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i dont understand. you seem a little upset!
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Oh my god.
......first Winnick, now this?!? What is DC trying to do?!?!?!
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Is this the person who did the crap job on Titans?
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Yes, this is one of the undynamic duo that helped send the Titans into an unholy graveyard. She is 1/2 of the reason I boycotted the Book, and why I STILL haven't picked up a Titans book and why I got into so many damn flame wars on the DCMB. It was that EVIL which is Devin, that brought me to the attention of the NB--The ONLY GOOD THING that can be tied to her. If you add Jay Faeber to the mix, you get the ULTIMATE EVIL.
Thats just scarry. I still can't believe they think this woman got talent! She can't write her way out of a wet paperbag. She is like the limpdick in a gay male porno...of no use at all!
My two cents...debate!
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mm.
not to offend you, dear princess, but... (... shit, im gonna offend you twice).
1) i kinda like her work
2) i dont read titans
i have no clue about her titans stuff. havent heard much good about it, really. but i cant judge for myself. im not a titans fan, so i dont think i'd know good from bad.
all i really know about her work is from gotham knights.
when i first learned she was getting the title, i was disappointed. i felt (even back then) loeb would be a perfect fit. at least someone with some more experience, or at least bat knowledge, rather than a new comer like devin.
but... i dunno...
the more i read the series, the more i liked it. i thought it had an interesting perpsective. i liked her take on the bat family. i liked her storyline where aquaman went to the batcave. i like how she had bruce finally, officially adopt dick.
some really nice stories.
making her shine more, the first issue after she left (the current bane storyline) is the worst batman tale i've read in years.
dunno if you've read'em, but... they're not bad.
ok. flame on!
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quote:
Originally posted by Princess Koriand'r:
Yes, this is one of the undynamic duo that helped send the Titans into an unholy graveyard. She is 1/2 of the reason I boycotted the Book, and why I STILL haven't picked up a Titans book and why I got into so many damn flame wars on the DCMB. It was that EVIL which is Devin, that brought me to the attention of the NB--The ONLY GOOD THING that can be tied to her. If you add Jay Faeber to the mix, you get the ULTIMATE EVIL.
Thats just scarry. I still can't believe they think this woman got talent! She can't write her way out of a wet paperbag. She is like the limpdick in a gay male porno...of no use at all!
My two cents...debate!
Kenya, what is your two cents on the new Titans book?
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My god, just thinking about this hurts....of all creators I'd want DC to not sign exclusively, Judd Winnick and Devin Grayson would be atop the list. Dear lord....
Rob, did you read Grayson's Ghost Rider mini series? It was horrible, one of the worst books I've ever read.
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nope. all i know is her gotham knights stuff. (and i think she mighta wrote an issue or two for other batbooks, before her GK gig).
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Yeah, she wrote a few during "No Man's Land".
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Zod enjoys her Batman stuff, especially Gotham Knights and NML. Zod is really enjoying the Nightwing stuff she has written so far, the first arc was big time action and has refueled the series. Zod also enjoyed her Black Widow stuff she did with Greg Rucka.
Kneel BEFORE Zod!!!
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brother from another mother 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Is this the person who did the crap job on Titans?
yup,she also did a crap job on Ghost Rider.
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She also wanted to make Nightwing gay(to continue the oldest joke in comic books about Batmand and Robin)she acts like a pretentious conceted bitch in interviews(and on message boards) by insulting and generalizing comic book fans, and personally, I found her Batman stories to be boring and dull.
[ 12-15-2002, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Animalman ]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
not to offend you, dear princess, but... (... shit, im gonna offend you twice).
1) i kinda like her work
2) i dont read titans
I'm not offended. Scared for you, feeling I have to show my christian concern for you, but not offened. After Devin and Jay, nothing anyone can do will ever offend me--comicbook wise.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
i have no clue about her titans stuff. havent heard much good about it, really. but i cant judge for myself. im not a titans fan, so i dont think i'd know good from bad.
