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He fixes the cable?
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First National Bastard:
The original plan was to marry them, but when ABC decided to do the TV show they asked the comic book guys to delay the wedding till it could happen on the TV show.
Killing Superman had become a running gag at the Super-Summit annual meetings and when they didn't have anything for 1992 and 93 after they had to put the wedding on hold they decided to go with it instead.
TK:
Seen better (the kind that would go on the women board, lol), not that these sucks... well, the one with the dog's freaky.
Krypto's cousin Arg (for Argo...)
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Ya know, when I originally posted, I thought maybe I shoudl say something like "however, the TV Show could've been in pre-production at the time and stymied the marriage", but I just said fuck it, so someone would correct me and I would learn something.
And I'd hit all them Supergirls... 'cept the Dog.
First National Bastard
-Enormous, Sexually Voracious Lecher... who wants to claim your immortal soul!!!.
Every time you masturbate, God Kills a kitten! Please... think of the Kittens.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!
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Licensing has a HELL of a lot to do with it. But I suppose John Stewart being the Green Lantern in the JLA comic now is just a coincidence, right? Why don't you take a look around? Notice that Toad in X-Men greatly resembles the movie version? Or all the Hugh Jackman look a like covers they've done in the past few years? Batman quickly went from using batarangs to scale buildings to that neat little gadget from the Burton film with no explanation. (a change that works, and makes sense for once.)
Kyle Rayner? No problem with Kyle Rayner other than being written poorly 90% of the time. But just this year we've seen rumors of Hal coming back to Green Lantern. At this stage, they're still rumors, and I hope they stay that way. But once again, as soon as the Justice League cartoon took off, here's John Stewart, resplendant in his animated show uniform, complete with green glowing eyes. After years of him also being in a wheelchair, I might add.
Not to mention how Metropolis, Krypton and Supergirl's costume turned into their animated counterparts when Superman Animated came out, and how they're trying as hard as they can to resemble Smallville right now...
I'd forgotten about those. Good call.
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Grimm implied... no, downright said that I shouldn't expect long term change in comics and he' s wrong.
I hope I am wrong.
I hope Barry Allen stays dead. I hope Hal Jordan gets to join him. I hope Dick Grayson remains Nightwing, and Barbara Gordon remains Oracle.
But when I see Oliver Queen come back from the dead, when I see f u c king Krypto flying around next to Superman, when I see that Jeph Loeb and Mike Turner are about unleash the fifth post-crisis Supergirl, when I see the Super-family and Bat-family slowly and surely making their way back into comics, I don't feel I am.
I have one last thing to say on this topic. Mota has held up Lois and Clark's marriage as an example of change. Yet, by his very definition of change it cannot be. Because it's happened before. The Golden Age Superman and Lois were married for many years. Therefore, it cannot be a change as it has already happened. Good night.
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Yeah, like they didn't tell us "Superman is dead! For real!" "There's a new Bat-Man! Forever!" "The Forever People are adults!" "Darkseid is dead!" "A new, darker, Flash has arrived ready for the new century!" "An updated Superman right in time for the new century!"
Mxy...tell me you didn't believe these lies....
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Bucky's been dead since the 40s. Uncle Ben since 1962.
But anyway, wasn't Oliver Queen always meant to return?
Didn't Chuck Dixon say he had a plan to bring Oliver back, but DC Wanted it done quicker, by Kevin Smith, and that's why Ollie was declared officially dead?
First National Bastard
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Every time you masturbate, God Kills a kitten! Please... think of the Kittens.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!
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They wanted it done quicker, so they got Kevin Smith?  I don't think he was always meant to return. He might've been, though. But if they wanted it quicker surely it would've been easier to just continue the ongoing at that point, right? I seem to recall an interview with Smith where his big point in taking on the book was for them to let him bring Ollie back. "Let me bring back Ollie and I'll get the sales up." From that interview, I took it that beforehand, they had no plans to bring him back.
