RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Media Lost season 6

Speaking of Ben, maybe I'm remembering this wrong but...

Didn't Ben kill everyone in the Dharma initiative at the behest of Richard and, therefore, presumably Jacob?

If so, that seriously calls into question Jacob's "good guy" cred, doesn't it?

6x08: Recon - Sawyer episode.
6x09: Ab Aeterno - Richard Alpert!!
6x10: The Package - Jin/Sun
6x11: Happily Ever After - DESMOND.
6x12: Everybody Loves Hugo - Hurley, obviously.
6x13: The Last Recruit - multi-character centric
6x14: The Candidate - Jack.
6x15: Across The Sea - MIB/Smokey. No main cast in the episode. And it's written by Lindelcuse.
6x16: What They Died For
6x17: Finale.. no title yet


SPOILERS!

What do we know about Jacob and Smokie other than they disagree about what the island needs?

Exactly. So far all we really have to conclude "Jacob=good, Unlocke=evil" is that Jacob wears white, Unlocke wore black and Richard the others repeatedly saying about Unlocke "he's evil, he wants to kill everyone."

And, granted, Unlocke has killed a fair number of people as Smokey. However, Jacob's responsible for putting shit into motion, including the plane crash that killed dozens of people and (if I'm right) ordering the mass slaughter of the Dharmas.

It kind of makes me wonder.

Funny. A few weeks ago I read something where the author said that the actor who plays Sawyer ought to get cast as Crocket in a Miami Vice remake and then we get Earth 2 Sawyer, a vice cop.

I'm trying to keep my expectations low for the next episode because it should be awesome! About time we get the Richard episode.

Yeah. That.

Information is coming fast and furious now. I especially liked Unlocke's story to Kate about his mom.

I thought last night's Lost was a great lead in for Justified.

Another theory that seems to be gaining some ground is that Unlocke is, basically, a genie. He offers to grant wishes, he pops out as a cloud of smoke, he's trapped by a master until he finds a "loophole," etc.

Not sure if I like that theory or not. Seems a little too Aladdin for me.

Still mulling over the ep. But I'm wondering: if Richard's job under Jacob was to advise the various castaways over the years (basically, push them towards good while MIB pushed them to bad) then why didn't he spend more time between Ben's childhood and the present doing that? Instead he hung out with the others and generally let them guess what was going on all these years.

The more I see where the show is going the less I'm interested. At least we're finally getting answers.

I have to admit that I'm a little annoyed at the apparent direction of the show. The first five seasons tended to be foreshadow (time travel, underwater labs, sonic fences, electro-magnetic pulses, 90% of the Dharma initiative, etc.) the show's big reveal being a science fiction concept. And, instead, we get a 180 in the last season and, suddenly, "it's magic."

Also, I'm starting to wonder if MiB/Unlocke might not be an analogue for Caliban from the Tempest. Both were trapped on an island and both had 'insane' mothers. And in the Tempest, Caliban urged Stephano to kill Prospero and become lord of the island. Not to mention one of the Dharma stations was called the Tempest.

I think the show until this season has been pretty much equal parts scifi and "magic". Im not surprised they went this way with things.

Yeah, but before the magic seemed less like "Aladdin/Harry Potter/Joe Quesada" magic and more like "Star Trek" magic, as in, magic that was quite possibly an 'alien' technology-powers type of thing.

its actually amazing rewatching the entire series to see how very un-mystical so much of it is. during the initial run, no one knew what the fuck "the others" were - they could be aliens or invincible demigods or mystical island creatures... only to later find out the majority are just weirdo science hippies. were the hatches portals to other worlds and unlocked secrets of the universe? no, they were bunkers for spying on other bunkers.

Exactly. And then in the last season, suddenly, it's all magic all the time.

one thing i'm curious about is why the others have all these guns. by the dozens! they're the only people on the island (at least prior to oceanic) and they're all packing heat. even the folks in the temple.

if the only enemy is a demon made of smoke, who are you shooting at all this time? rosseau? ...who... before meeting the oceanic crew, hadn't seen you for 16 years?

It seems well-established at this point that Jacob has been bringing people to the island to "test" for centuries right up and including the Oceanic flight. Presumably at least some of those people became Others.

