RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Media Lost season 6

LOST and BSG had the same troubles with bringing their series to a close.

Both had great runs but blew it in the end game.

They over extended themselves then didn't have the time to complete the series before the end date. What results is rewrites and damage control.

I'm also wondering if LOST's problem was also the changes on the writing staff.

Were there many writers and creators that stayed with the series, or had they moved on to other Bad Robot projects.

They had Jeph Loeb, then after his departure they brought in Brian K Vaughn, then got rid of him.

LOST always had some major flaws. Like nobody gave a shit about Jack and Kate the two main characters.

They also seemed to go to the bargain basement to get the actors to portray the new characters like Doggen and his rejects from the Planet of the Apes wardrobe, and hobo Tina Fey Zoe.

The dude who had a slight John Lennon look was named Lennon for Christ sakes.

I do want to give credit where credit is due though.

That line about the coffee and the machine stealing the dollar was fucking great.

I'm really going to miss Sawyer. The best scoundrel since Han Solo.

Another thing I want to mention is that the amount of commercials was excruciating.

The real run time of the episode is an hour and forty five minutes.

That means they ran forty five minutes of commercials.

And the clips of "remembrance" were rather long. I bet we only got like an hour and a half new episode.

Yeah, here's to Josh Holloway (and Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson) getting a kick ass movie or TV career out of this.

Terry O'Quinn already had a good career going before.

Those three were the heavy hitters. Plus Ian Cusick.

If, as rumored, Craig is out as Bond (or, hell, even if he's not), Cusick is my choice.

i love how flustered you're getting about the mythical powers of island guardianship, and the rules of transferals in such cases. like, you're willing to accept all that, but then get caught up in the "what about this, section 4.815 (yeah) clearly indicating the..."

you keep getting angry because you think things are "breaking the rules", but they're only breaking your rules about what you've inferred from the show. no one knows how the magical acts of island power can be transferred. the only bits of information we have to go on are the three times we've seen it done, all in the past three episodes. maybe you need the water flowing, maybe you don't. maybe there's something else at play. again, i can't say for certain, but i'd think my argument of "this is what happened in the show" is a bit stronger than your argument of "here, check out these sketches i made the night before"




what was the big pay off? and what was the one you were looking for?

i saw a complete arc of a buncha characters, whose storyline (for me) started on an island, had back story pre-and-post the island filtered in, then came full circle on, and for, the island. what am i missing?



we got exactly that. intertwined with "earth two" clips. we presumed them to be an alternate reality, but through the season, saw flashes of how they were connected. then, boom, finale episode shows exactly where this "earth two" came from, and that it wasn't a flash sideways or alternate world at all - it was their futures.

again, to me, that sounds pretty par for the course with lost. y'gotcher weirdo stuff, your creepy stuff, your faith, your good vs. bad, etc. all while telling stories of reg'lar folks.

aye.

except the target commercials. i thought they were awesome.

Yeah. They were good. I have to say though I am really looking forward to that Sorcerer's Apprentice.

It could be Nic Cage's most shitlarious role since The Wicker Man.

I think what the series should have done was dump the flash sideways during the final season. In the end it was pointless.

They should have just concentrated on the island present.

Also, full penetration.

I see g-man is in full troll mode again.

Or he's just being a complete idiot again. Its getting hard to tell.

Okay, Joe....

But, seriously, it's not just my rules. It was THEIR rules. Or at least the rules they told us existed.

Their rules: Some folks in LA had issues they needed to work through in order to move on. Jack is a fine example. His issues in LA were basically the same he had on the island.

Some people, however, who had worked through their issues in life seem to have suffered some sort of setback in the afterlife. Charlie was back on drugs. Sawyer was back obsessing over Locke's dad. Kate was still a fugitive even though she'd been cleared in the real world.

Still others were in more or less exactly the same place they were in their island life.