Oh you'd know. The stink would allert you way before you stumbled across the ca ca.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
all i really know about her work is from gotham knights.
From what I hear GK was a pretty decent title. I never read it because I'm not a huge Batman fan so I can't comment on it. I will admit that the Titans/JLA TP "Technis Imperative" was good. I didn't love it, but I did like it. So when she came aboard as a writer, I figured that while it wouldn't be exciting the way Titans was when Marv Wolfeman was writing--POST DIVORCE, but it would be readable. Boy was I fucking wrong. I reads like a soap! Worse then a soap.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
when i first learned she was getting the title, i was disappointed. i felt (even back then) loeb would be a perfect fit. at least someone with some more experience, or at least bat knowledge, rather than a new comer like devin.
Devin is the type of writer that has to write for the "right" title. Her style don't fall in with the Mainstream DC/Marvel titles. Plus, she so much of a fangirl that she can't relate to other fans or characters that arent her favorites. Not an objective person and certianly not unbiased. Her hatered for the characters she dispises shows in ther writing. When she started Titans, she and Jay made no bones about how they felt about Starfire, Cyborg and Argent. Boy oh boy did that show. She totally butchered the character to the point that when she wrote two of them out of the book, it was a blessing to see them go! She was constantly out of character and to me, it seemed like, especially with Jay, that they had to piss all over the work that Marv and George Perez did just to make the book their own. I can't tell you how screwed up Donna Troy is now! Like she needed ANOTHER ORIGIN!!! To me they were petty ass hack writers and thats all they'll ever expire to be to me. Their total disreguard for the fans and what we was feeling, their KISS MY ASS I'lL DO WHAT THE FUCK I WANT TO THIS BOOK AND I DON'T NEED YOU FOR SHIT" interviews and attitudes helped nail the coffin doors on they ass. By the time they left, was pulled, LOA what ever, it was too late. The book was beyond saving and I, a 20+ year collector had boycotted the book and dropped it from my pull list.
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
the more i read the series, the more i liked it. i thought it had an interesting perpsective. i liked her take on the bat family. i liked her storyline where aquaman went to the batcave. i like how she had bruce finally, officially adopt dick.
Dick is like what? 24-28? And you're telling me that that still mattered to him? He was STILL CRYING TO DADDY " Why didn't you love me enough to adopt me too?" God...whattacopout!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Kenya, what is your two cents on the new Titans book?
For those that don't know, this is what Dave is talking about.
Two New Titans Titles in 2003!
An all-new Teen Titans by Geoff Johns and Mike McKone.
Nightwing and the Outsiders by Judd Winnick and Tom Raney.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
courtesy of http://www.comicscontinuum.com
november 2002
THE TITANS/YOUNG JUSTICE: GRADUATION DAY
Creators: Writer Judd Winick, artist AlŽ Garza, editor Eddie Berganza.
Release: Three issues, Prestige Format, third quarter 2003.
Imprint: DC Universe.
DC description: When a mysterious woman from the future makes an explosive entrance at a S.T.A.R. Labs site, it results in the death of one of the founding members of the Teen Titans! Can either team carry on, knowing that they might have somehow prevented this tragedy? This miniseries leads directly into two new series: Outsiders and Teen Titans.
TEEN TITANS
Creators: Writer Goeff Johns, penciler Mike McKone, editor Eddie Berganza.
Release: Ongoing series, third quarter 2003.
Imprint: DC Universe.
DC description: Being a teenager isn't easy - and nowhere in the DCU is that more evident than in the relaunched Teen Titans, starring Robin, Wonder Girl, Beast Boy, Cyborg, Superboy, Starfire, Impulse and Raven. In character-driven, action-filled tales, this reborn super-team tackles problems that today's teens face, as well as such menaces as Deathstroke the Terminator, Brother Blood, and the Scarecrow.
OUTSIDERS
Creators: Writer Judd Winick, penciler Tom Raney, inker Scott Hanna, editor Eddie Berganza.
Release: Ongoing series, third quarter 2003.
Imprint: DC Universe.