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Dude, it's not my fault that you were naiive enough to actually swallow when DC told you that Azrael becoming Batman and Wallace West replacing Wally were permanent.
I knew the changes were bullshit as soon as I read about them (except for Knightfall and Death of Superman... I was 7), and that's what pisses me. All those changes are promoted as being real. There's no difference in how DC advertised Superman's wedding (one of the few lasting changes you're clinging to) and how they advertised his change of powers. It was obvious that the power change wouldn't last because, well, it was lame. Same for the Dark Flash.
Pick up DC's latest solicitations and name one change announced there that will last. Take last month's solits and do the same. Go back to the beggining of the year.
Tell me, what was the impact Superman's change of powers had in the Superman books one year after it was over? Six months after it was over? I'm talking about the period before the book was "revamped", when Jurgens and company were still on board.
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Like I said, change more often then not happens when a character grows into it or is pushed into it, like Lois & Clark getting married and Barbara being shot.
I dare you to name as many lasting changes as you can. Deep down you know I'm right, otherwise you would have already tried to do that.
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Uh... Superman #75 happened in November 1992. The TV Show didn't even debut until 1993... most likely September 1993. At that time, Superman was dead. Yet that didn't affect the TV Show, now did it?
Woulda been a shitty thing if the TV Show had debuted with a dead superman, and four guys running around pretending to be him.
The show hadn't debuted when Superman #75 came out but it was being planned. If you look at the issues in the months before the Death, you'll see that everything was pointing towards the marriage, which was gonna happen in the next landmark issue (Superman #75 was the closest). Then the higher ups ordered that the marriage was postponed because a show about Lois and Clark relationship was being planned. Carlin (the Superman editor at the time) had to come up with a new "big" event to happen in #75 (they were expecting a lot of media attention for the Wedding) so the Death of Superman saga was born. I've read about this several times, once in a interview with Carlin.
If you read that saga (Death, Return, Reign) you get the feeling that you don't know what's gonna happen next which makes it pretty cool, and that's because the writers themselves didn't know very well what was gonna happen next (like Karl Kesel admitted once).
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Yeah, like they didn't tell us "Superman is dead! For real!" "There's a new Bat-Man! Forever!" "The Forever People are adults!" "Darkseid is dead!" "A new, darker, Flash has arrived ready for the new century!" "An updated Superman right in time for the new century!"
Mxy...tell me you didn't believe these lies....
No, Davey... That was my point.
Well, as I said before, I believed the first two... They were in fucking CNN!!!
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If Ollie was meant to return, isn't that even worse?
Barry Allen was suppoused to come back, if I recall... Then someone at DC said "Wait, what if he stays dead?!" and everyone looked at him and said "Whoa...".
What I mean is, can you believe ANYTHING they tell you? When the whole attractive of a story arc is that it's making changes, what's the point of it if you know in a year or less they won't matter? That's what's wrong with Superhero books nowadays: they're pointless. If they can't make lasting changes they should try to make the stories enjoyable by other means... Like, good writing, but I suppouse that's asking too much.
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No Man's Land gave birth to the current Batgirl.
A Lonely Place For Dying introduced the current Robin.
Death in the Family killed Jason Todd.
Man of Steel made it so Superman was the only Kryptonian, as well as brought back the Kents.
I haven't followed the character for awhile, but Black Canary, far as I know, shouldn't have her sonic scream anymore since she was tortured and had her vocal cords slashed.
While Superman died and came back repercutions from that event are already active today, mainly Superboy and Steel.
Zero Hour rebooted the Legion and that continuity's still active.
Aquaman lost his hand almost a decade ago and it's still lost.
Ocean Master (or was it Black Manta?) killed Arthur Junior.
Hector Hall's the current Fate and looks to still be the only one for years to come.
There's a new Mr. Terrific, a new Dr. Mid-Nite and a new Hourman because the originals died almost a decade ago.
