RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books John Byrne: The good years, the bad years, and what the heck went wrong?

Yeah, I think you're right. I've seen mid-1970's Byrne pages of Captain America from early in his career. But this one looks to be on more modern blue-line paper, as you can see at the top of the page.

But there are many early Byrne pages of Captain America, he was clearly hot to do the character in print, long before he ever did.

A new Byrne Rog 2000 cover, on MARS ATTACKS ZOMBIES VS. ROBOTS one-shot, from 2012.



A variant cover.
There's a funny Dave Sim CEREBUS version cover as well.



Here's the same cover in full size.

Current bid: $95,000

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic...sAuction-120115

Un-flippin' beleivable. Ours has definitely become a much more expensive hobby than it used to be. In the 1980's you probably could have picked up that 2-page spread, or any other pages from X-MEN 137, for in the neighborhood of $100 a page or less.

I remember when guys were offering me early 70's DC Kirby pages for 15 to 25 per page, and that was in 1987. When I was at a show in 2012 looking at similar 70's Kirby Marvel and DC original pages, they were in the $2,000 range per page.

https://taint-the-meat.com/2013/08/04/x-men-portfolio/#more-1715

A cool project from 1980, Byrne worked on 2 of the 4 pages for the X-MEN PORTFOLIO, published by SQ Productions in 1980. What appears to be Byrne pencils or layouts, airbrushed and painted by Fastner or Larson.

Without Byrne, Fastner/Larson also did a HULK PORTFOLIO and a SPIDER-MAN PORTFOLIO, all in that 1979-1981 period.
And a later 2nd X-MEN PORTFOLIO, without Byrne, and I think less impressive without him.

From that period I described in my opening post, a time where Byrne pretty much strode over the industry like a god.

A nice late 1970's Marvel Calendar page by Byrne.

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Regarding Roger Stern and John Byrne's run in CAPTAIN AMERICA 247-255, I knew at the time that Stern and Byrne had both left the book abruptly, for reasons not disclosed at the time.
This link on Byrne's site answers that question :

https://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39411

Stern says it was for deadline reasons, and being treated badly by book editor Jim Salicrup.

Byrne has a different recollection that it was Jim Shooter's sudden order that all stories had to be resolved in a single issue, that Stern wanted to comply after completing a 3-part Red Skull storyline he had just plotted. That Shooter insisted had to be condensed to one issue, that Stern resigned in protest, and Byrne resigned in solidarity with Stern.

Byrn'e version rings more true to me, of all the factors involved. Stern's version makes Jim Salicrup look like the bad guy. Byrne's version makes Jim Shooter the bad guy. It could be one reason or both reasons. But ultimately, they both resigned from the series abruptly in protest.

Marvel in the 1970's and 1980's, by many accounts, was not an easy place to work for many. I'd love to see a panel of writers and artists who did work for both Marvel and DC, and see their consensus of whether Marvel or DC was the better place to work. Both seem to have had their good and bad moments.

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A nice photo of Byrne, holding up what looks like his version of GIANT-SIZE X-MEN # 1.

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Byrne again, this time photographed like he was posing for a Macy's Labor Day weekend sale catalog. But with some really nice oversize commission pages.

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Byrne in recent years likes doing stories with photos (or "Fumetti" I guess is the term), and this illustration is done over a photo background.

Another hilarious Rog 2000 illustration/collage by Byrne. With what appears to be himself drawn into the image, as the agitated driver.

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And a favorite of mine by Byrne, the beautiful wraparound cover to Pacific Comics' 1982 collection of Byrne's
ROG 2000 material.



