to give straight up answers. Not the she necessarily did, mind you, but he pushed enough to make her talking points look silly.

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 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
 Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
most people want a government health care option.


At the same time, the majority of Americans say they are satisfied with their own health care plans.


That poll is a couple of years old.

Polls these days show different results...


It's bad enough you don't read anyone else's posts before you post but you ought to at least read your own sources first.

Your own source supports what I said. In regard to my point that most people are actually happy with their own health care, the article you cited states:
  • Many Americans are concerned that their own health care may be compromised if the government is involved


Clearly, if Americans were unhappy with their own health care plans, that wouldn't be a concern now.

And in regard to my point that Americans support reform only if it leads to reduced costs and greater efficiencies, the poll states:

  • Most also think the government would do a better job than private industry at keeping down costs ... and while they are generally willing to pay more in taxes for universal coverage, that support drops when dollar amounts are mentioned.


As noted above, the support for Obama's plan is based on a premise that it would improve things when the CBO has indicated that it would not. And, in fact, another poll demonstrates that support for the Obama plan is continuing to erode as more and more information comes out:
  • a new Washington/Post ABC News poll finds that only 49 percent of Americans approve of his handling of health care, compared to 44 percent who disapprove. By comparison, back in April, the same poll found 57 percent approval to 29 percent disapproval. In other words, over the past three months, as Obama consistently pounded on the drum for health care legislation, his net approval on the issue has shrunken dramatically. And if you look deeper into the numbers, it gets even worse for Obama, because those who now strongly disapprove of his handling of health care outnumber those who strongly approve 28 percent to 22 percent.


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http://healthpolicyblog.mayoclinic.org/2...committee-bill/

 Quote:
Although there are some positive provisions in the current House Tri-Committee bill – including insurance for all and payment reform demonstration projects – the proposed legislation misses the opportunity to help create higher-quality, more affordable health care for patients. In fact, it will do the opposite.

In general, the proposals under discussion are not patient focused or results oriented. Lawmakers have failed to use a fundamental lever – a change in Medicare payment policy – to help drive necessary improvements in American health care. Unless legislators create payment systems that pay for good patient results at reasonable costs, the promise of transformation in American health care will wither. The real losers will be the citizens of the United States.

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh

As noted above, the support for Obama's plan is based on a premise that it would improve things when ... it would not.

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k. the guy from Canada on CNN discussing health care made canadians look lijke morons... which in fact we are?

2 days for a broken legs?

8-15 hours for stiches?


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Since MEM likes to cite polls to justify his support for socialized medicine, here's the most recent USA Today/Gallup poll on Obama and it isn't good:
  • • on health care, his approval is at 44 percent, and only 41 percent approve of his handling of the deficit.

    •59% say his proposals call for too much government spending.

    •52% say they call for too much expansion of government power.

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/20/poll-obamas-public-approval-health-care-reform-slipping/

 Quote:
A new poll suggests public approval of the way President Barack Obama is handling health care reform is slipping.

The Washington Post-ABC News survey says since April, Obama's approval rating on the issue has declined from 57 percent to 49 percent, with disapproval rising from 29 percent to 44 percent.

The president's overall approval rating stands at 59 percent positive and 37 percent negative. It's the first time Obama's approval rating has fallen below 60 percent in Post-ABC polling since he took office.

The poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

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Don't let MEM see that. He lives and dies by the polls.

the G-man #1073230 2009-07-21 1:58 AM
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 Originally Posted By: the G-man of Zur-En-Arrh
Don't let MEM see that. He lives and dies by the polls.


I give basams credit for at least presenting a recent poll instead of one from 2007 like you did ;\)

As for polls, I predicted that Obama would drop in the polls a while back.


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Sarcasm (yours, mine and BSAMS') aside, there's something really contrary to the spirit and intent of the constitution (if not freedom in general) for you to think it acceptable to socialize (and in effect seize) one of the single biggest sectors of the economy on little more justification than a poll result.

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Obama Won't Rule Out Health Surtax: In interview, president refuses to take surtax off the table in escalating debate over how to pay for health care plan

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Key House Panel Cancels Health Care Session, as Moderate Democrats Voice Concerns: The House Energy and Commerce Committee is stacked with fiscally conservative Blue Dog Democrats, who have voiced serious concerns about the details of the House package....President Obama plans to meet with those Democrats Tuesday.

I hope those guys have their taxes in order...and no kids. Letterman hasn't had a teenaged girl to make rape jokes about for at least a couple of weeks now.