DC descripton: Nightwing leads this new team into action in a monthly ongoing title. These new Outsiders may not fight the glamorous battles. They may not make the front page or the evening news. But these 20-something heroes are where they need to be, taking on threats no one else will.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
courtesy of http://www.newsarama.com
november 2002
Looks like the
picture says it all!
A Teen Titans relaunch
with Starfire, Cyborg,
Beast Boy--- and
new members Impulse
[in a Kid Flash uniform], Superboy, Wonder Girl
and Robin.
[click on image for
larger preview]
If one of the constants of youth is change, then DC’s plans for two of its ‘younger heroes’ books shouldn’t be that much of a surprise. Early next year Young Justice and The Titans will both come to an end. But don’t think of it as so much of a “goodbye” as a “so long for now”, because come next summer, the youngsters of the DCU will be back as strong as ever.
The changes will begin with The Titans/Young Justice: Graduation Day, a three-issue prestige format mini-series written by newly-exclusive DC writer Judd Winick and Gen 13 artist Alé Garza.
“When a mysterious woman from the future makes an explosive entrance at a S.T.A.R. Labs site, it results in the death of one of the founding members of the Teen Titans,” reads DC’s description of the series. “Can either team carry on, knowing that they might have somehow prevented this tragedy?”
“This the end, the death knell for the Titans and Young Justice,” said Winick. “This is where it all goes down. The two teams get involved in a battle against a common enemy. A lot people are going to get hurt.
Graduation Day comes down three issues of a tremendous amount of fighting and property damage.
“But it’s also the catalyst for two new teams, helping define some of the line-ups and setting up the motivation for each team.”
“Teens have to grow up. This will lead to their going to the next level, becoming a new team,” said editor Eddie Berganza, specifically of one of the defunct teams, Young Justice.
This mini-series then leads directly into two new series: Teen Titans and Outsiders, which will both debut with 40-page issue #1’s at the price of a standard DCU 22-pager.
Teen Titans will feature the creative team of writer Geoff Johns and artist Mike (Exiles) McKone.
“This is like a dream project for Geoff,” said Berganza. “He’s told me the first year’s storyline, and it’s amazing. You won’t believe what he has planned.”
One thing the publisher does ask you to believe it the new team’s line-up, because they’ve already revealed it. The new series will star former YJ'ers Robin, Wonder Girl, Superboy and Impulse, along with former Titans Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire and Raven, though Johns tells Newsarama that won’t be the teams’s complete final line-up.
“I chose these characters specifically because, most of them are DC's new generation of teens (Superboy, Robin, etc.) and the others are favorite characters of mine, ones I gravitate toward,” Johns said, adding the line-up’s sort-of ‘resemblance-with-a-twist’ to Wolfman & Perez’ classic New Teen Titans line-up was both intentional and coincidence.
“Why Starfire and Cyborg (not teens) are present will all be explained in the book. And you'll be seeing a different kind of Raven. Plus we have some big plans for Superboy. “
Johns said his approach will be similar to that of JSA - the best of the old and new, but in a different way…“And we’re all shooting for and will be working very, very hard to retain the history while still making this one of DC's most accessible books,” he promised.
The writer also made a point to say Teen Titans will be very different than JSA and his other superhero team book, Marvel’s Avengers.
And speaking of other books, asked what impact this new series will have on his schedule - which currently includes those other two team books (though JSA is co-written with David Goyer), Hawkman, The Flash and your various specials and limited series - Johns responded, “No worries on my part. I write about a book a week, I give everything I do 100%-plus, and I pride myself on being early. Additionally, the Teen Titans doesn't start until July 2003. I'm extremely excited about all the characters I work with and I love spending my days writing.”
The writer went on to say Teen Titans is going to be an “action-filled character-focused book”, with stories revolving around the “fun and horror of being a teenage superhero”.
“There will be real threats [according to DC, Deathstroke the Terminator, Brother Blood, and the Scarecrow!], there will be consequences for their mistakes (because they do make them, even Robin) and we'll be turning these characters on their heads,” said Johns, who expressed his love for writing kids. “Issue #1 alone will feature a major revelation for one of them.