Odds are they'll stay dead.
From a current Previews, Kon-El/Superboy is joining the Legion. This is a long term change that will still matter a year from now.
From a current Previews, Impulse has become the new Kid Flash.
This change will last till he becomes Flash.
How's that?
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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You think that's "a lot"?! You think that surpasses the number of changes that have lasted less than a year? I thought you'd get around twenty, but you got even less.
And stop and think about those changes for a second. Most happen for characters nobody gives a damn about (Jason Todd), that were unused for years (Hector Hall... around a decade, I think), or that have their collections cancelled (Impulse and Superboy). What do these characters have in common? They don't make money. Superboy and Impulse did once, but obviously not anymore if they got their series cancelled. If they don't make money, writers can do whatever they want with them because chances are they won't become less profitable. The current costume and attitude change for Superboy: do you think that would have happened when he was the hottest DC character around? Would Hal Jordan have been turned into Parallax if his book had been selling a lot? Do you think Jason Todd would have been killed if hadn't been so unpopular? I'm not sure, but I think the Legion books weren't selling very when Zero Hour came around.
Speaking of Superboy and Impulse: If I'm not mistaken the Superboy that joined the Legion isn't Kon-El, but a younger version of Kal-El (Hypertime, I'm guessing...). Let's see how much that lasts. And what's the big difference between Impulse and Kid Flash II, other than the costume change? Did Bart change his personality or something?
You'll find that the exceptions to what I'm saying are, surprise surprise, the same exceptions I've been talking about all along. Superman, Barry Allen... MAYBE Barbara Gordon.
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Two things:
You're wrong about Superboy in the Legion. Hypertime is not involved.
Both Clark Kent (from Man of Steel continuity, not Birthright) and Kon-El (Superboy) are involved in the story.
The Superboy dressed in the classic look is Kon-El while Clark Kent has been turned evil by Darkseid. He's the one the Legion and Superboy are fighting on one of the covers of the series.
If you want looooooooooooooong term change on a MAJOR character then look for further than Wonder Woman.
I dare you to claim that she's the same today in the Rucka comics as she was in the Perez comics.
Back then she was an innocent 17 year old, wide eyed teenage girl and now she's an experienced warrior, a grown up woman and not so innocent anymore.
You want more change in another major character?
Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing, which was growth driven and not sales driven.
Aqualad becoming Tempest, which was creative driven and not sales driven as this was a supporting character in another book.
Oh, and btw, Aquaman IS a major DC Icon, he was a freaking Super Friend, so his hand still being missing and his baby still being dead are long term changes.
Speaking of Aquaman, change doesn't happen with the heroes only.
Black Manta was altered during Underworld Unleashed to be a mutant Mantaray and he's still that today.
Blockbuster, the dumb muscle from the old Suicide Squad, was turned into a genius... and he's still one today.
Mongul was killed and his twin children grew up and took his place as Superman's enemies.
An upcoming change is Rucka's "Last Ra's Al Ghul" story... we'll see how long that lasts.
Long term change: Mary Marvel's costume following Ordway's series is white instead of red like her brother's. Minor change but long term.
Speedy became Arsenal = long term change. Again, didn't happen because of sales since he wasn't selling anything, he was a supporting character that was allowed to grow up and change.
I mean, think about it. TEEN Titans was a best seller, so making them grow up would go AGAINST sales driven storytelling, right?
It still happened and wasn't undone.
If it hadn't been for Berganza destroying the Superman franchise, another long term change would have been Hyppolyta being dead and Paradise Island being in the Bermuda Triangle, but since because of what Berganza's doing the events that lead up to that MIGHT be undone soon, those changes MIGHT vanish... if they don't, then they count on the list.
Another long term change would be Byrne making Hyppolyta the WW II Wonder Woman.
Unless you decide that it's not real change since she's just replacing Diana in the role...
If I come up with any more and you remind me I'll post them...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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That's 24 changes listed.
