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hizzah and the jizzah
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Clones are never cool. Spiderman had serious momentum during the early 90s following Todd McFarlane's mega-popular run, and Howard Mackie single-handedly killed that momentum. "Clone Saga" puts Emerald Twilight/Dawn/Knight/etc. to shame, and that is not an easy feat.
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As bad as some of the other shite was...as far as long lasting shitty effects I have to go with the removal of Hal...aint nothing been handled right with GL since he has gone!
Clones sucked but SPidey was on a downward trend anyway as far as I was concerned.
The Schumaker piece of shit was actually better than the third film. And no real long lasting effects and we still had the Animated Adventures.
Never read Reborn or Liefields Cap so I have no real opinion.
Supes new coustume came and left didnt it? And his marriage isnt by far the worse thing going on in his title at this time.
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As bad as the Clone Saga and the electrical Superman ideas were, Crap-maucher's film was, by far, the worse. It killed the Batman franchise in film. Warner Bros. is now really hesitant on any film idea concerning him. That's why the film versions of Year One and The Dark Knight Returns have been in development Hell. It also made comics a joke to the mainstream again after Burton's movie helped to smooth that image over and even won some new readers to the title.
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id havta go with the spidey-clone
batman and robin, the movie, was ass. but, i dunno, i dont really consider that a "comic" decision.
the new superman costume was silly -- but everyone knew it was temporary, it did boost sales a little, and to be quite honest, it wasnt so bad. it was kinda fun at times, seeing supes (and his friends) adjust to new powers. especially his jla sequences.
hal jordan was in a dying book for mostly his entire existance. he wasn't the first green lantern, so there's no reason he had to be the last. there had been others in the book, plus hal had been replaced a number of times. yeah, the book has been chaos since, but... not so bad.
the others were just silly ideas, but nothing impacting the industry too much.
but the spider-clone was retarded. if for any reason, that the original decision was to stick with the idea (i.e; not just have it be a dream or something). it killed the sales, pissed off fans, and took YEARS to even come close to recovering from. there are a lot of spidey fans that, even now, wont buy anything other than ultimate spidey (in fact, the clone ordeal was one of the main driving forces to create the ultimate line, in the first place).
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
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Anything with R** L*****d's name attached to it.
Crapmaucher's little two hour gayjoke is one of the worst ideas in FILM.
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Batman was going down when Joel Shoe-maker took over. He liked campy butt-fucking crap. I won't even bother with that one. I did like the soundtrack to Batman Forever though (it was directed by him too, he was still trying to hold onto some of Burton's influence).
Now, the Clone Saga Beats GL. But, I still think the installations of Hawkworld was worse than the Clone Saga. I mean, the clone saga was kind of repaired for being, well sucky. But continuity was totally turned to shit for Hawkman when DC told people to just assume that all that stuff with the Atom and Adam Strange and Katar and Shayera Hol never happened. I was blown away. You really don't fix up something on an assumption.
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Despite being continuity-apathetic, I still have some trouble with the partial erasure of the Thanagarian Hawkman.
I never read the clone thing for Spider-man. I picked up a title to see what the fuss was about, flicked through it, and put it back. Damn thing made absolutely no sense to me on my casual appraisal.
So for me the classic fuck-up was the Batman IV movie. Even George Clooney is embarrassed about it (although he acknowledges that it made him a big name actor). The Bat-skates, the Bat mini-screen with the impossibly procured Batvideo of Poison Ivy killing Freeze's wife, the camp...the only redeeming feature was Uma Thurman's acting.
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Waitwaitwait, why is Schumacher's fiasco even an option? The poll is worst idea in comics over the past ten years. Keywords being IN COMICS. Batman and Robin and Batman Forever were movies, not comics.
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That was MY point, Manimal.
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I voted for Liefeld on Captain America.
Batman and Robin is a movie, not a comic. And the others aren't all that bad ideas. Changing Superman's costume? Removing Hal as GL? Heroes Reborn? The ideas themselves are not entirely without merit. You may argue with how they were handled. The creators working on them. You may not like it because it's new, it's change. But the original ideas aren't the problem there.
But putting Liefeld on Cap? That was just fucking stupid.
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Hate to agree with Kampy but if the Bat-movies continued the successes of the first two (argue if you want that they werent good, they did well at the box office and werent camp). Continued success may have encouraged Warners to put otu other DC films and maybe beating Marvel to the punch. You cant argue Marvel's movie success has had a positive impact on the comic scene. quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
...the only redeeming feature was Uma Thurman's acting.