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Meanwhile, CNN reports:
  • The Senate Democratic leadership and the White House are putting heavy pressure on the Finance Committee to adopt its health care plan before the president speaks to the nation (on Wednesday).


So, in other words, Obama is trying to pressure the Finance Committee not to write the best legislation its members can, not to reach a bipartisan compromise, but to pass whatever bill they can before he and his teleprompter go in front of the television cameras to give a prime-time news conference.

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http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/21/why-did-obama-meet-with-the-cbo/

 Quote:
Barack Obama disclosed an unusual meeting with the CBO, presumably its director Doug Elmendorf, in his Today Show appearance this morning with Meredith Viera. The relevant clip comes at the three-minute mark, where Viera challenges Obama on the CBO scoring of the health-care reform bills:

OBAMA: And so, what we’ve got to do, is to bend the cost curve over the long term. And we’ve put forward a whole series of proposals to do that, and the Congressional Budget Office and every health care expert have looked at many of our proposals, and they’ve said, “You know, this has a good chance of working.” Not all of them have been adopted by Congress yet –

VIERA: But — not to beat a dead horse here, but again, the Congressional Budget Office is looking at those bills that are out there, and they’re saying they do not contain costs. Any one of those bills, would you sign them, based on what you see?

OBAMA: Right now, they’re not where they need to be. But I promise you, I just met with the Congressional Budget Office today, so I know exactly what they’re saying. And what they’re saying is, is that the cost savings that are in those bills right now, some of them may actually work, but they’re not enough to offset the additional costs of bringing in 46 million new people to provide.

Why is this important? The CBO exists to keep a check on the executive branch. The “Congressional” part of CBO is no accident. Congress created the CBO as a means to provide oversight over the White House and its use of the budget and its fiscal projections:

Two developments provided the impetus for the enactment of the Budget Act in 1974. One development was an increasing realization by Congress that it had no means to develop an overall budget plan. Prior to 1974, Congress responded to the President’s budget (which contains the President’s many spending and revenue proposals) each year in a piece-meal fashion. There existed no framework for Congress to establish its own spending priorities before work began on specific spending and revenue bills during the spring and summer.

A second, and more immediate, cause for passage of the Budget Act was a dispute in the early 1970’s regarding presidential authority to impound money appropriated by Congress. During this time, President Nixon repeatedly asserted authority (as had many of his predecessors) to withhold from Federal agencies money appropriated by Congress. By 1973, it was believed that President Nixon had impounded up to $15 billion of spending previously approved by Congress. A large portion of these funds were to have gone towards the building of highways and pollution control projects. Many in Congress disputed these actions by the President.The authorization for the pollution control projects, for example, had been enacted by Congress in 1972 with a strong vote in both Houses overriding President Nixon’s veto. Nonetheless, the President impounded much of this spending. These events led Members of Congress to seek a legislative solution.

In 1974 Congress enacted the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act to establish procedures for developing an annual congressional budget plan and achieving a system of impoundment control. The Budget Act also created, for the first time, congressional standing committees devoted solely to the budget. It also created the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) to serve as the “scorekeeper” for Congress. CBO is responsible for producing an annual economic forecast, formulating the baseline, reviewing the President’s annual budget submission, scoring all spending legislation reported from committee and passed by the Congress, and preparing reports in compliance with the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act. CBO’s policy with respect to providing estimates is set out in Appendix B. The Joint Committee on Taxation scores all revenue measures.

In other words, the CBO exists for independence from the executive branch in fiscal matters. If Barack Obama needs clarification on CBO scoring, he should work through Congress to get it, rather than demand face time with the CBO director. Even more appropriately, the President should work through his own Office of Management and Budget (OMB) director for analysis of CBO scoring. In this case, Obama has Elmendorf’s immediate predecessor, Peter Orszag, as his OMB Director, who should be able to figure out a CBO analysis on his own and help Obama understand it and respond to it.

After this came to my attention, I contacted two sources in Washington and asked if presidents routinely conferred with the CBO on budget scoring. Both called this highly unusual and could not recall if or when it had been done in previous administrations. It treads on the entire process of legislative oversight and threatens the independence of the CBO from the administration, which is essential for Congress — if it’s interested in independent analysis.

At best, this looks like a move made out of ignorance of the constitutional checks and balances of the federal government. It appears more like an attempt to browbeat the CBO into more sympathetic scoring of presidential initiatives. Congress should act quickly and forcefully to remind Obama about the boundaries of his executive power.