Debunk away....
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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that should be "look no further than Wonder Woman"
The edit funtion here sucks.
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Quote:
Two things:
You're wrong about Superboy in the Legion. Hypertime is not involved.
Both Clark Kent (from Man of Steel continuity, not Birthright) and Kon-El (Superboy) are involved in the story.
The Superboy dressed in the classic look is Kon-El while Clark Kent has been turned evil by Darkseid. He's the one the Legion and Superboy are fighting on one of the covers of the series.
And you think Clark Kent will stay as a recurrent villain and not be returned to his time with no memory of the events?
So Kon-El joins the Legion... with the classic costume, no less. I wonder where I've seen a Superboy like that in the Legion.
Superboy leaving the Legion was a big fuss in the mid 80's and now, if you're right, that change has been undone. Sure it's a very different version of Superboy... at least it was when Kesel wrote him. Now, from what I see, he's basically what the pre-Crisis Superboy was, a less experienced version of Superman.
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If you want looooooooooooooong term change on a MAJOR character then look for further than Wonder Woman.
I dare you to claim that she's the same today in the Rucka comics as she was in the Perez comics.
Back then she was an innocent 17 year old, wide eyed teenage girl and now she's an experienced warrior, a grown up woman and not so innocent anymore.
...like she was pre-Crisis.
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You want more change in another major character?
Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing, which was growth driven and not sales driven.
Right, Dick Grayson grew. As did Wally West, Roy Harper, Donna Troy and even Beast Boy (I'm not so sure about Starfire, Cyborg and Raven... they seemed different the last time I saw them but now it seems they reverted to taller versions of their original incarnations). What do these characters have in common?
Their changes happened because of one series and one series only: the Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans. Wally West also grew in his own title, but that was a direct consequence of the changes made by Wolfman.
Think about it: Those changes happened over a decade ago and since then the characters have remained static. In Wally's case, he continued changing when the others had stopped thanks to Messner-Loebs and then Waid, but even he got stuck after Flash #100.
I've often said that if all comics were like the Wolfman/Perez Titans run, where they dared to make their characters grow, Superhero comics would be a lot better and a lot less pointless. Of course, real growth like that would fuck up continuity: The biggest incosistency in the DCU is the fact that these sidekicks grew so much while their mentors remained the same. I'm sure there's some lame retroactive explanation for that... But imagine the continuity mess if ALL characters grew like the Titans did. I wouldn't mind it, in fact, I'd love to see something like that happen just for the reactions it'd get, but I sense you wouldn't feel the same as me.
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Aqualad becoming Tempest, which was creative driven and not sales driven as this was a supporting character in another book.
Oh, and btw, Aquaman IS a major DC Icon, he was a freaking Super Friend, so his hand still being missing and his baby still being dead are long term changes.
Yeah, he's a DC icon... yet his 1991 series failed miserably, leaving him open for change. Same with Aqualad: they weren't making any money so PAD could do pretty much whatever he wanted. This gave Aqualad a chance to catch up with his Teen Titan contemporaries and become Tempest. Let's take a look at the first issues of the PAD series: First couple of issues, Aquaman loses his hand. Big shake up. Then, team up with Superboy, the second hottest DC character of the moment. Then, team up with Lobo, the hottest DC character of the moment. Seems like someone was desperate for attention, eh?
Aquaman changing his whole look and losing his hand like that was a big change, product of the lousy sales of his previous series. And even that change is being undone: in the new Aquaman series he gets a water hand and goes back to the Superfriends look.
As for the baby, well, that's something that has always shocked me. One of the few exceptions.
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Speaking of Aquaman, change doesn't happen with the heroes only.
Black Manta was altered during Underworld Unleashed to be a mutant Mantaray and he's still that today.
Who cares about Black Manta? How much money has this guy made?
What was the whole poing of Underworld Unleashed? Taking a bunch of unused villains and updating them so they became rentable.