Say WHAT!?! She was doing a poor Eartha Kitt impression! By "acting" do you mean "BOOBIES"?
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You'd think I'd vote for Hal but the GL comic has been shit ever since Crisis!
Liefelds Cap and the rest of Heroes Reborn were worthless but I'm afraid so were the titles before the revamp - with the acception of Cap. Whilst I didn't like Liefelds Cap, I found it highly amusing and I am proud to own these issues, I get them out to see the perfect demostration of comics gone bad!
I have to go for the clone saga also, the Spidey titles were in decline throughout the 90s(at least JRjr was doing the art) I think what offended me most was how Marvel kept going on about serious repercussions that will change Spidey forever.......yeah, we've all heard that before but Marvel really drilled it home. Secondly, I hated how Parker accepted the fact he was a clone and pissed off, he'd never do that and after all the blackmail etc he has experienced in the past, you'd have thought he'd have looked into it more seriously. An awful awful mess of a story, I have nothing good to say about the actual story, though the art was sometimes nice!
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny:
Batman and Robin is a movie, not a comic. And the others aren't all that bad ideas. But putting Liefeld on Cap? That was just fucking stupid.
Well, it depends. Liefeld may be, in hindsight, a terrible artist, but he was a big reason comic books EXPLODED in sales in the early 90s. Just about anything and everything he was attached to sold out. Can't say it was dumb from an economic point of view.
And I'd really really like to hear your justification of the Clone Saga as a good(or "not bad")idea. :)
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Two years later, and we're still waiting for that justification!
From what's been mentioned, I don't see how one could go with anything but the Clone Saga. I mean, Hal being replaced as Green Lantern wasn't a bad idea, it was just handled pretty poorly and with little to no respect to the long time fans of the character's mythos. And Superman's sales were slagging, so a change was needed...it's just blue Superman was the wrong change to make.
However, there was no reason for bringing back the stoopid clone...Marvel should've just found people who could come up with good, fresh stories to tell about Spider-Man, rather than gimmicking the character up with pure nonsense.
And that's terrible.
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Worst idea in the last ten years? Making Rob administrator of the DCMBs! 
-----once over and twice twisted---------
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I'd say last laugh, but it was a good idea, the execution just sucked.
..................Hush.
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Post "Eve of Destruction" X-Men. X-Men history was finally making sense to me - somewhat, anyways. But anything that happened after this story has left me more confused and less interested in X-Men and the rest of the X-Universe than I've ever been before. I especially hate the killing or reforming all the good X-villains, like Mystique, Juggernaut, The White Queen, and Magneto.
Teenage Tony Stark/Tony revealing his Iron Man ID
And I'm with everyone on the Spider-Clone thing.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Okay, I know what I'm gonna say will get me crucified on these boards, so I'll warm up to it a little.
As big of a Spider-Man fan as I am, I never really read Clone Wars. It was in-between my young days of reading comics and my return to them. I've back-read snippets of it, mostly the end, but I've never been able to find a collection of the issues. I missed the whole Kain (sp?) thing. Didn't read any of that. Not that I want to--everything I've heard about it makes me wary, of course. With that said...
...I actually liked Ben Reilly.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say that I like the idea of Ben replacing Peter as Spider-Man or Ben replacing Peter as... Peter. I have read that part and I hated it more than all of you combined. Believe me.
When I say that I liked Ben, I mean everything before that. I liked the idea of Peter having a living blood relative beside his aunts. I really dug the idea of Peter having a brother figure he could confide in. He didn't have to keep his secret from Ben because, after all, Ben was "born" knowing it.
Furthermore, I didn't mind Ben as The Scarlet Spider. As long as he wasn't some kind of replacement for Spider-Man himself, I was cool with it. There are about a half a dozen people running around at super speed in DC, there are currently three GLs (about to be four), and there are about a bazillion heroes running around who attribute their powers to the mutant gene. I had no problem with one additional person running around with Spider powers. Put him in The Avengers so Spider-Man could stay solo. Team him up with Iceman and Firestar for all I care.
Oh, and I really liked Ben's costume. Yeah, it wasn't the original, but it wasn't Peter wearing it, either. And honestly, I thought the design was mad fresh.
I liked Ben Reilly over all. I'm sorry he was killed off because he was considered the culmination of a much greater, shitty idea. And if it wasn't for the fact that it would probably be done in a horrific manner, I'd vote for bringing him back.
There, I said it.
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I also would have said Spiderman was the worst idea, but that's been around for more than ten years.
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It's more than ten years, but I'd go with the whole "Lois knows Clark is Superman" thing.
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Iron Man murderer/Kid Iron Man!