And for most of the characters, even those who were shown to be in a less spiritually advanced state in the afterlife than they were when we last saw them breathing, never had to work through these issues. They just had to re-meet cute the significant other the writers chose for them (and yeah, I'm sorry, but Sayid not just hooking up with Shannon but the two of them hanging on each other in the church as though they were made for each other was an insult and refutation of every bit of character development Sayid's character went through on the show).

Their rules: This was a place the Losties "made for themselves"

Then are none of the background characters real? Are they all just "magic" and "imaginary" like Jack's kid? Are they all going to vanish now that the Losties went into the light? The ending, at least as far as David goes, all but came right out and said that.

But that can't be, can it, since Ben says he will stay for awhile. So does he get to wander around in a world where some people just stopped existing because Jack died? Unless the vanishing doesn't start until the last of the folks who "created" the place are gone. Would Rousseau be included in that, or is she a mirage? Alex?

We're told Anna Lucia was real but not ready. And clearly Daniel and his mom are real. In fact, Hawking (originally set up as one of the major players and then apparently just another ghost?), seemed to know more about the world the Losties "created together" than any of them did. Or did she only seem to, because she was a mirage created by Desmond's mind to fill a specific slot in his phantom landscape?

And what made you one of the Losties who "created this place together"?

Apparently being on 815 wasn't needed (Ben, Hawking, Widdemore, Desmond, Farraday, etc). And being on 815 wasn't a guarantee, either (Michael, Walt, Eko, etc.)

Apparently you didn't even have to be on the island at all(Penny). Some of these people were meeting each other for the first time on the other side.

We're told that it was for those who lived the most important time of their lives in the company of these people. Mmmm...kay.... You'd think that would certainly be true for Alex, wouldn't you? She grew up on the island, died on the island (well before Jack or anyone else) discovered the truth about her past, met her mother and died at the hands of Keamy all in the company of these people. But there's no Alex in the church. Guess that wasn't enough. Even though it was enough for, say, Penny.

And there are plenty of examples like the one above.

There is also the matter of the kids.

I'll accept the explanation that Walt spent so little time on the island that he wasn't part of the group.

But Aaron? He was in that chapel. Now maybe he was an imaginary Aaron. But then why was an imaginary baby still present in the chapel? And if he was real, was the island really the most important thing in his life? And he went into the afterlife as a newborn? And, if he WASN'T real, why is he allowed in to the group and not the equally imaginary David Shepherd?

And Alex? See above. Similarly, the argument for hanging on was to hang with Alex and be a good influence in her purgatory existence (and maybe make a little purgatory sexy time with Rousseau)...um, at least until Alex remembers that he let her die, and Rousseau remembers that Ben kidnapped her.

And I won't even go into the metaphysical implications of Sun going into the afterlife with her unborn in the void but quite born in the real world child in her belly. Of course, maybe that baby was MAGIC too and now she's having some sort of mystical miscarrige as she walks into the light?

And does anyone care to explain Keamy to me, or any of the other folks we saw die in afterlife LA? Were they all "fake" like David? Even Keamy?

And speaking of Keamy...he, Widdemore, Sayid, Hawking, Sawyer, Charlie and Anna Lucia end up in purgatory, but Michael was doomed to wander the island? All of them were arguably as guilty of murder as Michael. And, arguably, Michael redeemed himself far more than, say, Keamy or Anna Lucia.

And that's just the rules about the sideways universe purgatory. What about these rules?

• Babies couldn't be born on the island. Except the ones that were.
  People who could not kill each other...killed each other. MIB couldn't kill Jacob, even as Locke, but he could kill "Jackob"
  Putting the light out was going to destroy the world...until it did not destroy the world.