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Blockbuster, the dumb muscle from the old Suicide Squad, was turned into a genius... and he's still one today.
And, as we all know, Blockbuster was the top selling DC character before that happened...
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Mongul was killed and his twin children grew up and took his place as Superman's enemies.
His twin children being replicas of himself.
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An upcoming change is Rucka's "Last Ra's Al Ghul" story... we'll see how long that lasts.
Long term change: Mary Marvel's costume following Ordway's series is white instead of red like her brother's. Minor change but long term.
Minor change, no risk. Even if it wasn't minor, how popular is Mary Marvel?
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If it hadn't been for Berganza destroying the Superman franchise, another long term change would have been Hyppolyta being dead and Paradise Island being in the Bermuda Triangle, but since because of what Berganza's doing the events that lead up to that MIGHT be undone soon, those changes MIGHT vanish... if they don't, then they count on the list.
No idea what you're talking about.
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Another long term change would be Byrne making Hyppolyta the WW II Wonder Woman.
Unless you decide that it's not real change since she's just replacing Diana in the role...
You said it yourself. Big time undoing of a change. And unnecessary, too. Even the changes made by Crisis are being undone.
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I know I said I'd had my last words, but I just wanted to point out a couple of things.
Black Canary does, in fact, have her sonic scream again.
Aquaman in a familiar looking orange and green costume.
Superboy in the Legion again.
The Teen Titans series relaunches with a lineup eerily similar to the one on the new cartoon. Also reminiscent of the original Wolfman/Perez era.
hmm. . .
Incidentally, the Wolfman/Perez Titans was a major catalyst for change and many of those characters did grow a lot. But they've mostly stopped. I'm pretty much in agreement with Mxy's thoughts on this title.
Personally, I loved Hyppolyta as Wonder Woman. I thought that was a great idea and that they should've done that from the reboot on. But, yes, it is a reversion of sorts, as it puts Wonder Woman back in the golden age. Even though it's a different WW.
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but I sense you wouldn't feel the same as me.
Wrong... for the first time we agree.
Brace yourselves, the world's gonna end today...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Yeah, like they didn't tell us "Superman is dead! For real!" "There's a new Bat-Man! Forever!" "The Forever People are adults!" "Darkseid is dead!" "A new, darker, Flash has arrived ready for the new century!" "An updated Superman right in time for the new century!"
Mxy...tell me you didn't believe these lies....
No, Davey... That was my point.
Well, as I said before, I believed the first two... They were in fucking CNN!!!
I blame the liberal press.
While we're not on the subject was the brunette Supergirl with the short dark hair a clone like Superboy?
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http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazines/wizard/WZ20031222-five.cfm
Michael Turner admits that the blonde girl with the red eyes on the cover to Superman/batman #8 is indeed Supergirl.
Let this be the last time for a while and let DC give us a character that makes sense and is likeable...at the same time. Apparently she will have the midriff of the animated Supergirl, but also look like an updated version of the classic kara model???? You got me...As long as she isn't from the future, the past, or a robot..I don't care ...
Suposedly this week Superman #200 also does away with the Byrne Superman and aligns us with the new updated Superman: Birthright origin.
Poor MOTA must be having hyperventilating panic attacks......
And inevitably, DC will find a way to screw this up completely. They always manage to botch updates of classic characters.
And after two already lame post-Crisis Supergirls (Matrix/Linda and Cir-El) and the long-ignored Kara from the Aliens crossover, do we really need another Supergirl so soon? DC's kinda beaten this into the ground already.
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Yeah, like they didn't tell us "Superman is dead! For real!" "There's a new Bat-Man! Forever!" "The Forever People are adults!" "Darkseid is dead!" "A new, darker, Flash has arrived ready for the new century!" "An updated Superman right in time for the new century!"
Mxy...tell me you didn't believe these lies....
No, Davey... That was my point.
Well, as I said before, I believed the first two... They were in fucking CNN!!!