Nick Fury killed by Punisher,but wasnt really!
Aunt May not being dead!
Northstar "coming out" then completely forgetting about it!
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Read Chuck Austen's Uncanny Blegh!-Men, Nowhereman -- Northstar is there as nothing BUT an interchangable gay guy...
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
Oh, and I really liked Ben's costume. Yeah, it wasn't the original, but it wasn't Peter wearing it, either. And honestly, I thought the design was mad fresh.
Yeah, it was pretty neat, what with the HUGE spider design and all.
How did he die?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
I'd say last laugh, but it was a good idea, the execution just sucked.
Agreed.
This probably doesn't count, but...Devin Grayson writing Nightwing.
And Wednesday, I agree with what you said as well. Everything except bringing Ben back. What's done is done.
I think the worst idea was to kill off Hal in the first place. He didn't have to die.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Worst idea?
Identity Crisis.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
rex said:
Worst idea?
Identity Crisis.
Just my oppinion, but shouldn't you wait until the story is finished before you pass judgement?
I'm not questioning your oppinion, I'm just saying, it may not be as bad as you think.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Quote:
rex said:
Worst idea?
Identity Crisis.
Just my oppinion, but shouldn't you wait until the story is finished before you pass judgement?
I'm not questioning your oppinion, I'm just saying, it may not be as bad as you think.
I agree with Rex, the story suX0rs so far and the IDEA itself is stupid.
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Was the spider-clone really that bad an idea?
Wasn't it just Marvel's attempt at character duplication for Spider-man - which they had already done with War Machine, Thunderstrike, and USAgent? (and DC did with Azrael, Artemis, and Kyle Rayner)
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Quote:
rex said:
Worst idea?
Identity Crisis.
Just my oppinion, but shouldn't you wait until the story is finished before you pass judgement?
I'm not questioning your oppinion, I'm just saying, it may not be as bad as you think.
I'm just sick of people being raped in comics.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Devin Grayson's Titans re-launch. The idea being that the five original members (who the fans allegedy wanted most of all) and 5 other members from various Titans eras, but the focus would be on the originals.
First off, the idea that fans wanted the original five most of all is utter nonsense. You ask any TRUE Titans fan and they'll say the love the crew from the Wolfman/ Perez run. Nightwing, Starfire, Donna Troy, Cyborg, Changeling, and Raven.
Secondly, Grayson and her talentless little crony Jay Faerber damn near ruined one of my favorite characters, Damage, in a crappy little tale cleverly (I use italics to denote sarcasm) "Damaged Goods."
There was plenty other nonsense. Still, despite that, Devin's Titans stories showed some merit. The book really went to Hell when Jay Faerber took over the writing. My GOD was that awful.
In short, in the 80's the Teen Titans were one of the hottest franchises going. In the 90's went downhill fast, from Wolfman's decline (he must have gone mad), an all-too-brief but decidedly good run from Dan Jurgens, and then more crap.
Thank God for Geoff Johns. The Titans are enjoyable once more.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
King Snarf said:
In the 90's went downhill fast, from Wolfman's decline (he must have gone mad),
Wolfman blames the editor(s?) he had during that time. I read an interview where he just said outright that the editor would give him an inane, bullshit story and Wolfman would have to write it, since DC wasn't given him much creative control anymore for some reason.
And that's terrible.
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Quote:
Dave said:
Was the spider-clone really that bad an idea?
Wasn't it just Marvel's attempt at character duplication for Spider-man - which they had already done with War Machine, Thunderstrike, and USAgent? (and DC did with Azrael, Artemis, and Kyle Rayner)
And who says those other attempts weren't shitty ideas, too?
Yes, bringing back a dead character from a forgotten story from 20+ years earlier, to not only replace the character the fans were familiar with, but to render said familiar character a "phony" Spidey, was really that bad an idea.
And that's terrible.
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Point taken. Quote:
Kristogar Velo said:
Quote:
King Snarf said:
In the 90's went downhill fast, from Wolfman's decline (he must have gone mad),
Wolfman blames the editor(s?) he had during that time. I read an interview where he just said outright that the editor would give him an inane, bullshit story and Wolfman would have to write it, since DC wasn't given him much creative control anymore for some reason.
That's interesting. I had read somewhere that Wolfman had just run out of ideas.
The thing that really killed Titans though was the Baxter format. They decided to make Titans a premium format book, and take it off news-stands. Dumb. Suddenly it was expensive and you had to go looking for it in comic shops.
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The art didn't help any. Well Grummett left and that other guy (Jaaska?) took over, it just looked awful.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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