Update: Elmendorf blogs about this meeting:

I was invited to the White House to meet with the President, his key budget and health advisers, and some outside experts. The President asked me and the outside experts for our views about achieving cost savings in health reform. I presented CBO’s assessment of the challenges of reducing federal health outlays and improving the long-term budget outlook while simultaneously expanding health insurance coverage–just as we had explained these challenges in a letter to Senator Conrad and Senator Gregg last month. I also described CBO’s view of the effects of the health legislation we have seen so far, as I did last Thursday in a hearing at the Senate Budget Committee and a mark-up at the House Ways and Means Committee. In addition, I discussed various policy options that could produce budgetary savings in the long run, drawing on CBO’s Budget Options for Health Care released in December, our letter to Senators Conrad and Gregg last month, and my comments last Thursday. Other participants in the meeting expressed their own views on these various topics.

But the CBO doesn’t create policy. It’s supposed to be a scorekeeper, and allow Congress to create policy. This feels like an attempt to either intimidate or co-opt the CBO, neither of which would be a good thing. The entire meeting seems highly inappropriate.

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Intimidator in Chief: President Obama sends a warning to the CBO.

Given Obama's apparent willingness to fire and smear watchdogs who try to make him and his cronies obey the law you have to wonder what sort of threats and attacks he'll make agains the CBO. Maybe label it a "hate organization"?

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The Arrogance of Health Care Reform: Why do politicians with no business experience think they can run 15 percent of the economy?

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Roll Over or Get Out of the Way: Waxman threatens 'Blue Dog' conservative Dems, saying he'll steamroll them to get health care House vote

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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you)
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http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...surance_company

 Quote:
Just 35% of U.S. voters now support the creation of a government health insurance company to compete with private health insurers.

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 Originally Posted By: BASAMS The Plumber


That's good. Lucy's a bitch, and her so-called advice never seemed to help Charlie Brown.


Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!

All hail King Snarf!

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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you)
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Wow you really are a dumbass, if you actually watched an episode or read a comic strip her advice did eventually help Charlie to man up take responsibility and in the end feel proud of himself for doing things the right way.

I know you are short sighted on this because you feel that a woman will never love you but don't project on charlie Brown. It's a story of hope over adversity, not of blaming and looking for the easy way.

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Newsweek: President Obama tried to sell his health care overhaul in prime time, mangling some facts in the process. He also strained to make the job sound easier to pay for than experts predict.
  • Obama promised once again that a health care overhaul "will be paid for." But congressional budget experts say the bills they've seen so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade.
  • He said the plan "that I put forward" would cover at least 97 percent of all Americans. Actually, the plan he campaigned on would cover far less than that, and only one of the bills now being considered in Congress would do that.
  • He said the "average American family is paying thousands" as part of their premiums to cover uncompensated care for the uninsured, implying that expanded coverage will slash insurance costs. But the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation puts the cost per family figure at $200.
  • Obama claimed his budget "reduced federal spending over the next 10 years by $2.2 trillion" compared with where it was headed before. Not true. Even figures from his own budget experts don't support that. The Congressional Budget Office projects a $2.7 trillion increase, not a $2.2 trillion cut.
  • The president said that the United States spends $6,000 more on average than other countries on health care. Actually, U.S. per capita spending is about $2,500 more than the next highest-spending country. Obama's figure was a White House-calculated per-family estimate.

Oops!

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Society's Discontent
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We can't be concerned about facts and figures when there are millions of people with little to no health care coverage.































\:p

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brutally Kamphausened
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Yes.

To provide insurance for the 15% who are uninsured, it is necessary to wreck quality insurance for the 85% who are insured.


Never mind that (using the example of the system in Massachusetts), even requiring everyone to enter a single-payer system will still leave 2% un-insured.

But hey, it's what Obama advocates, so it must be what's right.
OBAMA WILL SAVE US ALL !

Yep, we'll just tax those evil rich people some more, to pay for it all.

It'll be like that episode of Monty Python, where the Robin Hood character steals from the rich so much to give to the poor, that the poor become rich, and the rich become poor.
So then he has to steal from the poor to give to the rich !

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Now, I'm genuinely curious as to people's opinion on this- what's the difference between socialized security (the police and other law enforcement agencies) and socialized medicine? Why is one good and proper and the other a sign of Communism? After all, everyone gets free police protection, but, if you're wealthy, you can splurge and get a personal body guard or private investigator. How is that any different?


Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!

All hail King Snarf!

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I'd explain it to you but you would just fall back on your programming and not listen.


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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 Originally Posted By: rex
I'd explain it to you but you would just fall back on your programming and not listen.

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