quote:
Originally posted by KMT:
You say you want a more human Batman. Has Batman ever been more human than in The Killing Joke?
yes. all the time.

lemme ask you a question. yer human, right? (ok, another question). how would you react if you were constantly chasing around this looney guy whom you wanted to try to rehabilitate, but instead, he crippled your partner, murdered another, and kidnapped/tortured your best friend?

the more "human reaction," to me, is to go nutty with pent up rage and lash out at the criminal, not to share one-liners while waiting for the police.

again, i understand the purpose of TKJ's story (and think its wonderful, btw), but i'm not particularly fond of how it relates to being a direct batman story.


quote:
Originally posted by KMT:
The uber Bat from Morrison's JLA wouldn't have laughed. I don't really see how he's unfeeling either.
morrison's batman, whom i love, would have more than likely devastated the joker, healed babs, then re-opened that abandoned circus for kids of all ages.

his batman i love because he's inspirational (on an imaginary and relative basis, not to myself)

but its loeb's batman who has the feelings of rage, falters slightly by letting them get the best of him, then forcibly relents, trying his best to remember he's the good guy, and can't permit himself such acts.

human.

quote:
Originally posted by KMT:
Loeb killed Superman. Dini is like one of three people (Donner and Puzo being the others) who's ever really gotten Superman right.
the important phrase to add, here, is "to you." i find that both of them gave superman and batman a wonderfully human quality i've not seen equalled, and one that i find necessary to an enjoyable character.

quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
As for Loeb's Batman (pre-"Hush"), I think he was trying to achieve a middle ground between the one-note sameness of the 1986-current Batman and the humanity of the 1940-1986 version. And I think he succeeded, making Batman somber and depressed without making him a jerk.
yeah, i think loeb (as well as dini) are great at picking the portions of the character they've enjoyed over the years, and combining them to form an updated, current version.

all that said...

the dark knight returns is still my all time favorite book (suffixes like "comic" and "batman" need not apply).

noticeably darker and heavier than loeb or dini's batman, of course, but no where near the demonic mennace attributed with the style or time period (due to the 80s-90s bastardizations of these takes).

miller's dark knight had just as many human qualities about him, allbeit experienced from the opposite side of the spectrum.