Between 1867, when Richard landed, and the present there were presumably a series of people coming to the island, some of whom had guns. For example, in the 1950s, the Army showed up with an A bomb. And, of course, we had the Dharma people.

Accordingly, it's a safe bet that the Others started carrying guns to defend against people who came to the island and tried to harm them and/or who might be working for Smokey.

ABC told the producers that they didn't want the show to be that crazy at first. ABC even made them cut out a line about the French research team studying time from the first season. I think it worked out for the best that way. They slowly added more and more crazy shit as the seasons went on and that's the right way to do to. The wrong way to do it is the way Fringe is. Completely crazy shit from the very first episode which makes it seem anything is possible and making the show boring.

More on the genie theory, from another message board:

• I believe the Mib is Shaytan, an Islamic version of Satan. The Talmud says Satan will, "Break the barrel but not spill any wine." Ash-Shayṭān (the adversary) is traditionally an angel in Judeo-Christian belief & a Jinn in Islamic belief. Iblis may be his true name. Jinn are also connected to Rakshasa,... creatures who love games, & are shape-changers, illusionists, and magicians. In some variations of myth, Shaytan's mother was Lilith, who went insane after Adam's rejection of her power and sexuality. Important: we saw in the episode that Ricardo's home was Tenerife, in the Canary Islands. Consider: in the Mythology Guanche (practiced at Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spain), there are beings that qualify as genies, such as the... See More Gods paredros or Maxios (nature spirits), the Tibicenas (evil genies) and also the demon Guayota (aboriginal god of evil) that, like the Arabic Iblis, is sometimes identified with a genie. The Mib is a Jinn / Rakshasa called Satan. ta-dah!

we don't write stuff like that other message board

So Jacob is trying to keep the smoke monster on the island but is also bringing people there to test them? That doesn't make sense.

Neither does socialist health care.

It does if the point is that Jacob is required to have a successor eventually and the only way to find one is to test people who come there under the existing "rules."

In a way, I think Jacob may be a bit like the Endless in the Sandman series. Some members of the Endless (including, ultimately, Dream) died throughout the centuries but were replaced by others who assumed the mantle of that particular aspect. In Dream's case, he was tired of being there but needed to manipulate events in order to get himself killed and create a replacement.

This episode needed less answers and more tits.

It just seemed that Jacob wouldn't have needed replacing if he hadn't brought people to the island and giving smokey the loop hole in the first place.

That's why I mentioned the Sandman. Dream only needed replacing because, ultimately, he got tired of his responsibilities and wanted to die. Otherwise he could have lived forever. But to die he had to arrange for something that could, within the rules, kill him (in that case, the Furies and/or his sister but only under the right circumstances).

I think there's a decent chance that Jacob may be doing the same thing. He implied, if not outight told, to Richard that he was tired of the game.

Another example of a long running plot point that seems to have been dropped for Jacob v Unlocke: why preggos die on the island.

what happened to walt's superpowers?!

Re-watched the episode. Didn't catch how the Black Rock boat destroyed the statue. Is this something someone predicted? Seems kind of unrealistic.

No more unrealistic than planes that break up into three pieces in the air and then crash with approximately fifty survivors. I assume it's part of the island's Quesada magic.

apparently, the storm was so bad, a wave lifted the black rock 100 feet in the air, taking dr. hanso's great great white granddaddy through the statue face. at least explaining why there was a boat in the middle of the jungle.

...which, i assume, has to mean the boat jacob and bocaj saw in the season 5 finale was not the black rock, since that ship was seen approaching the island in mid-day on calm waters. perhaps some of the other "hey, c'mon over here!" boats jacob snared.

Yeah. Given that Jacob was snaring people to the island for his "test" even before Richard got there, and obviously kept doing it thereafter, seeing another boat isn't really a big deal.

The best part about the last LOST was the return of Bat-Manuel.

I'm working on a pitch for a Cracked article about most disappointing possible finales for Lost, but the editor told me they need to be believable and I need sources and stuff. Anyone know where I can find that interview where the creators said that everything that happens in the show could happen in real life?