I blame the liberal press.
While we're not on the subject was the brunette Supergirl with the short dark hair a clone like Superboy?
Yup. How did you guess? Nice avatar, btw.
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I have one last thing to say on this topic. Mota has held up Lois and Clark's marriage as an example of change. Yet, by his very definition of change it cannot be. Because it's happened before. The Golden Age Superman and Lois were married for many years. Therefore, it cannot be a change as it has already happened. Good night.
Not to mention Clark and Lois were also married for a spell in the Superman newspaper strip. Again, not change, but following an old tradition. Of course, we all know how MOTA hates any tradition that isn't of the Byrne/Jurgens era....
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I have to admit I prefer the idea of clones to the idea of numerous survivors of planet which had a population of super-powered individuals. Besides, this new Supergirl clone is cute and kind of looks like what I imagine Superman's daughter would look like.
Thinking about it, it doesn't make sense that Kryptonians didn't colonise though. They had a huge competitive advantage.
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I have to admit I prefer the idea of clones to the idea of numerous survivors of planet which had a population of super-powered individuals. Besides, this new Supergirl clone is cute and kind of looks like what I imagine Superman's daughter would look like.
Thinking about it, it doesn't make sense that Kryptonians didn't colonise though. They had a huge competitive advantage.
Very true Dave. One would think a society as technologically advanced as Krypton would have achieved some kind feat associated with space exploration. I'd also like to add that I to believe that other survivors from Krypton should exist. I feel having an evil counterpart of Superman (such as Zod) shows just how special Clark really is (by not being corrupted by his omnipotence)
"Life ain't nothin' but bitches and money" - Ice Cube
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There was an explanation to the fact that they didn't colonize: thanks to the erradicator, if they left the planet they'd die. Then the erradicator itself left the planet, so they were all fucked forever.
Of course, that story happened over ten years ago so practically no one knows about it nowadays and if someone cares enough about the story to suggest that it should prevent writers nowadays from introducing kryptonian characters when they really believe they should, then that person should be shot in the head.
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Quote:
There was an explanation to the fact that they didn't colonize: thanks to the erradicator, if they left the planet they'd die. Then the erradicator itself left the planet, so they were all fucked forever.
Of course, that story happened over ten years ago so practically no one knows about it nowadays and if someone cares enough about the story to suggest that it should prevent writers nowadays from introducing kryptonian characters when they really believe they should, then that person should be shot in the head.
And only the Byrne/Jurgens Sycophants liked that story. Most everyone else either didn't care one way or the other or they thought it was stupid.
Personally, it makes no sense to say that only ONE Kryptonian made it out alive. The Phantom Zone was used as a prison for Kryptonian convicts. Why couldn't there be survivors in there? And in the animated series, Argo was Krypton's sister planet, so obviously they colonized it some time back. And Odiline from the Superman/Aliens crossover was very Krypton-like, and Daxam is home to folks with similar powers to the Kryptonians and Argoans. Why couldn't Argo, Daxam, and Odiline all be Krypton's sister planets? In no way, shape, or form would this take away Superman's uniqueness: he's a child of two worlds, a son of Krypton and Earth--or rather, he's SUPPOSED to be. Having Kryptonian villains like the TRUE General Zod (who I think should be responsible for the destruction of Krypton when his planned coup fails) in the Phantom Zone and having sister planets to Krypton is not going to deprive Superman of his dual heritage situation. Only a mindless Byrne/Jurgens zealot would believe otherwise.
Last edited by King Krypton; 2003-12-31 4:20 AM.
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some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm? 5000+ posts
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You: WAAAAAAA!!
The Phantom Zone is a place for Kryptonian criminals. I need more Kryptonians to enjoy a comic about the last survivor of a dead world.
Man, give it a break. Either you like Superman for what the concept is or you don't, period.
Honestly, if you need all this additions to enjoy the concept why the hell bother?