”The greatest thing about writing kids, like Jakeem Thunder and Star Spangled Kid in JSA, is that they do learn, they do evolve and grow.”
Nightwing and the Outsiders!
“We have Jade who
I’m bringing over from
Green Lantern, Metamorpho,
and three newbies …
Grace, a seven-foot
powerhouse who currently
works security in a meta
human bar. Thunder,
Cassandra Pierce,
daughter of Jefferson Pierce,
Black Lightning, and a
team member to be named
after Graduation Day.”
[Yes, that girl peering her
head out from behind the
left of Arsenal is a seventh
member, but Winick doesn’t
want to talk about her yet].
[click on image for
larger preview]
As to that other new superteam book being born out of Graduation Day, that would be Judd Winick and Tom Raney’s Outsiders.
“These new Outsiders may not fight the glamorous battles. They may not make the front page or the evening news. But these 20-something heroes are where they need to be, taking on threats no one else will!” reads DC’s description of the series.
Editor Eddie Berganza quickly pointed out this series doesn’t have much to do with the old Outsiders series, besides one character and some superficial connections.
“Judd is good at doing really different stories, and that’s something that we really want to explore,” said the editor.
Though like Johns (not wanting to give away too much information too soon), Winick told us three basic things about this new series and team:
1.) He wants to make it a great ‘jumping on’ book, i.e. you will have never had to have read any other DC titles before to understand it.
“As a reader, you won’t turn a page and see a villain you've never heard of and are supposed to ‘gasp’ by the sight of,” said Winick. “I will be delving heavily into the past, but it's going to play both ways. If you're a nut for continuity and like a nod to the past, you'll be happy. If not, don't worry, this book will hit all the right chords.”
2.) The book will feature a “new twist” on the old team book concept.
“These guys are not the JLA,” said the writer. “And the basic twist on it, they aren’t as the ol’ expression goes, ‘firefighters … running around and putting out fires’. They will be hunters. They’re going after the bad guys before the trouble starts.”
3.) The premise of the book is as simple as its title. book be filled very unusual characters that don't fit in with the rest of the DCU – outsiders. They are all atypical for one reason or another. Either by choice or by design or by their very nature.
“Each of them has a different reason for being an “Outsider”, said Winick, who also said this series is pretty much a “fresh start” and not connected to the previous Outsiders. “Each of them has their own cross to bear.”
As to who the “them” are, if you haven’t figured it out by the preview image above, the writer filled us in on his line-up…
“The team is lead by Nightwing,” he said. “Dick’s in charge.”
“I'd say that's there's a symmetry to having Nightwing head up the team,” replied Winick, asked if it was Nightwing’s connection to Batman – and therefore the original Outsiders - that led to that choice. “There’s also an irony for Dick … the last thing he really wants to become is like Batman. But it's not working out very well.”
Winick added the promised, “death of the founding Teen Titan” is not Nightwing’s motivation for leading the team, and Berganza added it takes Arsenal to pull him back in and make him a leader.
“We’ve also got Arsenal,” continued Winick, who said he will also use Roy when he takes over Green Arrow only if plans don't conflict with Outsiders.
“Which is easy since I write both books,” he said with a grin.
“We have Jade who I’m bringing over from Green Lantern, Metamorpho, and three newbies … Grace, a seven-foot powerhouse who currently works security in a meta human bar. Thunder, Cassandra Pierce, daughter of Jefferson Pierce, Black Lightning, and a team member to be named after Graduation Day.” [Yes, that girl peering her heard out from behind the left of Arsenal is a seventh member, but Winick doesn’t want to talk about her yet].
“I'd say evolution is a good word for it,” concluded Winick, asked why such drastic changes were being made to DC team-book line-up. “I think the Titans out grew the title and the mantle should be passed along to a group that can bear the original name and concept.
“And the Outsiders, well … they're mostly the younger heroes in their 20's. It will reflect that more than it has before.”