And the black and white original art version of the cover :
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ee/e6/a7/eee6a78a43c87cb04d4b8946514bb713.jpg

And the full collected issue for your reading pleasure, the first story ran in CHARLETON BULLSEYE where Rog 2000 began as a mascot character, and then reprints in black-and-white the other four initial backup stories.
https://viewcomiconline.com/complete-rog-2000-full/
or
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Complete-Rog-2000/Full?id=174663

And here are the full-color versions, backup stories, as they originally appeared in E-MAN issues 6, 7, 9 and 10, in 1975.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/E-Man-1973/Issue-6?id=171774
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/E-Man-1973/Issue-7?id=171775
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/E-Man-1973/Issue-9?id=171777
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/E-Man-1973/Issue-10?id=171769

I still love the earliest stuff the best, such as this illustration for CPL fanzine's reader letters page :

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And this "Rog 2000 meets Howard the Duck" illustration.

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JOHN BYRNE'S MARVEL BULLPEN BULLETINS PAGE BIDS for OVER $30,000 AT AUCTION
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/john-byrns-marvel-bullpen-bulletins-page-over-30000-at-auction/

Wow !

It does stand out as a signature quintessential John Byrne page, but still... wow.
That's quite an aucion price.


Oversize image of the page at :
https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com.../01/d6c5a2e2649a3e763ff95cf16b798c51.jpg


Byrne's page appeared in Marvel issues cover-dated September 1983.

In this issue-scan that includes ads, here it is in ROM 46, also out in Sept 1983.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/ROM-1979/Issue-46?id=53194

In other Byrne issues the same month, it also appears in FANTASTIC FOUR 258, THE THING 3 and ALPHA FLIGHT 2.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/The-Thing/Issue-3?id=87062

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Byrne drawing Superman ("Gladiator", Superman by another name) with the FF, on the cover of FF 249, Dec 1982....
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-249?id=26948
https://onemillioncomics.com/fantastic-four-v1-249/

....and re-visited, on the cover of SUPERMAN 8, July 1987 (cleverly replacing the FF on the DC side with Legion characters having the same powers) .
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Superman-1987/Issue-8?id=16742
https://onemillioncomics.com/category/superman/

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And here's a pretty cool cover Byrne did for Charleton's SPACE 1999 run, on issue 6.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Space-1999/Issue-6?id=171754
https://onemillioncomics.com/category/space-1999/

Byrne did early art on issues 3-6, the last of which Byrne also scripted.
At which point Byrne was increasingly working only for Marvel, and at a better rate of pay.

As I recall, initially working on MARVEL PREMIERE 25, and then IRON FIST 1-15.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Marvel-Premiere/Issue-25?id=49443
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Iron-Fist-1975/Issue-1?id=39862
https://onemillioncomics.com/marvel-premiere-issue-25/
https://onemillioncomics.com/category/iron-fist-1975/

And MARVEL TEAM-UP 53-55, and 59-70, and later 75, 79 and 100.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Marvel-Team-Up-1972/Issue-53?id=34673
https://onemillioncomics.com/category/marvel-team-up-1972/

And just after he finished his IRON FIST run, Byrne did the first issue of his famous X-MEN run (issue 108, Dec 1977).
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Uncanny-X-Men-1963/Issue-108?id=22747
https://onemillioncomics.com/uncanny-x-men-1963-issue-108/

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One more issue worthy of mention, Byrne's first writer/artist story for Marvel, in MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE 50, April 1979
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Marvel-Two-In-One/Issue-50?id=63413
https://onemillioncomics.com/marvel-two-in-one-050/

Where the Thing is given a cure by Reed Richards that should make Ben Grimm human again. But unfortunately, Grimm has been the Thing for too long for it to work, at this stage of his mutation. So when left alone, Grimm has the idea to use Richards' time machine to go back to 1961, and administer the cure to himself at his earliest stage of his mutation, so the formula will work on him.