It says that you don't really give a fuck about theconcept and all you care about is the cute additions, additions that were discarted for being LAME and for WATERING down the main concept.
The Phantom Zone is a storage dimension for discarted Kryptonian technology.
DEAL with it or go into a corner and suck you finger like the baby you are...
Mxy: Shoot people for prefering a story you don't?
And Byrne fans are the sycophants?
Fuck man, do you even bother to think before you post or are you really this fucked up?
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Speaking of MOTA's Byrne/Jurgens mania, check this out: http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/107199124484684.htmScroll down the page and you'll see an article about MOTA's harrassment of Mark Waid and his spamming of the comic book message boards with his anti-"anything that's not 1986-1999" fundamentalism. Methinks his rep as a troll is now set in cement.... 
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Oh no, you've insulted me, what will I ever do?
You're pathetic...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Speaking of MOTA's Byrne/Jurgens mania, check this out:
http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/107199124484684.htm
Scroll down the page and you'll see an article about MOTA's harrassment of Mark Waid and his spamming of the comic book message boards with his anti-"anything that's not 1986-1999" fundamentalism. Methinks his rep as a troll is now set in cement....
Quote:
Waid isn’t the only one fed up with ManofTheAtom’s comments. Other posters, like Sean Brady, have felt the weight of his relentless bitching. “This section has turned into a forum that now only exists to give MOTA a soapbox to stand on so that he can constantly rant about continuity and canon, and sabotage as many threads as possible with his repetitive comments.
“Mark, there are many of us who would love to chat with you about this book, but this will never be the place to do it while it's MOTAs playground. Kinda sad really seeing that this is the official DC message board.”
Personally I’m a huge fan of Waid’s Birthright. I just have one question, “Where the hell is the moderator?”
He's here!
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Quote:
And only the Byrne/Jurgens Sycophants liked that story. Most everyone else either didn't care one way or the other or they thought it was stupid.
Actually, I liked it. I just don't think it should have any effect on what happens today.
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Quote:
Mxy: Shoot people for prefering a story you don't?
And Byrne fans are the sycophants?
Fuck man, do you even bother to think before you post or are you really this fucked up?
I said "with an air rifle". That way, it hurts like hell, but it doesn't kill you.
And I didn't say you deserved it for liking the story! That would be insane! I said you deserved it for thinking it should be taken into consideration in current stories. There's a difference, see?
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That's just fucking hilarious. Soon they'll make an article about MOTA in Newsarama, and then, who knows, maybe Wizard! I can imagine the cover...  "WOULD SOMEONE TELL THIS GUY TO SHUT UP?"
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Quote:
You: WAAAAAAA!!
The Phantom Zone is a place for Kryptonian criminals. I need more Kryptonians to enjoy a comic about the last survivor of a dead world.
Man, give it a break. Either you like Superman for what the concept is or you don't, period.
Honestly, if you need all this additions to enjoy the concept why the hell bother?
It says that you don't really give a fuck about theconcept and all you care about is the cute additions, additions that were discarted for being LAME and for WATERING down the main concept.
The Phantom Zone is a storage dimension for discarted Kryptonian technology.
DEAL with it or go into a corner and suck you finger like the baby you are...
So, King Krypton doesn't like Superman?
I like the Jurgens and company version, I just think it should remain in the past like all the other incarnations (that are equally valid). What does that make me? Do I like Superman or not? Please tell me, I'm dying to know...
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Heh, imagine if that guy who wrote the MOTA article knew about MOTA's Crazy Continuity Conspiracy theory... Maybe I should drop the guy a line.
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Quote:
Quote:
You: WAAAAAAA!!
The Phantom Zone is a place for Kryptonian criminals. I need more Kryptonians to enjoy a comic about the last survivor of a dead world.
Man, give it a break. Either you like Superman for what the concept is or you don't, period.
Honestly, if you need all this additions to enjoy the concept why the hell bother?