How do I feel? This is the reason why I'll never collect another DC book in my life. This right here. What the fuck? I would rather the Titans die the slow death that Devin and Jay started then for this to happen. Kill the Titans book? Okay, but Kill YJ and turn half of the Titans team to be babysitters? I'm sure Tim Drake would be thrilled about that. That was just stupid! I felt that i was a mockery and so I bid them the best of luck. Who knows, it might bbe a good thing. Me personally, I think DC has a agenda to kill Titans, YJ and the Outsiders beyond the ability of any other writer to resurect.
DAMNED WANKERS!
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
She acts like a pretentious conceted bitch in interviews(and on message boards) by insulting and generalizing comic book fans, and personally, I found her Batman stories to be boring and dull.
So you was there for those flame wars? Yeah, she caused a huge stink on the boards with an interview for ...color4books or something like that. I'm sure the hatemail was awesome for her.
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1. You do not talk about snarf. 7500+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
My god, just thinking about this hurts....of all creators I'd want DC to not sign exclusively, Judd Winnick and Devin Grayson would be atop the list.
Have to agree!
Why sign-em when nobody else wants 'em?
Her Ghostrider was worthless!
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quote:
Originally posted by Princess Koriand'r:
How do I feel? This is the reason why I'll never collect another DC book in my life. This right here. What the fuck? I would rather the Titans die the slow death that Devin and Jay started then for this to happen. Kill the Titans book? Okay, but Kill YJ and turn half of the Titans team to be babysitters? I'm sure Tim Drake would be thrilled about that. That was just stupid! I felt that i was a mockery and so I bid them the best of luck. Who knows, it might bbe a good thing. Me personally, I think DC has a agenda to kill Titans, YJ and the Outsiders beyond the ability of any other writer to resurect.
DAMNED WANKERS!
So you're saying you don't like the idea?
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quote:
Originally posted by Princess Koriand'r:
So you was there for those flame wars? Yeah, she caused a huge stink on the boards with an interview for ...color4books or something like that. I'm sure the hatemail was awesome for her.
Yep, I remember. Infact, the color4comics webpage received so much hate mail from that interview they had to close it down. Sadly, I only saved the link, and not the text of the message, so I no longer have "exhibit A" in why I can't stand Devin Grayson.
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Princess Koriand'r:
Dick is like what? 24-28? And you're telling me that that still mattered to him? He was STILL CRYING TO DADDY " Why didn't you love me enough to adopt me too?" God...whattacopout!
yeah, ok, maybe its not the manliest of topics, but... i still liked it. dick has been seeking bruce's approval for decades, even if he didnt know it. its a "flaw" of the character, which makes him more interesting.
hell, the adoption even made the murderer/fugitive storyline more interesting (when batman says he'll give up the idea of "bruce" his just adopted son flips out with yet another fatherly loss)
it was just a cool lil segment, i guess, on how close the two are. something that coulda/shoulda been done years ago, finally set right. helped to solidify their relationship.
me rikey!
now, that whole "make nightwing gay" talk... thats just nonsense. there's simply no need for it for any reason other than to create controversy. just doesnt fit. how about "make nightwing brazillian?"
regardless, dc would never allow either.
so, does devon really suck in everythign else? ghost rider, titans, etc?
i've read some of her recent nightwing stuff, and it was pretty good. nothing amazing, but not bad.
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Pick up an issue of Ghost Rider and you'll see.
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You know, at first I thought the adoption thing was ok, until I heard her intentions behind it. It was just a segway to insert her homosexual innuendo, the first act of her drive to make Nightwing gay, so as to continue the joke that Batman and Robin were gay lovers. I can't believe I'm actually saying this, but I'd rather have Chuck Dixon on Nightwing than her(and that's really really saying something).
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Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by ROY BATTY:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Animalman:
[qb]
Why sign-em when nobody else wants 'em?
Her Ghostrider was worthless!
Someone seemed to want her and that somebody is DC--God rest their soul, or whatever they have that passes as a soul.