It's a nice character exploration, of how the Thing was portrayed in his earliest days, and how the character had evolved up to that point over 18 years (from 1961-1979), the things of two eras meeting, where they could be contrasted side by side. An impressive opening offering by Byrne as writer/artist
And a precursor of what Byrne would do in FANTASTIC FOUR 232-293 as writer/artist, with a solid grasp of science fiction, time travel paradoxes, and a good understanding of the FF characters from the earliest days of the series, tapping into the appeal of those earliest issues, returning those elements to the series during his run.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-232?id=26930
https://onemillioncomics.com/fantastic-four-1961-issue-232/

Also interesting to see the FF issues from 1979-1980, circa issues 209-221, when Marv Wolfman was writing the series, and Byrne was just pencilling the series, inked by Joe Sinnott, where Byrne was not at the creative helm, just one part of the FF creative team.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-209?id=26904
https://onemillioncomics.com/fantastic-four-1961-issue-209/


The Moench and Sienkiewicz/Sinnott creative team (FF 219, 222-231, June 1980-June 1981), in the year just preceding the start of Byrne'e run with issue 232, is also an interesting contrast.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Fantastic-Four-1961/Issue-219?id=26915
https://onemillioncomics.com/fantastic-four-1961-issue-219/

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Given the Memorial Day holiday today (and in the weeks leading up to July 4th) , I thought I'd also mention Byrne's CAPTAIN AMERICA run, in issues 247-255.
Teamed with Roger Stern, penciilled by Byrne, with Rubinstein inks. A great little run.

I especially like the issue where Captain America runs for president in issue 250.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Captain-America-1968/Issue-250?id=9492
https://onemillioncomics.com/category/captain-america-1968/

And also the story that partly re-lives Cap's World War II Golden Age glory days in issues 253-254, with an aged Union Jack, Baron Blood, and a mysterious series of vampire murders in the English countryside, coinciding with Cap's visit to the region.






I also loved the opening 3-issue story in 247-249, in a more SF vein, with Cap visiting Nick Fury and a hidden SHIELD tech center in the middle of Manhattan, with a lot of cool robots and futuristic high-tech machinery that Byrne excels at, along with the giant gargoyle-looking Dragon Man.






And the great finale in issue 255, re-telling Captain America's origin story, that again strokes the heartstrings of nationalism and patriotism at the core of what makes the character work. And a nice plus, most of the story is reproduced directly from Byrne's pencils, only partially inked, that also gives the art a nice additional layer of texture and detail, and somehow also adds to the story's Golden Age look and tribute.

This run was also reprinted in the CAPTAIN AMERICA: WAR AND REMEMBRANCE collected trade, with an additional 6 pages of Byrne pencils, for an issue left unfinished when Roger Stern and John Byrne both abruptly quit the series, due to editorial interference, by either Jim Shooter or the book editor, or both. As I recall, Byrne quit, and then Stern left in solidarity with Byrne.
And then Stern took over DOCTOR STRANGE for a great run in 46-73. https://onemillioncomics.com/category/doctor-strange-1974/
And Byrne took over as writer/artist on FANTASTIC FOUR 232-293. https://onemillioncomics.com/fantastic-four-1961-issue-232/

So in a way it worked out, but one can't help but wonder what might have been, if they remained on CAPTAIN AMERICA for another year or two, and finished the storyline they'd in interviews discussed having already plotted.

Roger Stern's best work was on this CAPTAIN AMERICA series, on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 224-250, and on DOCTOR STRANGE 46-73.
Two of the three of which he left because of editorial interference (on SPIDER-MAN, Stern had planned to reveal the Hobgoblin's identity with issue 250, but after a year's worth of buildup, the book editor blocked what Stern had planned, so he left the series. )
Gee, why did Stern leave Marvel to write SUPERMAN? I can't imagine.

I vaguely recall there is a third cover, too, with the same theme.

Goku's using the other hand, because with manga you read from right to left.

The manga swipe file !

I guess the artist's a Byrne fan.

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Byrne's cover from ACTION COMICS 584, Jan 1987, the first issue of Byrne'e roughly one-year run.
Not exactly the same pose, but pretty close.

https://onemillioncomics.com/action-comics-1938-issue-584/
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Action-Comics-1938/Issue-584?id=25856

A Byrne illustrattion, portraying Byrne's creation Rog 2000 ,
reading the hardcover omnibus ESSENTIAL JOHN BYRNE.