It says that you don't really give a fuck about theconcept and all you care about is the cute additions, additions that were discarted for being LAME and for WATERING down the main concept.
The Phantom Zone is a storage dimension for discarted Kryptonian technology.
DEAL with it or go into a corner and suck you finger like the baby you are...
So, King Krypton doesn't like Superman?
I like the Jurgens and company version, I just think it should remain in the past like all the other incarnations (that are equally valid). What does that make me? Do I like Superman or not? Please tell me, I'm dying to know...
Once again, MOTA lives up to the old "Byrne/Jurgens Sycophant" tag. Worse still, he's the very embodiment of it. I find it oh-so-ironic that he claims that anyone who likes elements of the past incarnations "doesn't care about the concept" when he himself has proven ENDLESSLY that he has no use for any version of the character other than the Byrne/Jurgens version, which was LOADED with its own stuff that watered down and damaged the character. Further, he has said several times that everybody who came before Byrne, including Siegel and Shuster, got Superman all wrong. So much for his "respect for the concept." He doesn't even have any use for the men who created the concept in the first place!
Further, let's take a look at the Superman they created in the Golden Age. They never once said how Superman and Lex Luthor met. When Luthor first shows up, he and Superman have already butted heads before, so they obviously have a past history. Nothing there that states they didn't grow up together. There's also nothing at all in the early material that says that only ONE Kryptonian got off the planet. We see the ship take off and that's that. Again, there's nothing that says the Phantom Zone couldn't possibly exist as a prison or that Krypton didn't colonize other planets. And Siegel and Shuster themselves created Superboy with the idea that Superman would have been a prankster as a kid; DC just revised the idea to make it about a Superman in training. Siegel and Shuster were already going to rewrite Superman's past. As for the "concept," Siegel and Shuster created Krypton as a doomed utopia, the very thing MOTA says is inherently degrading to the very "concept" of Superman. Again, ignorant hatred of the creators and no respect for their work, and the oh-so-blatant assertion that Byrne knew better than Superman's own creators did. And for all his whining about how the Phantom Zone and Argo "water down the concept," he gives no proof of it. He can't, because none exists. So what does MOTA have to stand on? Absolutely nothing other than his own selfish, stupid, and bigoted biases. He thinks his PERSONAL TASTES are the sole standard that ALL Superman fans should be forced to agree with, and to hell with anyone who might not view Superman the same way he does.
And therein lies the reason why MOTA has no right to call himself a Superman fan, no right to post on any MBs, and is thoroughly undeserving of respect. He has no use for anyone who doesn't think EXACTLY like him. I've seen people who liked the Byrne/Jurgens era and are still respectful of the past incarnations, and who've shown those who diagree with them respect. If MOTA was of that cloth, I would have no issue with him. But he has repeatedly gone after anyone who thinks differently from him, employing a lynch mob mentality and spreading lies and slander everywhere he goes. And for all his whining about how the "Silver Age fans are taking over and ruining everything," he then turns around and claims, "I hope one day that the post-Crisis fans take over and save the industry." (This is a comment he made over at the DC boards.) Now this is just hypocritical. It's not OK for people who like the older comics to be influenced by them, but it's the peak of brilliance for people who read the Byrne/Jurgens era-stuff to be influenced by it. By making these claims, MOTA forfeits any rights to be respected as a fan. He's inciting hatred against one group of fans solely to put his own group in power. So tell me, who's being the big baby who needs to go stand in the corner and suck his thumb? The guy who respects all the incarnations of Superman even though he likes some better than others, or the hateful, egotistical zealot who flames and attacks anybody who doesn't think the Byrne/Jurgens era is holy writ or who might think the prior incarnations were worthwhile?
And to ask your question, Mxy, going by MOTA's standards, you don't like Superman. Going by my standards, on the other hand, you do. You and I just have differing tastes. But unlike MOTA, I don't see that as cause for open warfare.
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