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Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Yep, I remember. Infact, the color4comics webpage received so much hate mail from that interview they had to close it down. Sadly, I only saved the link, and not the text of the message, so I no longer have "exhibit A" in why I can't stand Devin Grayson.
Really? Diz am! So now we get to add "website killer" to her resume? Bet she don't feel bad! I'm quite sure she thinks it was Color4comics fault they closed down! How couldn't anyone not like her?
She's making all the other female writers with real talent look bad!
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
You know, at first I thought the adoption thing was ok, until I heard her intentions behind it. It was just a segway to insert her homosexual innuendo, the first act of her drive to make Nightwing gay, so as to continue the joke that Batman and Robin were gay lovers.
i dont think one had anything to do with the other. in fact, im almost certain they didnt.
the talk of her wanted to make nightwing gay (or at least explore the idea) was abolutely nothing more than talk, if for any reason because DC would never allow it (they're tremendously protective of batman and robin, and all those misplaced innuendos).
further, i think the whole notion was really blown outta proportion. all she really said is that she would like to toy with the idea, and explore the sexuality of a character, like nightwing, who was very well known and mainstream and a ladies man and mid 20s (etc). even if she had full permission, i dont think there was any real intention (or agenda) to produce the story.
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Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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Posts: 377 |
![[eh?]](images/icons/confused.gif) Gay? ![[AAAHHHH!!!]](graemlins/aahhh.gif) Yeah right. Dick Grayson never struck me as the gay type. If you want the truth, Bruce Wayne and his latent Xenophobia and pure "Stick up my ass" uptightness struck me more as gay. Besides---for 14+ years, Dick had this to come home to! Why would he want any other?
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 45,846 Likes: 1
cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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neither one of'em are gay.
and no, i dont think it'd be interesting to explore either as a gay character (any more interesting than it would be to explore either as a brazillian vegetarian charcater). its just not in their character.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
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Posts: 14,896 |
I believe she discusses it(or at least her interpretation of Dick's childhood and how it shaped his personality and sexuality) in an interview over at THE PULSE. I'll try and find it.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 377
Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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Posts: 377 |
Oh gawd...please don't! Haven't we suffered enough?
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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I'm not a Nightwing reader, but doesn't he sleep with lots of women?
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Joined: Oct 2000
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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mmhmm.
batman does too. even while denny o'neil wrote the books. ... until denny o'neil later unwrote his own books, and everyone elses.
whoops!
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 377
Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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Posts: 377 |
Yeah, I know and much to my everlasting shame, I have a copy of Nightfall in Hardback in my bedroom. Damn...now I'm depressed.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
mmhmm.
batman does too. even while denny o'neil wrote the books. ... until denny o'neil later unwrote his own books, and everyone elses.
whoops!
Son of the Demon was one of the better Bat-stories I have read. Editorial decree has rendered it an Elseworlds. Fucking stupid. Best bit of development in Bats' life ever, and Denny decides Bats doesn't have sex.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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the oddness is multiplied by 50 when y'realize denny nixed his own creation!
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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Queen of Bitching and Moaning 300+ posts
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Denny's views on Batman and Dixon's on Nightwing were WORTHLESS! Granted, Not as worthless as Devins but even among hacks, there must be a line drawn.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
the oddness is multiplied by 50 when y'realize denny nixed his own creation!
I thought Miuke Barr wrote Son of the Demon?
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Joined: Oct 2000
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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ahhh... correct. i confused birth of the demon and son of the demon
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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SOTD was about Talia getting knocked up by Bats. Junior Wayne is deposited with some kindly people in the mid-west, identifiable only by some jewellry aroound his neck.
Kingdom Come suggests this person became Ibn Xuffasch (sp?), which apparently is Arabic for Son of the Demon.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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yeah, i remember the two books, just confused their creative staff.
and, oddly, the bruce wayne's son, ibn, who has appeared in kingdom and ... one other book, i think, is suppsedly, separate from the one conceived by talia in son of the demon -- again, so says denny o'neil.
crazy old coot
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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No doubt suffering from the same dementia as Azrael.
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