Internal logic is needed to make fiction. It doesn't matter what rules you set, but there have to be rules and they have to work convincingly on that level to move your story forward. This is nowhere more true than in science fiction or fantasy.

my overall reaction to your post above is a hearty "meh". i wont dismiss your points, but i will dismiss the need that they be answered in a fashion acceptable to you. much of what you're looking to be resolved is unnecessary and somewhat irrelevant, so any response would just be a detail war.

as another fan of the shield, i could very similarly attack the finale with a barrage of detailed questions about any number of aspects*, and i'd hold myself to the same "how does that even matter?" response. (*why did nothing ever come of the cat-killer dutch, why was acevata not more heavily implicated in any of vic's reveals, is vic willing to let ronnie die in prison beatdowns despite going all out to save other friends, etc. ...and no, i don't want you to answer these.). the point is, you're not supposed to be looking for tie-ups to anything, and there's not a single series or film that does that. just try naming one, and we can shoot it to shit as a family.

generally speaking, my interpretation of the show's purgatory was simply a vehicle. a matrix. a timeless world to reconnect, introducing even seemingly odd or unflattering characteristics to help jog their own memories (obsessions, criminal records, etc.). maybe this included a bit of wish fulfillment; sawyer going from con-man to dharma security to cop, jack going from loner to drunken adoptee to a dad.

the qualifications for being there could be anything. maybe everyone there, even those they interacted with (alex, rousseau, anna lucia) were also dead. maybe they were just figments of the losties' dead imagination that disappear when the island crew does. maybe everyone gets to have this special chance. maybe it's just the island people.

to me, those are interesting questions, but not even remotely necessary ones. all we know (and my argument; all we need to know) is it was the island people that had the special connection, and they were the ones featured in the church.

these are not good enough answers for you, nor would my answers be to your other questions (and i'm happy to share). but i think the fact that they are answers, is key -- they did address what you wanted them to address, you just didn't like what they came back with. and that should shift your argument from "they fucked up and didn't address anything" to "i hate why they did this"

Terry O'Quinn was awesome in Alias. Its worth watching if you liked Lost.

I want to see a spinoff of the years Sayid was killing for Ben Linus. That would be awesome!

wouldve been nice to have seen Mr Echo again.

They offered him a part but he rejected it and said he wanted five times the amount they were asking.

Why?

Cause he or his agent are insane. They were probably like, "Hey, my client Andeweligjklvnsv-nalcnadflawn was in G.I. Joe...he's going to need star-billing for this one"...

Why?

Or he didn't really want to do it and quoted an insanely high price just to see what would happen.

My way is more believable...

I don't think the two theories are mutually exclusive.

Turns out your way...was dead all along!

I am really trying to focus on the things I enjoyed about the series.

The more and more I think about it though the final season just wasn't for me.

I'm glad some of you got some satisfaction from it.

I just feel poor writing and possibly poor time management just sucked at the home stretch.

i tell you one thing; i am devastated that it's over! sure i liked it, and sure it thought it was a satisfying conclusion, but... man, i think i woulda been happier with 5 additional years of even mediocre lost. my TV options have been weeded out, and lost was really the only "must" show - i watch smallville, for crying out loud.

definitely a bummer.

I'm going through all the netflix streaming shows to see if I can find a show that can hold my attention.

yeah...





I do too

so, ok, for the sake of continuing the conversation because i'm somewhat bored right now, and this is the first night that lost should be on when it isn't... if there's one thing we'll all agree on, its that there were a ton of questions left unanswered. we can debate on the importance or to what degree the questions received a partial answer, but... there's still plenty "out there". let's see if we can review all of the questions that didn't get answered. here's what i got; maybe there's a better way to categorize or order them, but fuck off.

WALT: here's a series of unanswered poo dedicated to waaaaaaaaalt!!
in a season one episode, walt's adopted father ("white dad") indicated walt had some sorta super power. it was never clarified, but it included thinking of a bird, then having it fly into a windowy death. white dad was freaked enough to hand walt back over to black dad. on the island, walt finds a comic book featuring a polar bear - which later manifests in one charging through the island. he has psychic knowledge of the hatch he's never seen, and tells locke not to open it. soon after, walt was forcibly taken by the others, for reasons unknown. there, they had him involved in all types of experiments and tests (as walt revealed to michael) as well as some cool 1970s skype technology. the others refer to walt as being a very special boy. ...and then they let him leave with michael. we get glimpses of walt off the island, but he also manages to appear on the island, notably when john locke lays in a pit of dead people. walt wasn't dead so it wasn't a smoke monster moment. perhaps another freaky walt power that white dad hated? still later, walt can be seen in tyson chicken commercials. for real.