I couldn't find the hardcover book shown under that title.
The closest I could find was FANTASTIC FOUR BY JOHN BYRNE OMNIBUS, vol. 1 and vol 2 (2022, 2023).
Or MARVEL UNIVERSE BY JOHN BYRNE (2016).

I think maybe the guy who posted it took the early Byrne issues from the 1970's-1980's period, and had them professionally bound, in a one-of-a-kind personal set of hardcovers for himself.

I've seen the same done by others, where they took individual issues and had them bound together in a personal hardcover collections.

I bought one on Ebay a few years back of a small-press trade collection of Lou Fine's complete Black Condor and The Ray stories, that the seller decades ago had re-bound in a decorative hardcover. Mostly black and white with about 20% in color, but still nice to have. The book has an intro by Jim Steranko.

I've seen other similar custom-made collected hardcovers on Ebay I didn't buy. Where for example, another guy did the same with his CONAN THE BARBARIAN Barry Smith and John Buscema issues. If you have the cash and inclination, making your own hardcover is a way to have a collected edition exactly the way you want it. I was tempted to do the same 25 years ago with Jack Kirby 1970's DC work, or a custom-made complete hardcover set of all Neal Adams work for Marvel and DC.
But then Marvel and DC started publishing all that stuff in nice hardcover editions, and I no longer felt the need.

I wouldn't want to damage nice copies of comics, even if I did make a hardcover. I'd want to purchase Good or VG copies for that mission, if I did it at all. And really, as old as these issues are, 50 years or more old, I'd hate to ruin original comics of that era in any grade.
I talked about my hardcover-binding old comics issues idea with a rare used bookstore owner in my area I grew up with, and he was horrified at the idea.
He looked at me like I wanted to murder children.

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Did John Byrne's Art Ever Drop Off?



This video asks the same question I began this topic with: At what point did John Byrne lose it as an artist?

In the video, he argues that Byrne lost it in the latter third of his FF run, circa 1985-1986, that he narrows down issue by issue to FF 265, 266 and 267.
I would argue the decline was visible a little earlier than that, where Byrne still has a lot of detail, but even with the detail, it was much looser and less decorative than his earlier work, starting to decline back around 247-250.

It was in FF 258 that Byrne in the letters page explained that for several issues up to then, he had already begun drawing in ink, skipping the pencil stage, which made clear to me as a reader he didn't care anymore.
I still enjoyed the series for the writing, and the art was only slightly diminished. but still nice.
I enjoyed the series up till about 275, and only slightly less the issues from 276-293.

Byrne's work on MAN OF STEEL 1-6 and SUPERMAN 1-22, ACTION COMICS 584-600, a one-shot THE EARTH STEALERS special, and other Superman stuff he did, remained somewhat impressive.
But again, below that of his past work such as his X-MEN run, or Byrne's early FF run.
Or his other 1975-1982 Marvel work.
Byrne's version of Superman was out of proportion and way over-muscular, way out of character. Even so though, to a large degree I liked much of Byrne's art and his new story concepts on the Superman titles.
https://readallcomics.com/the-man-of-steel-01-1986-10/ (Byrne's inroductory MAN OF STEEL miniseries, 1-6 )
https://readallcomics.com/superman-v2-001/ (SUPERMAN vol 2, 1987 series, ISSUES 1-22)
https://readallcomics.com/action-comics-v1-584/ ( ACTION COMICS, Byrne in issues 584-600 )
https://readallcomics.com/superman-the-earth-stealers/

https://readallcomics.com/x-men-v1-108/ ( X-MEN, Byrne in issues 108-109, 111-143)
https://readallcomics.com/fantastic-four-v1-232/ ( FANTASTIC FOUR, Byrne as writer/artist in issues in 232-296 and ANNUAL 17. Byrne pencils only on 209-218, 220-221 )


I really never warmed up to any of Byrne's work after that. His SENSATIONAL SHE-HULK run was fun, but again nowhere near his earlier work, and that was the last series of his I regularly bought.
https://readallcomics.com/sensational-she-hulk-001/ (Byrne in 1-8, then returned to do 31-46, 48-50. )


