RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events A right to Health Care

Support for the health care plan proposed by the President and Congressional Democrats has fallen to a new low of 38%. Sixty percent (60%) of voters believe passage of the bill will lead to higher health care costs.

Apparently you did since you just said you didn't necessarily think reform would help.

I said I didn't think a bill would be all wonderful or perfect. Recognizing that a bill isn't going to be flawless is hardly the same thing as "reform for reform sake".

You are advocating for what you admit is a flawed bill. So why rush it through?

Once a law is passed it normally takes another law to change or modify it. As we all know, passage of a law is a complicated and often time consuming process.

Therefore, once a flawed bill is passed the American people are likely stuck with it for the at least the foreseeable future?

Why not keep working at the bill until it is at least closer to "wonderful [and] perfect?"

Otherwise, aren't the Democrats essentially advocating "reform for reform's sake"?

No because taking more time only opens it up to what would probably be more of a flawed bill or no bill at all. That may please you politically g-man and your party but not America.

...In fact, the founding fathers set up the entire "separation of powers" structure in part so that government couldn't ram through ill considered (or dangerous) laws that threaten the long term well being of the nation just because something was popular in the heat of the moment.

Err the bill is going through the usual process. Republicans tried to stop it from being even debated and they were outnumbered.

Even assuming that is true (and the fact that votes have been occurring in special sessions on weekends would call that into question) that doesn't change what you, yourself, have admitted... namely, that the bill is flawed.

It's still going through the process ...

It's still going through the process and there is no perfect flawless bill. If you feel a bill needs to be perfect than you would find no bills acceptable.

It's still going through the process and there is no perfect flawless bill. If you feel a bill needs to be perfect than you would find no bills acceptable.

It's still going through the process and there is no perfect flawless bill. If you feel a bill needs to be perfect than you would find no bills acceptable.

It's still going through the process and there is no perfect flawless bill. If you feel a bill needs to be perfect than you would find no bills acceptable.

I think it's nice that Zick can admit when he's wrong.

It's still going through the process and there is no perfect flawless bill. If you feel a bill needs to be perfect than you would find no bills acceptable.

It's still going through the process and there is no perfect flawless bill. If you feel a bill needs to be perfect than you would find no bills acceptable.

Dont beat a dead horse, we agree it can wait.

Give Zick a break, BSAMS. He's not used to getting validation from anyone outside a bathhouse or glory hole. You've got to expect him to crow a little.

That may please you politically g-man and your party but not America.

PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans currently tilt against Congress' passing healthcare legislation, with 49% saying they would advise their member to vote against a bill (or they lean that way) and 44% saying they would advocate a vote in favor of the bill (or lean toward advising a yes vote).

...Any good news in them thar poll numbers? Yes -- "opinion on the issue is far from settled. When initially asked about their preferred course of action on healthcare legislation, 22% of Americans say they do not yet have an opinion on the matter."

Some arrows in the quivers of health care reform-backing Democrats that you may hear about today:

1) MIT professor Jonathan Gruber has released a study stating that the Senate Democrats' health care reform bill makes "market reforms which will make health insurance much more affordable for individuals facing purchase in the non-group market."

You can read that paper HERE.

2) The White House this morning released this video from Vice President Biden asking the American people: who do you trust? Doctors and nurses in favor of reform? Or special interests opposed to it? The video features Dr. Lori Heim, president of the American Academy of Family Physicians and Rebecca Patton, RN, president of the American Nurses Association.
...

Those fucking Americans all they care about is g-man and the wishes of his party.

Fierce GOP Opposition Slows Senate's First Healthcare Votes


December 1, 2009
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Senate Democrats, facing stiff Republican opposition, were forced Tuesday to delay votes on the first set of amendments to the gargantuan healthcare bill – underscoring the fiercely partisan nature of the floor debate and threatening Democrats' tight timeline for achieving final passage.

Party leaders, scrambling to pass a bill by Christmas, had hoped to be able to approve a proposal Tuesday designed to expand women's access to preventive services such as mammograms, a provision favored by leading advocacy groups for cancer patients.

But instead, lawmakers spent much of the day tussling over the healthcare bill's potential impact on the 44-year-old federal Medicare program for seniors, a debate that has shadowed the healthcare legislation for months.

Democratic leaders are proposing to offset the cost of expanding coverage to some 31 million people over the next decade in part by cutting future Medicare payments to hospitals, nursing homes and other providers.

Insurance companies that contract with the federal government to provide Medicare Advantage plans with extra benefits to about one in four Medicare beneficiaries also face major cuts, which could prompt some insurers to drop their plans.

Many healthcare policy experts believe cuts are necessary to make the nation's healthcare system more efficient and to provide incentives for higher quality care--critical goals if the Medicare program is to remain solvent. Without changes, Medicare's main fund is slated to run of money in 2017.

The Senate healthcare bill has also won praise from independent groups such as the AARP, the nation's leading advocate for seniors, which has been working to reassure its members that healthcare legislation does not jeopardize their Medicare benefits.

Yet many seniors remain nervous about a health overhaul, and Republicans took to the Senate floor all day Tuesday to renew their claims that the cuts would harm seniors.

"How many times have you heard from senior citizens in your state saying, 'I paid into this trust fund. I paid for my Medicare all my life. Now it's going to be cut. How is that fair? How is that fair to my generation, the greatest generation?,'" Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) asked.

McCain pushed to send the healthcare bill back to committee with instructions to restore more than $400 billion in proposed cuts in federal healthcare spending over the next decade, much of it in Medicare.

The GOP charges infuriated Democrats, who pointed out that many Republicans have voted for even deeper cuts to Medicare spending in the past. When McCain was running for president, his top aide talked of trimming Medicare spending to fund new tax credits to help Americans buy health benefits.

"Talk about crocodile tears," Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) said on the Senate floor Tuesday. "Was it not Newt Gingrich, the former Speaker of the House, leader of the Republican revolution, that said he wanted Medicare to, quote , "wither on the vine?" Was it not Senator Bob Dole, the (Republican) standard-bearer for president in the 1990's, who said he had fought against Medicare and was proud he voted against it?"

Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe, a centrist from Maine who objects to portions of Reid's bill, also took issue Tuesday with the allegations that the legislation would hurt Medicare beneficiaries.

"There are going to be a lot of rewards for seniors in this and no reductions in their benefits," Snowe said. "Ultimately, it buoys the system overall in the future."
...

baltimoresun.com

Nambla Zick's insistence on retitling this thread "health care" is instructive in his (and the typical liberal's) way of operating.

"Health care" is, of course, a very broad term. Generally, it applies to the treatment and management of illness (ie, the services provided by a doctor). In fact, a thread about "health care" could be about medical procedures, physician experience or any of a myriad number of topics.

Lately, however, liberals have tried to make it refer to, basically, how we PAY for health care. For example, the bills in Congress relate, not to health care per se, but to insurance and other methods of paying for health care.

The reason for this is simple. They don't want to talk about a government takeover of 1/6 of the economy. So they label this a debate about medical treatment and not economics, taxes and the like.

In fact, they so don't want to talk about what this is really about that I predict that Nambla Zick won't even respond to what I've just written. He'll either try to change the subject or just quote himself again so that he can try to shift the debate (and thread title) to something more in line with his Soros-generated talking points. At best he'll put forth a brief "no YOU ARE" response just so he can re-title the thread.

I'll just keep requoting till G-man the pedophile settles down.

I'll just keep requoting till G-man the pedophile settles down.