KIDS: what the hecks the matter with these kids today?
at some point, a rule was made that babies were shit. so guys like widmore made decisions to kill rousseu's baby. ...a baby born on the island in the mid 80s, despite the weird circumstance that prevented babies from being born on the island in the mid 80s. these circumstances also bypassed claire's aaron. why were kids, like walt and those in the tail section, so heavily harvested by the others? why did the psychic flip out when claire said she might not raise her own baby? why were pregnant women (non-stars) on the island dying?

CHRISTIAN / SMOKE MONSTER: sometimes interchangeable, sometimes not
maybe christian was too hard on jack. maybe he was motivating jack. maybe he was fucking jack's wife, who would later be al bundy's daughter. he dies in sydney, shortly after meeting sawyer, claire, and anna lucia, then crashes on magic island with jack and the crew. he's dead, but his body is gone. it's unclear if the smoke monster can take the form of dead bodies, or actually takes their dead bodies. he appears at times in jacob's cabin, but at one point, he's seen with someone else, who startles a peeping hurley. who was the other guy? he appears underground with john locke by the magic wheel, yet says he's unable to help john stand. was he an intangible ghost then? if the smoke monster can't leave the island, how did he appear in the hospital with jack? or the freighter with michael? how did he get on a boat and paddle over to hydra island - specifically not the island he can't leave? if the temple was a smoke-monster-resistant place, then why was there a basement where the smoke monster could hang out and kill folks in?

SYMBOLISM / RULES: despite having meaning by definition, lost's often don't.
the hieroglyphics after the 108 countdown. what the fuck? if the hatch was created in the mid 1970s by american scientist-slash-hippies, why would they make the "you'se all gonna die now" portion of the clock red and black egyptiany symbols? when juliet betrayed ben, ben punished her with a burn symbol on her arm, ala scarlet letter. except, it looked like an asterisk and apparently meant she had an extra 8 games to break babe ruth's home run record. why did the rules say smokey was unable to kill jacob, but jacob could punch the shit outta smokey? why was widmore killing ben's daughter against the rules, but ben killing widmore a-ok? how come smokey can't leave the island, but jacob can come and go as he pleases?

PRE-LOST ISLAND:
who built the giant 4-toed statue? why was it presumed by ancient men that adding a giant ship wheel to a glowing light would lead to fun results? did the dharma initiative continue after everyone on their island team died? who was around to drop the food from the sky? what triggered the food to fall from the sky? if it was the clock counting down, wouldn't that mean the food dropped on a buncha dead and/or radiated people? were ben and ethan pals as kids, so when ben killed dharma, he brought ethan with him? other than killing scientists, how do you join up to become part of "the others"?

aaaaand fin.

Why did the Others grab the kids from the tail section?

What happened to them?

The flight attendant was still around and had even seemed to have "gone native"

I really think they changed the entire concept and direction of the show a few times.

Finally the whole thing just unraveled.

It fell apart when they revealed who Jacob was. The flash deadways was another horrible mistake.

This is not the end of the franchise. I think there will be a Lost movie, Damon and Carlton even signed up for one when they choose an end date. It will most likely be about when Hurley is is charge of the island and why it sank. There will be lots of books written. Probably as many as there have been for Star Wars that will explain most the things we didn't get answers to. There will also be video games that will do the same.

I'll even go as far as to predict there will be another series sometime in the next ten or so years. Maybe one that will focus on Sun and Jins kid. The show will be about him wanting to find out what happened to his parents.

I think the series was great and the finale was great. Not everything can (or should) be explained. Sometimes you have to right off a minor mystery here and there as being part of the atmosphere of the spooky island. There were enough strong character moments to make the show great and the acting was always amazing. Ultimately it was a show about characters and I loved it.