And here are some updated links to the other issues I listed above, since OneMillionComics no longer exists. ReadComicOnline sill exists and has improved, but is still a bit slow loading.

https://readallcomics.com/e-man-06/ ( E-MAN, "Rog-2000" back-up stories by Byrne, in issues 6, 7, 9, and 10. Byrne's first pro work )
https://readallcomics.com/space-1999-6/ ( SPACE 1999, issuues 3-6 wih art by Byrne, issue 6 with both writing and art by Byrne )
https://readallcomics.com/doomsday-1-001-1975/ (DOOMSDAY +1, issues 1-6, also reprinted as issues 7-12 )

https://readallcomics.com/marvel-premiere-025/ ( MARVEL PREMIERE 25,by Byrne, last Iron Fist issue, series then moved to IRON FIST 1-15 )
https://readallcomics.com/iron-fist-01-a-duel-of-iron/ ( IRON FIST 1-15, by Claremont and Byrne )
https://readallcomics.com/marvel-team-up-v1-053/ (MARVEL TEAM-UP , issues 53-55, and 59-70. And later 75, 79, and 100 by Byrne )
https://readallcomics.com/marvel-two-in-one-050/ ( MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE 50, Byrne's first sory as wrier for Marvel, wih Byrne/Sinnott art )
https://readallcomics.com/captain-america-v1-247/ ( CAPTAIN AMERICA, by Stern, and Byrne/Rubinstein art )

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And Byrne in his own words, about his work...

John Byrne: In Depth On Fantastic Four, She-Hulk & Superman - SYFY WIRE

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I was just looking through AVENGERS ANNUAL 14 (1985), scripted by Roger Stern, wi/h pencils by John Byrne/ Kyle Baker inks. I love this annual, because the Avengers and FF visit a space station, and in a night club on the base, the club owner is visibly Humphrey Bogart's character from Casablanca,. And to a certain extent the plot follows the themes of that classic movie, amid the aftermath of a galactic battle between the Skrulls and their imperial galactic opposition. Where a fight is between the two warring sides both there to take leave from the war,a clash between the two sides begins to erupt in the club, and "Bogey" steps out of the crowd in a white tuxedo and, riffing his movie role, says he doesn't allow that kind of rough play in his club.
https://readallcomics.com/avengers-v1-annual-014/

Looking at that issue's Bullpen Bulletins checklist of other issues published the same month, this annual was published on the tail end of AVENGERS 259-260, a new continuation of the Kree-skrull war (back in AVENGERS 93-97).
https://readallcomics.com/avengers-v1-259/
https://readallcomics.com/avengers-v1-260/

And out one issue before Byrne's short six-issue run on INCREDIBLE HULK 314-319 began.
https://readallcomics.com/incredible-hulk-v1-314/

And the same month as FF 284, toward the end of Byrne's classic run in 232-296.
https://readallcomics.com/fantastic-four-v1-284/

And the same month as EPIC ILLUSTRATED 32, with "The Last Galacus Story" by Byrne/Austin, famously left unfinished by Byrne, in issues 26-34
https://readallcomics.com/epic-illustrated-32/

And the same month as Marvel Graphic Novel 18, SHE-HULK by Byrne
https://readallcomics.com/marvel-graphic-novel-issue-18-the-sensational-she-hulk/


All of which shows Byrne still in his heyday at Marvel, about the time he announced he would be doing Superman for DC.

And then suddenly was treated badly by Marvel editors, to the point he abruptly quit all these series, and what had been on Byrne's part intended as a friendly temporary departure from Marvel to work on Superman, compelled Byrne to very publicly and suddenly leave Marvel in disgust on the harshest of terms, leaving many of these series unfinished.
How quickly he went from being a cornerstone at Marvel in work he clearly loved for many years, to feeling compelled to immediately leave because it suddenly became unendurable, so insultingly bad was Marvel's new treatment of him.